What are you talking about? The literal difference between a herb and a tree is the presence of wood. This isn’t referring to the culinary term for herb, it’s referring to the short version of the botanical term “herbaceous”, which are plants that aren’t lignified, aka they don’t have a woody stem like trees or shrubs do. The terms absolutely do have scientific meaning. Banana plants do not have woody stems, hence they are herbs, aka herbaceous plants. In general terms we call them trees, but in a botanical sense they aren’t the same thing.
But herbaceous plant, which is very often shortened to herb, does have a definition that VERY clearly sets them apart from trees. That isn’t pedantic just because you don’t like it.
Both tree and herb are so poorly defined the Wikipedia article on each opens with how they are poorly defined. Wikipedia is exactly the right resource for establishing common, outside of a technical context definitions and details.
Bro on the Wikipedia page for herbaceous the first line literally says:
Herbaceous plants are vascular plants that have no persistent woody stems above ground.
The ONE definition everyone can agree on is that herbs don’t have woody stems like trees do and that they are distinctly different from trees. Even in the definitions section where it notes differing definitions for herbs, all the definitions agree on herbs not having woody stems. Did you even read the page or just randomly claim you read it and just hoped I wouldn’t check?
Here’s also what the Wikipedia page for herbaceous plant says:
Herbaceous plants most often are low-growing plants, different from woody plants like trees and shrubs, tending to have soft green stems that lack lignification and their above-ground growth is ephemeral and often seasonal in duration.[14] By contrast, non-herbaceous vascular plants are woody plants that have stems above ground that remain alive, even during any dormant season, and grow shoots the next year from the above-ground parts – these include trees, shrubs, vines and woody bamboos. Banana plants are also regarded as herbaceous plants because the stem does not contain true woody tissue.[15]
Some herbaceous plants can grow rather large, such as the genus Musa, to which the banana belongs.
Wikipedia itself says, point blank, that bananas are herbaceous plants and that herbaceous plants are different from woody plants which include trees.
Here’s a wiki quote from the banana wiki page for good measure:
The banana plant is the largest herbaceous flowering plant.[10] All the above-ground parts of a banana plant grow from a structure usually called a “corm”.[11] Plants are normally tall and fairly sturdy with a treelike appearance, but what appears to be a trunk is actually a “false stem” or pseudostem.
And from the Musa genus page:
Musa is one of three genera in the family Musaceae. The genus includes 83 species of flowering plants producing edible bananas and plantains. Though they grow as high as trees, banana and plantain plants are not woody and their apparent “stem” is made up of the bases of the huge leaf stalks. Thus, they are technically gigantic herbaceous plants.
So if you’re going to use Wikipedia as your authority in the topic then Wikipedia is saying the exact same thing both I and this infographic have been saying.
In botany, a tree is a perennial plant with an elongated stem, or trunk, usually supporting branches and leaves. In some usages, the definition of a tree may be narrower, including only woody plants with secondary growth, plants that are usable as lumber or plants above a specified height. In wider definitions, the taller palms, tree ferns, bananas, and bamboos are also trees.
Literally says Bannaas are sometimes considered trees.
If you actually read the page instead of stopping at the line you thought agreed with you then you’d have seen that the same page says that banana plants are only considered trees in its “broadest sense” based on “common parlance.” Meaning people often call them trees because they look like trees even though they’re not actually trees. So in the the most generalized non-technical use of the word they could be considered a tree in the same way a child’s drawing of a brown scribble with a bigger green scribble on top can be called a tree. Fun fact, did you know that koala bears aren’t actually bears? Honey badgers aren’t actually badgers. Bearcats are neither bears, nor cats. Killer whales aren’t whales. Electric eels aren’t eels. Velvet ants aren’t ants. Things get named based on appearance all the time, but that doesn’t mean they are the same thing as what they look like and are named after. That’s why those names and terms are referred to as common/vernacular/colloquial. And lower on the same page your quote is from it says:
A commonly applied narrower definition is that a tree has a woody trunk formed by secondary growth, meaning that the trunk thickens each year by growing outwards, in addition to the primary upwards growth from the growing tip.[4][7] Under such a definition, herbaceous plants such as palms, bananas and papayas are not considered trees regardless of their height, growth form or stem girth.
You wanna know who they cited for that definition? Actual botanists. Wanna know what their citations on the broader definition had to say about banana plants? That they are herbaceous plants, and are only called trees because they have a “tree-like” appearance. Even the ones debating the definition of tree clarify that botanically bananas aren’t true trees. I can follow up with that if you want but that’ll be a long comment if I’m gonna go over the sources and their contents, because some of them are heftier than others.
When they say “trees aren’t well defined even in botany” they don’t mean “banana plants can be considered trees in some botanical definitions”. Botanically, banana plants are not trees. The debate in botany is based on stuff like whether trees have a primary trunk, or rings, or if they have to be a singular entity, etc. That complicates the definition of tree in reference to shrubs vs trees, or clonal organisms like pando vs singular trees, sure, but bananas are not in question on that front. They don’t even have an actual stem above ground most of the time, what we think of as the stem is just a bunch of leaves wrapped up together. Hence why it’s called a pseudostem.
I named several Wikipedia pages, including 2 focused specifically on banana plants and their genus, which say that the banana plant is not a tree botanically. I can even list more Wikipedia pages that specify the difference between trees and herbaceous plants in a way that wouldn’t include banana plants if you want. But you found a couple of lines on one page, talking about the broadest non-botanical use of the term, and you’re clinging to that one like gospel. So apparently you don’t actually view Wikipedia as The Right Resource™ unless it’s a specific line that agrees with you.
What are you talking about? The literal difference between a herb and a tree is the presence of wood. This isn’t referring to the culinary term for herb, it’s referring to the short version of the botanical term “herbaceous”, which are plants that aren’t lignified, aka they don’t have a woody stem like trees or shrubs do. The terms absolutely do have scientific meaning. Banana plants do not have woody stems, hence they are herbs, aka herbaceous plants. In general terms we call them trees, but in a botanical sense they aren’t the same thing.
Tree doesn’t have a single definition, and using herb here is misleading. More, it just makes the point that it’s just a bunch of pedantic gotchas.
But herbaceous plant, which is very often shortened to herb, does have a definition that VERY clearly sets them apart from trees. That isn’t pedantic just because you don’t like it.
Both tree and herb are so poorly defined the Wikipedia article on each opens with how they are poorly defined. Wikipedia is exactly the right resource for establishing common, outside of a technical context definitions and details.
Bro on the Wikipedia page for herbaceous the first line literally says:
The ONE definition everyone can agree on is that herbs don’t have woody stems like trees do and that they are distinctly different from trees. Even in the definitions section where it notes differing definitions for herbs, all the definitions agree on herbs not having woody stems. Did you even read the page or just randomly claim you read it and just hoped I wouldn’t check?
Here’s also what the Wikipedia page for herbaceous plant says:
Wikipedia itself says, point blank, that bananas are herbaceous plants and that herbaceous plants are different from woody plants which include trees.
Here’s a wiki quote from the banana wiki page for good measure:
And from the Musa genus page:
So if you’re going to use Wikipedia as your authority in the topic then Wikipedia is saying the exact same thing both I and this infographic have been saying.
From the page on trees
Literally says Bannaas are sometimes considered trees.
If you actually read the page instead of stopping at the line you thought agreed with you then you’d have seen that the same page says that banana plants are only considered trees in its “broadest sense” based on “common parlance.” Meaning people often call them trees because they look like trees even though they’re not actually trees. So in the the most generalized non-technical use of the word they could be considered a tree in the same way a child’s drawing of a brown scribble with a bigger green scribble on top can be called a tree. Fun fact, did you know that koala bears aren’t actually bears? Honey badgers aren’t actually badgers. Bearcats are neither bears, nor cats. Killer whales aren’t whales. Electric eels aren’t eels. Velvet ants aren’t ants. Things get named based on appearance all the time, but that doesn’t mean they are the same thing as what they look like and are named after. That’s why those names and terms are referred to as common/vernacular/colloquial. And lower on the same page your quote is from it says:
You wanna know who they cited for that definition? Actual botanists. Wanna know what their citations on the broader definition had to say about banana plants? That they are herbaceous plants, and are only called trees because they have a “tree-like” appearance. Even the ones debating the definition of tree clarify that botanically bananas aren’t true trees. I can follow up with that if you want but that’ll be a long comment if I’m gonna go over the sources and their contents, because some of them are heftier than others.
When they say “trees aren’t well defined even in botany” they don’t mean “banana plants can be considered trees in some botanical definitions”. Botanically, banana plants are not trees. The debate in botany is based on stuff like whether trees have a primary trunk, or rings, or if they have to be a singular entity, etc. That complicates the definition of tree in reference to shrubs vs trees, or clonal organisms like pando vs singular trees, sure, but bananas are not in question on that front. They don’t even have an actual stem above ground most of the time, what we think of as the stem is just a bunch of leaves wrapped up together. Hence why it’s called a pseudostem.
I named several Wikipedia pages, including 2 focused specifically on banana plants and their genus, which say that the banana plant is not a tree botanically. I can even list more Wikipedia pages that specify the difference between trees and herbaceous plants in a way that wouldn’t include banana plants if you want. But you found a couple of lines on one page, talking about the broadest non-botanical use of the term, and you’re clinging to that one like gospel. So apparently you don’t actually view Wikipedia as The Right Resource™ unless it’s a specific line that agrees with you.
So pedantic, gotcha.
Did a banana plant kill your family or something? This is the silliest hill to die on I’ve ever seen.