A saddening phenomenon that’s likely to happen if this continues … is people opening up about how they saw the decline way before the debate but presumed it was a “one off” or “bad night”. I think it’s already started somewhat.
But the picture that could emerge with pretty high clarity is that “the issue” was covered by an inner group and ignored by those peripherally exposed to it … all instead of the party preparing for it, preparing new potential candidates, and taking seriously the notion from Biden in 2020 that he wouldn’t run in 2024.
Losing to Trump a second time by sticking to a party elder is going to be a big deal (if it happens of course). It will probably look more like the Dems losing than trump winning, and it prob will look like the Dems allowing it all to happen out of hubris and stupidity, not unlike the RBG fuck up. Could seriously shake the party up?
And also the entire Hillary fiasco, where she barely campaigned in midwestern states. I wonder if they are truly so wealthy and disconnected as to literally not realize what is going on - for them, the economy is “fine” and so everything is hunky-dory, so if they plan on losing rather than put in someone that they don’t feel that they have as much control over as Biden, then… that might be the end of democracy. Heck, that SCOTUS ruling is already in the past now - maybe they are ready to end the fiction that our votes matter any longer?
Yea, that the term “Blue MAGA” has arisen out of this is kinda telling. Once you see it in the “Biden is our president, if you’re not voting for him you’re part of the problem” types, you can’t unsee it.
Oh yea Cult Jr is a real thing right now. Which I could life with IF IT WASN’T SO DAMN CLEAR BIDEN WILL NOT WIN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE no matter how much Blue Maga Cult Jr berates us. I’m voting for Joe if I have to ya dims, it isn’t who you have to convince and your cult Jr bullshit sure ain’t gonna.
Isn’t it funny how the Dem talking points often actively discourage people from voting for them? Reminds me of how church groups force people to proselytize, specifically to piss off those people, so they can come back to the church and be told ‘See? All those other people are bad, mean, and stupid. You belong here with us.’
Except the Dems are doing it to feed their personal moral or intellectual narcissism. It was never about getting votes for that type in the first place - they just wanna feel superior. Which is also why their talking points usually involve guilt trips or other sophistry/bad faith arguments - because they are using this as a proxy to enact narcissistic abuse. If Dems were forced to argue a real position, they would have to become leftists through that honest argumentation (reality has a leftwing bias). There’s a reason none of them are leftists (Dems are centrists). There are talking points from the 70s and 60s they could be picking up, progressive ideas like child care for all (which used to be something Republicans favored)- the point is to prevent progress while being as narcisstically proud of that as possible.
And truly, narcissism and moral degradation have really really really fucked up our country. And by moral degradation, I mean we’ve become a disrespectful country, almost no community (because we sold it for capital), abusive, and PROUD of that abuse. That’s the only way a man with 34 felonies, who’s raped numerous adult women AND CHILDREN INCLUDING A 12 YEAR OLD, could be a candidate for president.
If you’re not voting for “not Trump” then you are part of the problem. Lesser perhaps than the party refusing to replace an old man and the old man refusing to step down but the problem is and will remain conservatives(i.e. american “moderates”)and facism.
That “not Trump” doesn’t (and shouldn’t) have to be Biden. But in this shitty system we have that’s your choices. Sebile old man slowly degrading democracy or demented old man’s facist dictatorship. The democracy is always the better choice.
(1) the election isn’t for SEVERAL months from now, right now we cannot vote for anyone at all.
(2) part of the problem or not, it is a plain fact that many people won’t vote for Biden. Some of those likely will vote for Trump no matter what, while others may vote for someone else who is younger. The more Biden declines between now vs. the next few months, the more people will fall into this category. Especially if the worst should come to pass and he dies.
(3) the SCOTUS ruling is already in the past - we are already no longer a democracy, whatever name we use to describe the situation. Henceforth we have elected kings that are no longer bound by the collective Will of the People (after being elected), while Congress sells itself to the highest bidder in our plutocracy, thereby again ignoring the Will of the People, and since the Supreme Court also ignores the Will of the People, the fiction that we are a “democracy” is wearing thinner by the hour.
But we cannot control others, only ourselves, which is why it is important to do the right thing and put our absolute best foot forward. If you think Biden is doing that, like if he just has a cold and he’ll get over it soon (fingers crossed!) then great. Many others do not think that though, and again some subset of those will not vote for him, but who might otherwise vote for a Democratic candidate. Perhaps I’m wrong - we’ll see.
Democrats are conservative as well, just not as regressive or conservative as Republicans. Dems are right of center, especially if you compare left/right parties globally
I mean, I don’t think this old babbling windbag should be the candidate either.
But my thing is, who do the democrats even have to run in place of him? Kamala would lose in a landslide because this is the US and she’s a woman of color (not to mention a cop, so you lose both the left and the “centrist” closeted racist dems and anyone that was still somehow weighing a trump vote (they exist, somehow)), and everyone else in the party has limited appeal. Not to mention the incumbent advantage.
We shouldn’t be in this position, no matter what. But we are. And we have to face facts that giving up the standard white guy, which is the only kind of candidate that has ever won (except that one time, but that’s seeming more and more like a fluke) with the power of incumbency at his back is a massive gamble. We can’t afford Biden fucking this up as bad as he is. But I don’t know if we can afford a wildcard either, which is exactly what a totally different candidate would be.
Four years ago, his age was already a factor. We’ve had four years to build someone else up. Someone who is not even connected to the Gaza situation. Even as a backup option, just in case Biden were to have died, let’s say already by now. Four years. Four summers, four winters, four springs, four falls.
The conservatives tried and failed miserably, with Desantis, and Nikki Haley, etc. but the liberals… I don’t recall even so much as trying?
But we could - AOC, Buttigieg, Newsom - there are many to choose from (edit: we could even let them compete - a “debate” if you will - and then pick the best one!). Instead, it looks an awful lot like we are choosing either Trump, or even if Biden barely pulled it off, the numbers would not be convincing to the election deniers.
Just like in 2016, except somehow doubled down even more so, we choose to stick our heads in the sand and hope for the best, while putting forth zero effort to try to bring about a less-worse outcome? FAAFO I guess, bc we gotta keep going through this same scenario over and over again, until we either learn, or democracy itself gets taken from us by the grown-ups (meaning those willing to expend effort towards reaching their goals, though not necessarily the good guys, and to be clear in this case they are very very evil ones).
Their plan was Kamala. She was their backup option. She is young and the entire discussion when she was chosen was how she would be there when Biden steps down or backs out after four years like he said he was going to do. I’m not saying she was at all a good choice. She has too much baggage and nowhere near broad appeal. Is it pathetic that some of that has to do with her being a woman? And a woman of color at that? Of fucking course. But I don’t think the democrats even really acknowledge that out of fear of it ever being leaked that it was discussed and the news cycle being weeks of “dems racist.” Its performative bullshit. I think they desperately want to be the party to elect the first woman, and they were willing to back door her via Biden. But that’s a stupid plan that doesn’t get to the heart of the issue of our lack of diversity in executive politics.
But here we are, just like we had with Ginsberg. She was too stubborn to step down when she was clearly dying. And we got a lifetime appointment in Barrett. Now, Biden is refusing to step down and we’re about to get a lifetime sentence of emperor trump.
The trutly heart-breaking fact of all of this is that the election is breaking down along the lines of which flavor of fascism you want? Both sides also represent neoliberalism - one being the American form and the other being the more Russian variant.
I am starting to see the Yin & Yang of it all, and like Trump lies to people’s faces, yet in doing so he more honestly gives his particular base what they want (they are mean, vindictive, and crass, so taunting “Baby Killer!” is what they enjoy), while in contrast Biden at least tried to tell the truth, yet as you suggested in a manner as to selectively hide certain other inconvenient truths, but in so doing he failed to play to his own base. Biden from 20 years ago would have done amazing at this, it seems like. Whereas now… well, “he has a cold” (that will not end anytime in the next 5 years).
Dems are nowhere close to being “liberal”, but they really will lead the country better than the Russian transplanted culture that some are trying (successfully) to import. That is, if they can get elected, which the Blue Magas - like their red counterparts - are flat-out ignoring, seems less likely by the day.
Oh well, “We the People” have no say in any of this. Or at least, that is the story that we are being told, across all forms of social media, including, sadly, the Fediverse as well (I am surprised that your and my comment does not have tens of downvotes already - it seems like the brigade is getting fatigued and not willing to chase down every comment that expresses the slightest doubt about Biden and pounce upon it). So just like with RBG, and even more like Hillary 2016, we will see what happens, I guess!? Those who refuse to learn from their history are doomed to repeat it, “but I’m sure that everything will work out fine this time!” (/s, though genuinely would be true if interpreted as a statement of hope rather than certainty as it says)
Not just the RBG fuckup, but also them backing Hillary and openly saying they don’t have to hold fair primary elections re: Bernie, and they kinda fucked up with Gore too
A saddening phenomenon that’s likely to happen if this continues … is people opening up about how they saw the decline way before the debate but presumed it was a “one off” or “bad night”. I think it’s already started somewhat.
But the picture that could emerge with pretty high clarity is that “the issue” was covered by an inner group and ignored by those peripherally exposed to it … all instead of the party preparing for it, preparing new potential candidates, and taking seriously the notion from Biden in 2020 that he wouldn’t run in 2024.
Losing to Trump a second time by sticking to a party elder is going to be a big deal (if it happens of course). It will probably look more like the Dems losing than trump winning, and it prob will look like the Dems allowing it all to happen out of hubris and stupidity, not unlike the RBG fuck up. Could seriously shake the party up?
And also the entire Hillary fiasco, where she barely campaigned in midwestern states. I wonder if they are truly so wealthy and disconnected as to literally not realize what is going on - for them, the economy is “fine” and so everything is hunky-dory, so if they plan on losing rather than put in someone that they don’t feel that they have as much control over as Biden, then… that might be the end of democracy. Heck, that SCOTUS ruling is already in the past now - maybe they are ready to end the fiction that our votes matter any longer?
Yea, that the term “Blue MAGA” has arisen out of this is kinda telling. Once you see it in the “Biden is our president, if you’re not voting for him you’re part of the problem” types, you can’t unsee it.
Oh yea Cult Jr is a real thing right now. Which I could life with IF IT WASN’T SO DAMN CLEAR BIDEN WILL NOT WIN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE no matter how much Blue Maga Cult Jr berates us. I’m voting for Joe if I have to ya dims, it isn’t who you have to convince and your cult Jr bullshit sure ain’t gonna.
Isn’t it funny how the Dem talking points often actively discourage people from voting for them? Reminds me of how church groups force people to proselytize, specifically to piss off those people, so they can come back to the church and be told ‘See? All those other people are bad, mean, and stupid. You belong here with us.’
Except the Dems are doing it to feed their personal moral or intellectual narcissism. It was never about getting votes for that type in the first place - they just wanna feel superior. Which is also why their talking points usually involve guilt trips or other sophistry/bad faith arguments - because they are using this as a proxy to enact narcissistic abuse. If Dems were forced to argue a real position, they would have to become leftists through that honest argumentation (reality has a leftwing bias). There’s a reason none of them are leftists (Dems are centrists). There are talking points from the 70s and 60s they could be picking up, progressive ideas like child care for all (which used to be something Republicans favored)- the point is to prevent progress while being as narcisstically proud of that as possible.
And truly, narcissism and moral degradation have really really really fucked up our country. And by moral degradation, I mean we’ve become a disrespectful country, almost no community (because we sold it for capital), abusive, and PROUD of that abuse. That’s the only way a man with 34 felonies, who’s raped numerous adult women AND CHILDREN INCLUDING A 12 YEAR OLD, could be a candidate for president.
It disgusts me.
If you’re not voting for “not Trump” then you are part of the problem. Lesser perhaps than the party refusing to replace an old man and the old man refusing to step down but the problem is and will remain conservatives(i.e. american “moderates”)and facism.
That “not Trump” doesn’t (and shouldn’t) have to be Biden. But in this shitty system we have that’s your choices. Sebile old man slowly degrading democracy or demented old man’s facist dictatorship. The democracy is always the better choice.
(1) the election isn’t for SEVERAL months from now, right now we cannot vote for anyone at all.
(2) part of the problem or not, it is a plain fact that many people won’t vote for Biden. Some of those likely will vote for Trump no matter what, while others may vote for someone else who is younger. The more Biden declines between now vs. the next few months, the more people will fall into this category. Especially if the worst should come to pass and he dies.
(3) the SCOTUS ruling is already in the past - we are already no longer a democracy, whatever name we use to describe the situation. Henceforth we have elected kings that are no longer bound by the collective Will of the People (after being elected), while Congress sells itself to the highest bidder in our plutocracy, thereby again ignoring the Will of the People, and since the Supreme Court also ignores the Will of the People, the fiction that we are a “democracy” is wearing thinner by the hour.
But we cannot control others, only ourselves, which is why it is important to do the right thing and put our absolute best foot forward. If you think Biden is doing that, like if he just has a cold and he’ll get over it soon (fingers crossed!) then great. Many others do not think that though, and again some subset of those will not vote for him, but who might otherwise vote for a Democratic candidate. Perhaps I’m wrong - we’ll see.
Democrats are conservative as well, just not as regressive or conservative as Republicans. Dems are right of center, especially if you compare left/right parties globally
Yes, and they remain a problem but a hell of a lot less of one than Facists.
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I mean, I don’t think this old babbling windbag should be the candidate either.
But my thing is, who do the democrats even have to run in place of him? Kamala would lose in a landslide because this is the US and she’s a woman of color (not to mention a cop, so you lose both the left and the “centrist” closeted racist dems and anyone that was still somehow weighing a trump vote (they exist, somehow)), and everyone else in the party has limited appeal. Not to mention the incumbent advantage.
We shouldn’t be in this position, no matter what. But we are. And we have to face facts that giving up the standard white guy, which is the only kind of candidate that has ever won (except that one time, but that’s seeming more and more like a fluke) with the power of incumbency at his back is a massive gamble. We can’t afford Biden fucking this up as bad as he is. But I don’t know if we can afford a wildcard either, which is exactly what a totally different candidate would be.
Four years ago, his age was already a factor. We’ve had four years to build someone else up. Someone who is not even connected to the Gaza situation. Even as a backup option, just in case Biden were to have died, let’s say already by now. Four years. Four summers, four winters, four springs, four falls.
The conservatives tried and failed miserably, with Desantis, and Nikki Haley, etc. but the liberals… I don’t recall even so much as trying?
But we could - AOC, Buttigieg, Newsom - there are many to choose from (edit: we could even let them compete - a “debate” if you will - and then pick the best one!). Instead, it looks an awful lot like we are choosing either Trump, or even if Biden barely pulled it off, the numbers would not be convincing to the election deniers.
Just like in 2016, except somehow doubled down even more so, we choose to stick our heads in the sand and hope for the best, while putting forth zero effort to try to bring about a less-worse outcome? FAAFO I guess, bc we gotta keep going through this same scenario over and over again, until we either learn, or democracy itself gets taken from us by the grown-ups (meaning those willing to expend effort towards reaching their goals, though not necessarily the good guys, and to be clear in this case they are very very evil ones).
Their plan was Kamala. She was their backup option. She is young and the entire discussion when she was chosen was how she would be there when Biden steps down or backs out after four years like he said he was going to do. I’m not saying she was at all a good choice. She has too much baggage and nowhere near broad appeal. Is it pathetic that some of that has to do with her being a woman? And a woman of color at that? Of fucking course. But I don’t think the democrats even really acknowledge that out of fear of it ever being leaked that it was discussed and the news cycle being weeks of “dems racist.” Its performative bullshit. I think they desperately want to be the party to elect the first woman, and they were willing to back door her via Biden. But that’s a stupid plan that doesn’t get to the heart of the issue of our lack of diversity in executive politics.
But here we are, just like we had with Ginsberg. She was too stubborn to step down when she was clearly dying. And we got a lifetime appointment in Barrett. Now, Biden is refusing to step down and we’re about to get a lifetime sentence of emperor trump.
The trutly heart-breaking fact of all of this is that the election is breaking down along the lines of which flavor of fascism you want? Both sides also represent neoliberalism - one being the American form and the other being the more Russian variant.
I am starting to see the Yin & Yang of it all, and like Trump lies to people’s faces, yet in doing so he more honestly gives his particular base what they want (they are mean, vindictive, and crass, so taunting “Baby Killer!” is what they enjoy), while in contrast Biden at least tried to tell the truth, yet as you suggested in a manner as to selectively hide certain other inconvenient truths, but in so doing he failed to play to his own base. Biden from 20 years ago would have done amazing at this, it seems like. Whereas now… well, “he has a cold” (that will not end anytime in the next 5 years).
Dems are nowhere close to being “liberal”, but they really will lead the country better than the Russian transplanted culture that some are trying (successfully) to import. That is, if they can get elected, which the Blue Magas - like their red counterparts - are flat-out ignoring, seems less likely by the day.
Oh well, “We the People” have no say in any of this. Or at least, that is the story that we are being told, across all forms of social media, including, sadly, the Fediverse as well (I am surprised that your and my comment does not have tens of downvotes already - it seems like the brigade is getting fatigued and not willing to chase down every comment that expresses the slightest doubt about Biden and pounce upon it). So just like with RBG, and even more like Hillary 2016, we will see what happens, I guess!? Those who refuse to learn from their history are doomed to repeat it, “but I’m sure that everything will work out fine this time!” (/s, though genuinely would be true if interpreted as a statement of hope rather than certainty as it says)
Clooney said Biden isn’t the same man from 2020. Whatever is going on … never mind his age … is getting worse/more difficult to handle.
It’s time for him to recognise that.
Not just the RBG fuckup, but also them backing Hillary and openly saying they don’t have to hold fair primary elections re: Bernie, and they kinda fucked up with Gore too
The all-anti-Trump voters reasoning is that a 2 yo pot smoking chimpance would do better off. So they elect it.
I feel sorry for u americans, u’r truly fucked up anyways.