“Gun trace data is kept out of public view by a rider to a Congressional bill known as the “Tiahrt Amendment,” passed in 2003 to shield gun shops from scrutiny. Each year, the ATF provides a count of the guns recovered in Mexico that had been bought in the U.S., with no further details.”
Nothing to do with the Mexican govt. The US govt passed a law in 2003 to prevent gun sale data from being public record. This includes sales of firearms eventually used in armed conflicts in Mexico.
I’m interested to know how the Mexican Government, who also had / has the trace data, is bound by the Tiahart Amendment.
I know it’s going to be an unpopular opinion but I really see no problem with the Tiahart Amendment shielding Firearms Manufacturers and Gun Stores. The Manufacturers are already regulated and monitored directly by the Federal Government and Gun Stores can only make sales in compliance with Federal Law. They should not be culpable in either Criminal or Civil court for that reason. The truth is that most of the organization who want that data aren’t working in Good Faith and only want it so they can launch lawsuits meant to force Manufacturers and Sellers out of business.
It gets even worse at the individual level. There is absolutely zero cause for firearm transaction records to an individual to be publicly available. It’s not only a gross violation of privacy but it’s also a security concern.
What you SHOULD be mad about is why the BATFE, who clearly and provably does have this data, isn’t doing something with it. They already know literally everything in this article and yet they don’t seem to be doing much about it. Why?
I can be both mad that this data isn’t public record and that the BATFE aren’t doing their jobs.
I would disagree that there’s zero reason for this data to be public record. I’d agree with you if we were just shielding individuals who are purchasing like one handgun or something. That’s something that I don’t think is anyone else’s business. But if a dude is buying 95 semi-automatic rifles in a short period of time you bet your ass I think that should be public knowledge. No one should be able to secretly purchase enough firearms to arm a small militia.
That’s a huge risk for robbery and basically just asking for trouble. Shit tier idea to make that public knowledge tbh. Criminal doesn’t have a gun? Good thing they can just find someone that does. Already have one? Then they rob someone with 30 and put the guns onto the black market (still registered to the previous owner.)
Aren’t you forgetting something? Every gun owner is a super cool action hero and if anyone tries to break into their house they’ll be all “blam blam blam” and they’ll be able to turn on their wives again.
The answer has been given over and over again but it doesn’t meet the pro-gun communities deliberately impossible standards. Why bother answering it yet again?
But if a dude is buying 95 semi-automatic rifles in a short period of time you bet your ass I think that should be public knowledge.
I disagree, I really don’t see why it’s any business of the PUBLIC (nor is there anything you could do about it.) But hold on…
No one should be able to secretly purchase enough firearms to arm a small malitia.
That’s the thing, it’s NOT “secret”. The FBI and the BATFE both know they are just choosing not to do anything about it. I mean they literally KNOW, and not in some vague / abstract manner that is time delayed. They know in near real time that one purchaser has submitted a 4473 with multiple firearms on it and they also know if a single purchaser submits multiple form 4473s.
So when Craig Adlong was showing up to the Gun Store and buying 15,16,17 Rifles at a time multiple times a week both the BATFE and the FBI KNEW and chose not to do anything. They could have delayed or denied any of the transfers (sales) and / or sent out a Field Agent to figure out what was going on. They didn’t.
This is the foundation of my “The public doesn’t need to know” argument when it comes to individuals. Assuming the Gun Store is complying with Federal Law then this isn’t happening in secret. At least two different Federal Law Enforcement Agencies know about it.
Would you argue the public has elected officials who write policy and hire enforcers to govern arms, so we have a pathway to preventing illegal arms deals even if it’s not via the direct publication of details of original purchasers?
I can see tradeoffs here. I can imagine the security and harassment concern. I could also envision public benefit where our officials fail us but investigative reporters pick up the slack and shine light on specific problematic sales, leading to outcry and subsequently improved enforcement.
Perhaps illegal sales are a top NRA priority since these discussions involve some dangerous thinking from their perspective. If not, hope so, sounds win win.
They passed a law requiring the Mexican Government to keep it private? Fascinating…tell me more!
Per the linked article.
“Gun trace data is kept out of public view by a rider to a Congressional bill known as the “Tiahrt Amendment,” passed in 2003 to shield gun shops from scrutiny. Each year, the ATF provides a count of the guns recovered in Mexico that had been bought in the U.S., with no further details.”
Nothing to do with the Mexican govt. The US govt passed a law in 2003 to prevent gun sale data from being public record. This includes sales of firearms eventually used in armed conflicts in Mexico.
I’m interested to know how the Mexican Government, who also had / has the trace data, is bound by the Tiahart Amendment.
I know it’s going to be an unpopular opinion but I really see no problem with the Tiahart Amendment shielding Firearms Manufacturers and Gun Stores. The Manufacturers are already regulated and monitored directly by the Federal Government and Gun Stores can only make sales in compliance with Federal Law. They should not be culpable in either Criminal or Civil court for that reason. The truth is that most of the organization who want that data aren’t working in Good Faith and only want it so they can launch lawsuits meant to force Manufacturers and Sellers out of business.
It gets even worse at the individual level. There is absolutely zero cause for firearm transaction records to an individual to be publicly available. It’s not only a gross violation of privacy but it’s also a security concern.
What you SHOULD be mad about is why the BATFE, who clearly and provably does have this data, isn’t doing something with it. They already know literally everything in this article and yet they don’t seem to be doing much about it. Why?
I can be both mad that this data isn’t public record and that the BATFE aren’t doing their jobs.
I would disagree that there’s zero reason for this data to be public record. I’d agree with you if we were just shielding individuals who are purchasing like one handgun or something. That’s something that I don’t think is anyone else’s business. But if a dude is buying 95 semi-automatic rifles in a short period of time you bet your ass I think that should be public knowledge. No one should be able to secretly purchase enough firearms to arm a small militia.
That’s a huge risk for robbery and basically just asking for trouble. Shit tier idea to make that public knowledge tbh. Criminal doesn’t have a gun? Good thing they can just find someone that does. Already have one? Then they rob someone with 30 and put the guns onto the black market (still registered to the previous owner.)
Aren’t you forgetting something? Every gun owner is a super cool action hero and if anyone tries to break into their house they’ll be all “blam blam blam” and they’ll be able to turn on their wives again.
I forgot the answer to argument is a snarky remark.
The answer has been given over and over again but it doesn’t meet the pro-gun communities deliberately impossible standards. Why bother answering it yet again?
I disagree, I really don’t see why it’s any business of the PUBLIC (nor is there anything you could do about it.) But hold on…
That’s the thing, it’s NOT “secret”. The FBI and the BATFE both know they are just choosing not to do anything about it. I mean they literally KNOW, and not in some vague / abstract manner that is time delayed. They know in near real time that one purchaser has submitted a 4473 with multiple firearms on it and they also know if a single purchaser submits multiple form 4473s.
So when Craig Adlong was showing up to the Gun Store and buying 15,16,17 Rifles at a time multiple times a week both the BATFE and the FBI KNEW and chose not to do anything. They could have delayed or denied any of the transfers (sales) and / or sent out a Field Agent to figure out what was going on. They didn’t.
This is the foundation of my “The public doesn’t need to know” argument when it comes to individuals. Assuming the Gun Store is complying with Federal Law then this isn’t happening in secret. At least two different Federal Law Enforcement Agencies know about it.
I would say that most of the PUBLIC wants to know if someone is doing illegal arms dealing to murderous Mexican cartels in their town.
@[email protected] - I’m out of my element here:
Would you argue the public has elected officials who write policy and hire enforcers to govern arms, so we have a pathway to preventing illegal arms deals even if it’s not via the direct publication of details of original purchasers?
I can see tradeoffs here. I can imagine the security and harassment concern. I could also envision public benefit where our officials fail us but investigative reporters pick up the slack and shine light on specific problematic sales, leading to outcry and subsequently improved enforcement.
Perhaps illegal sales are a top NRA priority since these discussions involve some dangerous thinking from their perspective. If not, hope so, sounds win win.
Since you’re getting blasted here, I just wanted to hop on the downvote train to let you know that I think you’re exactly right on all counts.
You should really make a token effort to read the article before trying to be a smug fuck about it.