I’m getting the feeling there’s a bit of dunning-kruger going on here, and that it was unfair of me to be quite so glib about this in my initial comment. A short overview of why it’s Not That Simple:
There’s the huge issue of both ‘volunteer personal liability’ and ‘convention liability for enforcement.’ You can’t have your volunteers handling 250-500-1000 people’s IDs (one hazbin panel was in a 2000 seat room and still overflowed whoops), and the con really doesn’t want to take on the liability that would come with enforcing ID checks. It’s why cons with beer gardens have outside (usually facility-provided) staff to manage them, they don’t just use their own crew, you actually need training to deal with that. And then, if the con is enforcing age requirements they open themselves up to be sued for failing to enforce it (and causing ‘emotional distress’ to a panel viewer that was uncomfortable, this is a real example I had to deal with, it was even more stupid than it sounds) or lawsuits for unfair discrimination when someone who looks 14, but is in fact 20, is denied entry by a frazzled and overworked volunteer.
And then logistically: you don’t want your volunteers fielding all the complaints at the door, people won’t be able to get in or you’ll run out of volunteers. This isn’t a concert venue or a club, these things are huge and are the most complex crowd management scenarios that exist after Disney World. There’s no expansion of a line like you get with security checks outside of panel rooms because convention centers are designed to make movement of people from spaces as efficient as possible. Introducing artificial bottlenecks into spaces like that will not only impede foot traffic and violate fire codes, it can be actively dangerous. Introducing excessive foot traffic for avenues not designed to handle peak loads like that sets up a perfect crush situation, and it absolutely has to be discussed with the venue beforehand to see if it’s even legal.
These aren’t insurmountable problems, but they are large problems that come on top of a million other ones. A convention’s resources are much better spent managing problems, not creating new (and potentially very severe) ones for themselves.
You really don’t know anything about this topic and you’re responding both defensively and very insultingly because you treat a response that is even mildly critical as personal attack, as the realization that you don’t really understand the topic at hand causes you to cement your prior position (since we as a species don’t easily admit fault) and because casting yourself as fundamentally superior to the person you disagree with not only helps with the aforesaid cementing but also allows you to assuage the feeling of insecurity that comes with the also aforesaid realization of fault by giving yourself a sense of reassuringly fundamental supremacy over those who might cause you to suffer the mental anguish of self-reflection?
That’s the only way I can figure out how you’d feel justified in making a comment that is both rude and plainly shows you misunderstood what you’re responding to. Lmfao, I agree with you. I even say that in the comment you’re replying to. Calm down.
Let’s be clear, opening with a dunning Kruger callout is rude. No one is an expert here, everyone is anonymous. It’s 100% unidan/jackdaw energy.
Further, I didn’t read your wall of text because nothing other than consent matters. If the performers are uncomfortable, I don’t care if they need the fuckin national guard to facilitate ID checks. I care nothing about the hurdles involved.
The whole schtick here is le redditor and I’ll stick with the simple “consent established, or leave”.
… I’m sorry, you’re attacking my argument based on what you think I might have said? And you’re continuing to belittle me/my attempt to actually engage with you on the topic at hand because…?
Yeah and in the same sentence I apologized for being excessively glib. Come on. How would you have preferred I say this, “Hey you really painfully clearly don’t know what you’re talking about, here’s why you’re wrong”?. While that’s obviously a sarcastic extreme we both know that any other approach I took that contradicted what you were saying would have lead to the same hyperdefensive redoubling of your positions that you’re doing right now. You’re even still obsessing about saying ‘consent is important’, when it’s got nothing to do with the discussion at hand here. I’m sure glad you know the word, but what does it mean? Genuinely, sincerely, explain your point to me. Because right now it appears to be “Conventions shouldn’t have adult panels if they’re unwilling to police the age of the participants to ensure their panelists are comfortable” and yeah, no shit sherlock.That’s why we don’t have very many adult panels. Wanna know what the challenges to ensuring consent / comfort are? Read my earlier post where I elaborated on the topic and apologized for initially dismissing your comment.
Jesus fucking christ, while ignorance isn’t shameful, choosing to stay ignorant because of your ego sure fucking is.
Apologizing after the fact can’t erase y response, unless you’d prefer I go back and edit.
My dude I don’t know shit other than consent is king. Does that admission appease you? The performers are uncomfortable and I care nothing about any real world limitations of the panel tour circuit. If they can’t do it right don’t do it at all. Volunteers or negative guest interactions are meaningless
Enjoy your win, you’re clearly so learned on the topic, leave me alone
Uh… yeah, actually, it does. Being able to admit ignorance or fault, even begrudgingly, is an often insurmountable obstacle in any human interaction.
I’m not doing this to win an argument or something similar. I’m doing this to explain a topic that’s important to me, to someone that can negatively impact said topic by jumping to conclusions. Conclusions which, to anyone not familiar with the topic, would appear totally reasonable. Even though in this case we’re even in agreement, knowing the complexities of a topic is important to growth and understanding as an individual.
I’m getting the feeling there’s a bit of dunning-kruger going on here, and that it was unfair of me to be quite so glib about this in my initial comment. A short overview of why it’s Not That Simple:
There’s the huge issue of both ‘volunteer personal liability’ and ‘convention liability for enforcement.’ You can’t have your volunteers handling 250-500-1000 people’s IDs (one hazbin panel was in a 2000 seat room and still overflowed whoops), and the con really doesn’t want to take on the liability that would come with enforcing ID checks. It’s why cons with beer gardens have outside (usually facility-provided) staff to manage them, they don’t just use their own crew, you actually need training to deal with that. And then, if the con is enforcing age requirements they open themselves up to be sued for failing to enforce it (and causing ‘emotional distress’ to a panel viewer that was uncomfortable, this is a real example I had to deal with, it was even more stupid than it sounds) or lawsuits for unfair discrimination when someone who looks 14, but is in fact 20, is denied entry by a frazzled and overworked volunteer.
And then logistically: you don’t want your volunteers fielding all the complaints at the door, people won’t be able to get in or you’ll run out of volunteers. This isn’t a concert venue or a club, these things are huge and are the most complex crowd management scenarios that exist after Disney World. There’s no expansion of a line like you get with security checks outside of panel rooms because convention centers are designed to make movement of people from spaces as efficient as possible. Introducing artificial bottlenecks into spaces like that will not only impede foot traffic and violate fire codes, it can be actively dangerous. Introducing excessive foot traffic for avenues not designed to handle peak loads like that sets up a perfect crush situation, and it absolutely has to be discussed with the venue beforehand to see if it’s even legal.
These aren’t insurmountable problems, but they are large problems that come on top of a million other ones. A convention’s resources are much better spent managing problems, not creating new (and potentially very severe) ones for themselves.
Lol what the fuck this is the most “well actually” I’ve ever seen.
Consent trumps all. If the performers are uncomfortable, it doesn’t matter how challenging the customer dynamic is.
If you hold an event, get the proper staff to keep your entertainers supported. Or don’t do it.
Concerts ID people all the time. The staff are available. Don’t act like this is some yet unheard-of Herculean task.
Just a guess here:
You really don’t know anything about this topic and you’re responding both defensively and very insultingly because you treat a response that is even mildly critical as personal attack, as the realization that you don’t really understand the topic at hand causes you to cement your prior position (since we as a species don’t easily admit fault) and because casting yourself as fundamentally superior to the person you disagree with not only helps with the aforesaid cementing but also allows you to assuage the feeling of insecurity that comes with the also aforesaid realization of fault by giving yourself a sense of reassuringly fundamental supremacy over those who might cause you to suffer the mental anguish of self-reflection?
That’s the only way I can figure out how you’d feel justified in making a comment that is both rude and plainly shows you misunderstood what you’re responding to. Lmfao, I agree with you. I even say that in the comment you’re replying to. Calm down.
Let’s be clear, opening with a dunning Kruger callout is rude. No one is an expert here, everyone is anonymous. It’s 100% unidan/jackdaw energy.
Further, I didn’t read your wall of text because nothing other than consent matters. If the performers are uncomfortable, I don’t care if they need the fuckin national guard to facilitate ID checks. I care nothing about the hurdles involved.
The whole schtick here is le redditor and I’ll stick with the simple “consent established, or leave”.
… I’m sorry, you’re attacking my argument based on what you think I might have said? And you’re continuing to belittle me/my attempt to actually engage with you on the topic at hand because…?
As I said, you started with DK. How are you surprised I didn’t read further, and am unfriendly?
My point centered on consent, and someone sent me a dismissive opening on a long message. What’s to be done? Discard it.
Edit ZERO concerns are worth discussing if the consent of participants can’t be achieved.
Yeah and in the same sentence I apologized for being excessively glib. Come on. How would you have preferred I say this, “Hey you really painfully clearly don’t know what you’re talking about, here’s why you’re wrong”?. While that’s obviously a sarcastic extreme we both know that any other approach I took that contradicted what you were saying would have lead to the same hyperdefensive redoubling of your positions that you’re doing right now. You’re even still obsessing about saying ‘consent is important’, when it’s got nothing to do with the discussion at hand here. I’m sure glad you know the word, but what does it mean? Genuinely, sincerely, explain your point to me. Because right now it appears to be “Conventions shouldn’t have adult panels if they’re unwilling to police the age of the participants to ensure their panelists are comfortable” and yeah, no shit sherlock. That’s why we don’t have very many adult panels. Wanna know what the challenges to ensuring consent / comfort are? Read my earlier post where I elaborated on the topic and apologized for initially dismissing your comment.
Jesus fucking christ, while ignorance isn’t shameful, choosing to stay ignorant because of your ego sure fucking is.
Apologizing after the fact can’t erase y response, unless you’d prefer I go back and edit.
My dude I don’t know shit other than consent is king. Does that admission appease you? The performers are uncomfortable and I care nothing about any real world limitations of the panel tour circuit. If they can’t do it right don’t do it at all. Volunteers or negative guest interactions are meaningless
Enjoy your win, you’re clearly so learned on the topic, leave me alone
Uh… yeah, actually, it does. Being able to admit ignorance or fault, even begrudgingly, is an often insurmountable obstacle in any human interaction.
I’m not doing this to win an argument or something similar. I’m doing this to explain a topic that’s important to me, to someone that can negatively impact said topic by jumping to conclusions. Conclusions which, to anyone not familiar with the topic, would appear totally reasonable. Even though in this case we’re even in agreement, knowing the complexities of a topic is important to growth and understanding as an individual.