Its like Hillary walking into a working class kitchen for the first time.

They’ve been shielded from even critical support of China and other AES for so long they literally, not figuratively, literally cannot process that people exist that have beliefs that aren’t Reddit Approved. They immediately assume it’s bots or wumao. Human beings can’t possibly hold these beliefs, so they must be Oriental hordes or actual robots.

  • puff [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    To the Lemmy libs in North America: China is going to kick your shit in.

    To the Lemmy libs in Europe: Russia is going to kick your shit in.

    And it’s fucking glorious.

          • SeventyTwoTrillion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            are there? shit. I’ll support Cuba’s offensive to liberate both Ukrainian and Russian territory from these countries and institute state socialism from now on then, what villages are they starting it from?

            apologies for the snark, I just personally cannot see a future where NATO/Ukraine wins and things are better, but I can see a future where Russia wins and things are better, and drawing an equivalence between them because both countries are led by moronic oligarchs and supporting some secret third thing just feels like when communists are like “Actually, I don’t support either America or China and Russia. I support the global working class who needs to organize and overthrow the bourgeoisie!” is just like, yeah, you’re technically correct, but we’ve also been saying that for the last century now and it hasn’t happened, and the powers fighting America seem like the best shot we have right now of creating the conditions for the working class to institute that global revolution

            • radiofreeval [she/her]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              What future is that? I cannot see this war changing anything for the better. I don’t think anybody’s lives (except for the bourgeoisie’s) improved due to this war. The nazis are getting more funding and support, people are getting conscripted, leftist parties are being banned, homes are getting shelled and countless working class peoples lives have been destroyed. Russia seems very far from a revolution, being a quasi-fascist dictatorship who’s only major challenge is the equally far-right Wagner group.

                • radiofreeval [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  I don’t know if it will. I suppose Russia’s policy in Niger weakens Western Hegemony in Africa, but Russia never challenges capitalist hegemony. I can’t see what the material impacts on the global south would be if Russia had slightly more territory. Besides, if Russia wins, they will be feared. This fear would only serve to expedite NATO expansion. I can’t see a future where Russia wins and things are better than they were pre-war.

                  • FakeNewsForDogs [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    Multipolarity I think is what people are hoping for here. Not having a single capitalist power so invincible that it can control the world unilaterally.

                    It would ostensibly allow smaller countries to play the larger powers off each other and extract some concessions for one. Just the very fact of having other options provides at least some leverage and makes development and security more likely. And if any of those alternatives are less bloodthirsty and exploitative than the US (how could they not be?), so much the better.

                    You’re right that none of this is a direct confrontation of capitalism, but even just as a demonstration that other nations can stand up to the US, perhaps with the help of a competing capitalist power, this war can (maybe already has) bolstered resistance to the worst of imperialism. It’s not global communism but it’s a step in the right direction, or at least a step away from complete subjugation to a single globe spanning hegemon.

                    So, emboldening for the global south at least. And perhaps it coalesces into a broader post-post-colonial movement at some point. Who’s to say. Hard to imagine any shift in the global balance of power away from the west right now being a bad thing anyway.

                    The war itself is of course a disaster and tragedy for everyone involved. But on a purely geopolitical level, I think there’s a real possibility that it ends up benefiting the global proletariat going forward.

                  • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    I think it’s pretty evident that the western hegemony has already been greatly weakened by the conflict. While it’s true Russia isn’t trying to weaken capitalism, capitalist hegemony is a completely separate issue - Russia’s actions are weakening western hegemony. Capitalism is a domino later in the chain. Africa breaking the neocolonial chains and hopefully being able to develop itself into the economic powerhouse it could be will be a massive boon to everywhere that isn’t The West, because it’s a new market and trading partner that doesn’t require westerners to get their cut.

                    As far as the global south, the benefits don’t really have anything to do with Russia getting more territory. The benefits are about demonstrating western weapons and tactics to be paper tigers, showing how shallow western weapons supplies are and how slow and unproductive western military industrial complexes are. It’s also showing the value of western promises of military support - Taiwan and every other western vassal are surely watching this. The conflict is bleeding NATO resources dry, which is the reverse of what NATO hoped they would be getting out of this. The exposure of the west’s weakness is what benefits the global south and the rest of the planet.

                    I think it’s certainly true that Russia is now and will be feared in Europe, but that ship had already sailed. The US is doing as much economic warfare against Europe as they are Russia, and Europe is the one seriously damaged by it. America also started that warfare before this conflict expanded in 2022 - trying to cut Russia out of the European market has always been important for the US State Department. Europe has lost their energy sovereignty and is now undergoing shock doctrine style de-industrialization. It’s not going to matter what Europe thinks about Russia as they get increasingly economically hobbled and poorer. The rest of the world however doesn’t share Europe or America’s view of Russia, so this is not really any loss for Russia geopolitically. In South America and Africa, for example, Russia is largely viewed positively. The people of the world know whose heel is on their necks - it’s not Russia’s.

          • puff [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            You know, when those ‘sections’ make up an enormous chunk of the whole, including members of the military leadership, it’s more of a problem than you think it is.

        • Discola@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Believing that modern Russia is socialist or communist and not a plutocracy run by a handful of oligarchs is cringe.

          • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            You’re more than a decade late about the oligarchs in Russia, they no longer wield the power they used to. American oligarchs have much more influence on our government than Russian wealthy do now.

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              1 year ago

              I guess it depends on whether or not you think Putin is an oligarch as he’s seized power from many of them and placed it under himself, the same power under fewer oligarchs isn’t better.

              The wealthy definitely have too much control over the US government, and many of them should probably be executed for treason.

                • Discola@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  If Bill Gates were elected president would he cease to be an oligarch? If Joe Biden used his powers as president to take personal control over large portions of the country’s industry to enrich himself would that not make him an oligarch?

                  • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    I guess you think kings were oligarchs too? Oligarchs are not in the government but exert undue influence on it. If they’re in the state then they’re just state actors in some form or another.

          • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Weird how every time a lib comes back with “well this thing you believe is stupid!” it’s always some deranged thing they made up and at least half the time projection

            • Discola@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Haha you’re right, I just felt like using oligarchs and oligarchy in the same sentence was repetitive, and I like to imagine a system run by planetoids in deep space.

      • GaveUp [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Finally somebody has the correct take

        Supporting Russia, as well as Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Palestine, any capitalist state against the West is Uber first to die in a Fortnite battle royale round cringe