The recipients of DACA are young people who have grown up as Americans, identify themselves as Americans, and many speak only English and have no memory of or connection with the country where they were born.
You would send someone to a country they have no memory of, no connection to, and cannot speak the language and not call it abuse? They’re not being sent home. They’re effectively being sent to a foreign country.
Exactly. That’s why it’s abusive. It’d be like sending a random conservative to Hungary. Though CPAC attendees may love Hungary, I doubt they’d like to be sent there forcefully when they identify as an American through and through.
The only reason I’m a citizen of American is because of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution:
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
That is, the law of the U.S. defines my status as a citizen of the U.S. by virtue of my being born here.
Still, there are four other ways to become a citizen of the U.S.
by naturalization
by marriage
through parents
through the military
These pathways are all outlined in various laws.
Again, the status of immigrants who are now citizens is determined by law.
I said earlier that “the ‘We support a legal path to citizenship for immigrants that go through the proper channels’ people do not, in fact, support a legal path to citizenship for them”. That is, Republicans generally refused to grant citizenship to immigrants by passing the DREAM Act. In their inability to govern, they did not pass a law.
You make it seem as if citizenship is an inherent characteristic of being born in the U.S. It is not. Repeal the 14th Amendment, and birthright citizenship goes away. Change the immigration laws, and lesser or greater numbers of immigrants can be granted citizenship. You’re right, “They are not citizens of America.” But they could have been (and could be) at the stroke of pen. It is the law that determines citizenship. While I’m both an American citizen and identify as American, dreamers only identify as American. It’s only because of xenophobia that dreamers are not citizens.
Abuse for abuse is not a cure.
Deportion is not abuse, why on Earth would it be?
I think we have fundementally different ideas of what abuse and deportation are
You would send someone to a country they have no memory of, no connection to, and cannot speak the language and not call it abuse? They’re not being sent home. They’re effectively being sent to a foreign country.
Exactly. That’s why it’s abusive. It’d be like sending a random conservative to Hungary. Though CPAC attendees may love Hungary, I doubt they’d like to be sent there forcefully when they identify as an American through and through.
It’s not an apt comparison.
It is not sending a random person to a random country.
It is sending a citizen of that country back to their country.
One can agree or disagree with doing it, but it isn’t a random person being sent to a random country.
If we want to get particular, it is the right thing to do under international law.
When you say “their” country, what do you mean?
The country of their origin and citizenship. You don’t identify as an American; you ARE an American.
They were not born here, and their parents were not citizens. They are not citizens of American.
If they are deported, they are being sent back to their rightful country. The one that can issue them a passport.
The only reason I’m a citizen of American is because of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution:
That is, the law of the U.S. defines my status as a citizen of the U.S. by virtue of my being born here.
Still, there are four other ways to become a citizen of the U.S.
These pathways are all outlined in various laws.
Again, the status of immigrants who are now citizens is determined by law.
I said earlier that “the ‘We support a legal path to citizenship for immigrants that go through the proper channels’ people do not, in fact, support a legal path to citizenship for them”. That is, Republicans generally refused to grant citizenship to immigrants by passing the DREAM Act. In their inability to govern, they did not pass a law.
You make it seem as if citizenship is an inherent characteristic of being born in the U.S. It is not. Repeal the 14th Amendment, and birthright citizenship goes away. Change the immigration laws, and lesser or greater numbers of immigrants can be granted citizenship. You’re right, “They are not citizens of America.” But they could have been (and could be) at the stroke of pen. It is the law that determines citizenship. While I’m both an American citizen and identify as American, dreamers only identify as American. It’s only because of xenophobia that dreamers are not citizens.
Your parents were not citizens? You didn’t serve in the military ?
Yes it is the law that determines citizenship. Not identifying.
They are not citizens. They are citizens of somewhere else. When we deport them. That’s where we need to end them under the law.
The abusive thing was to not deport them sooner.