They blew up the death star! That was full of people. Thousands and thousands of soldiers and engineers, pilots etc. We all cheered. Id say it was pretty morally questionable.
Isn’t the death star specifically a military spaceship? You can’t just choose not to fire at a battleship just because there are engineers who won’t personally shoot at you in it.
I’ve had this argument with people before. It was a military installation so a viable target by the rules of war, you don’t need to be a combatant to be in the military. Even when they upgraded to an entire planet as a weapon they still only ever show military personnel being located there. Meanwhile the empire demonstrably killed civilians when they blew up entire planets.
Of course it’s all a bit arbitrary because people have just decided for themselves that it wasn’t purely a military installation, and that it had civilians and children onboard, even though they never showed that.
I think you can blame Star Trek for that view. TNG often showed families about the Enterprise whereas the original TV show was strictly ‘military’ in function. I’m old enough to have seen the OG Star Wars in theater, the Death Star was purely military. Anyone that died on it was a soldier.
A slight older real world conflict that people are forgetting was the Irish Republican Army vs the British Army. Lots of bombings that killed civilians by the IRA. The Brits tried to not kill civilians, and they mostly succeeded. But they were still often viewed as the baddies.
Revolutionaries are very often a morally dark group. They are often willing to go above and beyond to justify killing to achieve their goals. But historically sometimes, it appears to a necessary thing to do so.
Edited for extra words - drink more tea before typing I guess
It’s not a space ship, it’s a space station. Obi Wan says so. Yes, it’s a space station that flies around like a ship. Why does that not make it a ship? Fuck if I know, ask George Lucas.
We aren’t speaking about employee in an hydroelectric dam. Even if both took part in an the economy of an oppressive system, one give electricity, the other mass murder. If they do not agree with, they think that taking part in this crime give them more chance than deserting.
Whenever You Gamble, My Friend, Eventually You’ll Lose.
Depends though doesn’t it. Was it conscription or voluntary. Some of those military were forced to join the empire or have their planets blown up. Obviously many were zealots but im sure if it wasnt for vader, many of the soldiers wouldnt have joined.
When it comes to people being forced into the military is it still fair game?
I can only speak for myself but yes even being conscripted would put you in the fair game category.
If I am given the choice between slaughtering others or risking being shot in the back as I run away, I’m going to take the risk of getting shot.
Someone will now come in and call me a liar and I really don’t mind. I do put the value of others lives above mine on a regular basis. Volunteer firefighters do it every day.
[Edited to remove unnecessary crudeness. Old habits die hard.]
No, the Empire only recently gained the ability to blow up planets. No one joined under threat of their planet being blown up.
And yes, conscripts are fair game. Unless they A) rebel against their commanders and/or B) immediately surrender. As long as they keep running the death machine, they are culpable.
Ok, i was trying to make a joke to diffuse what was clearly an attempt to argue with me in a serious way about something that i was only arguing in a light-hearted way.
I dont agree with you that someone being forced to join a military makes them exempt from any moral consideration when trying to determine whether to blow up a space station they are on.
What choice would you have made if you had a gun to your head?
They are serving in the Empire’s Army, so yes. Despite the fact that they were conscripted. If they didn’t want to be killed, they should have organized a massive uprising against their leaders and surrendered the Death Star to the rebel scum.
Great film. I always considered the contracters to be closer to slave labourers. The empire took prisoners, if personal politics would get in the way then a laser gun would surely convince anyone unwilling to help.
They blew up the death star! That was full of people. Thousands and thousands of soldiers and engineers, pilots etc. We all cheered. Id say it was pretty morally questionable.
Isn’t the death star specifically a military spaceship? You can’t just choose not to fire at a battleship just because there are engineers who won’t personally shoot at you in it.
I’ve had this argument with people before. It was a military installation so a viable target by the rules of war, you don’t need to be a combatant to be in the military. Even when they upgraded to an entire planet as a weapon they still only ever show military personnel being located there. Meanwhile the empire demonstrably killed civilians when they blew up entire planets.
Of course it’s all a bit arbitrary because people have just decided for themselves that it wasn’t purely a military installation, and that it had civilians and children onboard, even though they never showed that.
I think you can blame Star Trek for that view. TNG often showed families about the Enterprise whereas the original TV show was strictly ‘military’ in function. I’m old enough to have seen the OG Star Wars in theater, the Death Star was purely military. Anyone that died on it was a soldier.
A slight older real world conflict that people are forgetting was the Irish Republican Army vs the British Army. Lots of bombings that killed civilians by the IRA. The Brits tried to not kill civilians, and they mostly succeeded. But they were still often viewed as the baddies.
Revolutionaries are very often a morally dark group. They are often willing to go above and beyond to justify killing to achieve their goals. But historically sometimes, it appears to a necessary thing to do so.
Edited for extra words - drink more tea before typing I guess
yes. it’s akin to blow up an aircraft carrier.
It’s not a space ship, it’s a space station. Obi Wan says so. Yes, it’s a space station that flies around like a ship. Why does that not make it a ship? Fuck if I know, ask George Lucas.
They blew up an enemy military ship that had already destroyed a peaceful planet and was in the process of killing them.
Nice try
Which presents the dilemma perfectly. Decision to destroy the planet was made by a higher-up, thus do all Death Star “employees” deserve to die?
We aren’t speaking about employee in an hydroelectric dam. Even if both took part in an the economy of an oppressive system, one give electricity, the other mass murder. If they do not agree with, they think that taking part in this crime give them more chance than deserting.
Whenever You Gamble, My Friend, Eventually You’ll Lose.
They are military, not employees. Fair game.
Depends though doesn’t it. Was it conscription or voluntary. Some of those military were forced to join the empire or have their planets blown up. Obviously many were zealots but im sure if it wasnt for vader, many of the soldiers wouldnt have joined.
When it comes to people being forced into the military is it still fair game?
I can only speak for myself but yes even being conscripted would put you in the fair game category.
If I am given the choice between slaughtering others or risking being shot in the back as I run away, I’m going to take the risk of getting shot.
Someone will now come in and call me a liar and I really don’t mind. I do put the value of others lives above mine on a regular basis. Volunteer firefighters do it every day.
[Edited to remove unnecessary crudeness. Old habits die hard.]
No, the Empire only recently gained the ability to blow up planets. No one joined under threat of their planet being blown up.
And yes, conscripts are fair game. Unless they A) rebel against their commanders and/or B) immediately surrender. As long as they keep running the death machine, they are culpable.
Only a sith deals in absolutes!
That’s not an absolute system. It’s a system where a person’s culpability is determined by their actions.
Ok, i was trying to make a joke to diffuse what was clearly an attempt to argue with me in a serious way about something that i was only arguing in a light-hearted way.
I dont agree with you that someone being forced to join a military makes them exempt from any moral consideration when trying to determine whether to blow up a space station they are on.
What choice would you have made if you had a gun to your head?
They are serving in the Empire’s Army, so yes. Despite the fact that they were conscripted. If they didn’t want to be killed, they should have organized a massive uprising against their leaders and surrendered the Death Star to the rebel scum.
And Mr Stevens, the head of catering.
You know Mr Stevens?
Geoff Vader said he could kill him with a tray.
RIP.
Yea but it’s never mentioned ! Might have well been an unmanned satellite
Well, it certainly wasn’t a moon!
😂😂😂
“I’ll bet there were independent contractors working on that thing: plumbers, aluminum siders, roofers.”
Great film. I always considered the contracters to be closer to slave labourers. The empire took prisoners, if personal politics would get in the way then a laser gun would surely convince anyone unwilling to help.
a lot of em were just contractors