Israel definitely want evacuated Palestinians to give up on returning home and integrate into other countries.
Forcing Palestinians to do this is one of the definitions of genocide.
If someone is suggesting that refugees become citizens of other countries of other countries automatically then that’s actually enabling a genocide.
This is the problem with looking at solutions on the small scale when the problem is large scale.
Every individual in those refugee camps would likely have a better life if they “integrated” into another country. It’s easy to say those people should get a better life.
But “integrating” into another country is also the language used to suggest the abandonment of culture and claim to their former home.
They are refugees because their homes have been under constant blockade or attack for decades. It’s time to give them their homes back.
Genuine response, I’m not trying to argue or be feisty, I’m honestly curious:
I was raised with Zionist views and so my background and knowledge leans very pro-Israelie Jews. I’m hearing your words and when I then follow the last sentence with “so then where do the Israelie Jews go who are being claimed to take the homes of the Palestinians?” I’m brought to a drop in the path as my knowledge says that the homes they’re in (not literally but same location) are their original homes. So, the question is: if we give Palestinians their homes back in Jerusalem and throughout Israel, where do those now displaced people go? Russia, Germany, Poland, etc? Those aren’t their original homes either, they were displaced to there earlier and then had to flee from there eventually as well.
I would really appreciate a continuation of your reasoning or solution-ing - not as a challenge but to understand what happens after the Palestinians get what they need/want. The immediate answer displaces Israelie Jews, yet again, and it’s frustrating as no one comes out and says that straight up. I think that’s where a lot of the frustration in conversations comes from as the silence on that followed question leads to it being perceived as anti-semetic rhetoric eventually being answered as “fuck them - they’re from nowhere and have no claim or right to any land” which eventually leads to the jump of “they’re not worth anyone’s time” which leads to worse.
Please note: I’m not inviting name calling or rude comments, I’m purely looking for a civil discussion to broaden my views and am open to alternative viewpoints from my own.
It’s a problem I recognise but in my opinion those who have grown up in illegal settlements have to be the ones to move.
I do blame their parents. Their parents have knowingly broken international law and it is essentially their fault their children are legally homeless.
This is where I have sympathy for those who will genuinely experience displacement when illegal settlements are handed back, but there was a choice made by those children’s parents to put them in that situation.
Compare that with the families forcibly removed from the land in the first place with no agency or choice.
I can see that there are those who are the victim of the oppression and aggression of Zionists because they were forced to leave.
There are those who may end up facing trauma because they were forced to move there.
There are victims on both sides, the important thing is not allowing those who have perpetrated harm to continue to do so.
The illegal settlements must be returned, those who have invaded will have caused harm to their own community and will face the consequences for that.
I hope for some reciprocity from both sides like in Ireland where there is not a continuous seeking for justice and further consequences. But the initial acts of oppression and theft must be undone.
There was a war in 1967. The occupation since has been illegal.
The 1967 war itself was justified because of the actions of guerillas, not state actors. Israel was the aggressor and preemptively struck against other nations.
Israel defended itself against threats. That was justified.
But Israel then went on to punish ordinary people and civilians. It’s a pattern of behaviour that has continued since 1967. Highlight the actions of terrorists, take from the civilians. Blockade the civilians, starve the civilians. Limit food, water, medicine, other supplies.
There have been times where Israel has allowed some normalcy in the 90s. But they’ve maintained a blockade and occupation. They’ve maintained an oppression.
All justified mostly by the actions of terrorists and external states. Not the people they’ve been persecuting.
Hamas are just the latest group. Israel cannot continue to punish civilians because of the actions of terrorists.
This is the reason for Palestinian refugee camps still remaining in Lebanon, Jordan & Syria. They don’t want them to integrate.
Israel definitely want evacuated Palestinians to give up on returning home and integrate into other countries.
Forcing Palestinians to do this is one of the definitions of genocide.
If someone is suggesting that refugees become citizens of other countries of other countries automatically then that’s actually enabling a genocide.
This is the problem with looking at solutions on the small scale when the problem is large scale.
Every individual in those refugee camps would likely have a better life if they “integrated” into another country. It’s easy to say those people should get a better life.
But “integrating” into another country is also the language used to suggest the abandonment of culture and claim to their former home.
They are refugees because their homes have been under constant blockade or attack for decades. It’s time to give them their homes back.
Genuine response, I’m not trying to argue or be feisty, I’m honestly curious:
I was raised with Zionist views and so my background and knowledge leans very pro-Israelie Jews. I’m hearing your words and when I then follow the last sentence with “so then where do the Israelie Jews go who are being claimed to take the homes of the Palestinians?” I’m brought to a drop in the path as my knowledge says that the homes they’re in (not literally but same location) are their original homes. So, the question is: if we give Palestinians their homes back in Jerusalem and throughout Israel, where do those now displaced people go? Russia, Germany, Poland, etc? Those aren’t their original homes either, they were displaced to there earlier and then had to flee from there eventually as well.
I would really appreciate a continuation of your reasoning or solution-ing - not as a challenge but to understand what happens after the Palestinians get what they need/want. The immediate answer displaces Israelie Jews, yet again, and it’s frustrating as no one comes out and says that straight up. I think that’s where a lot of the frustration in conversations comes from as the silence on that followed question leads to it being perceived as anti-semetic rhetoric eventually being answered as “fuck them - they’re from nowhere and have no claim or right to any land” which eventually leads to the jump of “they’re not worth anyone’s time” which leads to worse.
Please note: I’m not inviting name calling or rude comments, I’m purely looking for a civil discussion to broaden my views and am open to alternative viewpoints from my own.
It’s a problem I recognise but in my opinion those who have grown up in illegal settlements have to be the ones to move.
I do blame their parents. Their parents have knowingly broken international law and it is essentially their fault their children are legally homeless.
This is where I have sympathy for those who will genuinely experience displacement when illegal settlements are handed back, but there was a choice made by those children’s parents to put them in that situation.
Compare that with the families forcibly removed from the land in the first place with no agency or choice.
I can see that there are those who are the victim of the oppression and aggression of Zionists because they were forced to leave.
There are those who may end up facing trauma because they were forced to move there.
There are victims on both sides, the important thing is not allowing those who have perpetrated harm to continue to do so.
The illegal settlements must be returned, those who have invaded will have caused harm to their own community and will face the consequences for that.
I hope for some reciprocity from both sides like in Ireland where there is not a continuous seeking for justice and further consequences. But the initial acts of oppression and theft must be undone.
There was a war in 1967. The occupation since has been illegal.
The 1967 war itself was justified because of the actions of guerillas, not state actors. Israel was the aggressor and preemptively struck against other nations.
Israel defended itself against threats. That was justified.
But Israel then went on to punish ordinary people and civilians. It’s a pattern of behaviour that has continued since 1967. Highlight the actions of terrorists, take from the civilians. Blockade the civilians, starve the civilians. Limit food, water, medicine, other supplies.
There have been times where Israel has allowed some normalcy in the 90s. But they’ve maintained a blockade and occupation. They’ve maintained an oppression.
All justified mostly by the actions of terrorists and external states. Not the people they’ve been persecuting.
Hamas are just the latest group. Israel cannot continue to punish civilians because of the actions of terrorists.
Do you have any clue what’s going on?