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You could have a cheese roll for supper, or you could go out for a 5 course banquet… both are sustaining, but one is empirically more sophisticated than the other. On any given evening, you might prefer either over the other, and that’s fine.
The metrics I listed constitute the elements of music - of course there are lots of detail within each. But they are what we use to appreciate music through analysis. What other metrics do you think there are?
I’d be happy to hear your philosophical definition of music… but I think mine is good enough. An event is when someone plucks a string or beats a drum. A period of time is the frame chosen from beginning of the music to the end of a piece : say 4’33".
You could have a cheese roll for supper, or you could go out for a 5 course banquet… both are sustaining, but one is empirically more sophisticated than the other.
Again, this is a matter of subjectivity. On closer inspection, there could be many intricacies in how to craft a good cheese roll. Raising the right cows in the right way, to give the right milk that with the right conditions will make the right cheese etc. At the same time it is possible to carelessly make a 5 course banquet while adhering to form. You can compare them on specific characteristics, but you can’t make the blanket statement, that one is more sophisticated than the other.
The metrics I listed constitute the elements of music - of course there are lots of detail within each. But they are what we use to appreciate music through analysis.
The video is about classical music theory. It was originally created (over a long period of time, with all kinds of exchange with different cultures btw) by western composers through observation to formalize their musical language. It’s parameters and methods come from practical considerations. There is no inherent value of a piece to be derived from them, only insight.
What other metrics do you think there are?
You can arbitrarily create new ones out of those you mentioned by combining and/or judging them in different ways.
E.g. we could measure timbral complexity by analyzing spectral composition, spectral dynamics or just number of instruments with distinct timbre used. Each of those might gain insight into the piece, but we can’t derive an assertion like “white noise is empirically more sophisticated than someone playing a Stradivari”.
Music also has cause, process, effect and sometimes an intention to be considered.
E.g. is the music of someone who is incredibly skilled at playing the piano more or less sophisticated than the music of someone incredibly skilled at building pianos exclusively for his pieces? Is a repetitive four-on-the-floor club-track that gets people to dance more or less sophisticated than an opera that fails to do so. Is a piece inherited and improved by many generations more or less sophisticated than one written in a weekend.
I’d be happy to hear your philosophical definition of music
The definition wouldn’t be so philosophical, I meant the process of finding one that is agreeable would be.
E.g. “Act or means to cause a deliberate and often time-variant auditory sensation”
However sophisticated you make the process of building a cheese sandwich to be… a 5 course banquet can be at least five times the sophistication. It isn’t subjective.
Timbral complexity is Timbre. Number of instruments and their particular register is Texture, and perhaps TImbral elements, such as the chalumeau register of a clarinet.
There is no music in building a piano - that’s an altogether different craft, and one to be respected.
And if a “repetitive four-on-the-floor club-track” does the job, then it does the job. I’m not being a snob.
a 5 course banquet can be at least five times the sophistication.
I could serve 5 cheese sandwiches :D
Timbral complexity is Timbre
I just wanted to show that these parameters are kind of arbitrarily chosen and (sometimes) ill-defined. (E.g. whats the difference between an overtone spectrum and a harmony? Mostly just context.)
You could have a cheese roll for supper, or you could go out for a 5 course banquet… both are sustaining, but one is empirically more sophisticated than the other. On any given evening, you might prefer either over the other, and that’s fine.
The metrics I listed constitute the elements of music - of course there are lots of detail within each. But they are what we use to appreciate music through analysis. What other metrics do you think there are?
I’d be happy to hear your philosophical definition of music… but I think mine is good enough. An event is when someone plucks a string or beats a drum. A period of time is the frame chosen from beginning of the music to the end of a piece : say 4’33".
Again, this is a matter of subjectivity. On closer inspection, there could be many intricacies in how to craft a good cheese roll. Raising the right cows in the right way, to give the right milk that with the right conditions will make the right cheese etc. At the same time it is possible to carelessly make a 5 course banquet while adhering to form. You can compare them on specific characteristics, but you can’t make the blanket statement, that one is more sophisticated than the other.
The video is about classical music theory. It was originally created (over a long period of time, with all kinds of exchange with different cultures btw) by western composers through observation to formalize their musical language. It’s parameters and methods come from practical considerations. There is no inherent value of a piece to be derived from them, only insight.
E.g. we could measure timbral complexity by analyzing spectral composition, spectral dynamics or just number of instruments with distinct timbre used. Each of those might gain insight into the piece, but we can’t derive an assertion like “white noise is empirically more sophisticated than someone playing a Stradivari”.
E.g. is the music of someone who is incredibly skilled at playing the piano more or less sophisticated than the music of someone incredibly skilled at building pianos exclusively for his pieces? Is a repetitive four-on-the-floor club-track that gets people to dance more or less sophisticated than an opera that fails to do so. Is a piece inherited and improved by many generations more or less sophisticated than one written in a weekend.
The definition wouldn’t be so philosophical, I meant the process of finding one that is agreeable would be.
E.g. “Act or means to cause a deliberate and often time-variant auditory sensation”
However sophisticated you make the process of building a cheese sandwich to be… a 5 course banquet can be at least five times the sophistication. It isn’t subjective.
Timbral complexity is Timbre. Number of instruments and their particular register is Texture, and perhaps TImbral elements, such as the chalumeau register of a clarinet.
There is no music in building a piano - that’s an altogether different craft, and one to be respected.
And if a “repetitive four-on-the-floor club-track” does the job, then it does the job. I’m not being a snob.
But I am done arguing about it.
I could serve 5 cheese sandwiches :D
I just wanted to show that these parameters are kind of arbitrarily chosen and (sometimes) ill-defined. (E.g. whats the difference between an overtone spectrum and a harmony? Mostly just context.)