Nothing in that video matches your claim. It shows disabled and elderly people can benefit from walkable cities and non-car-centric road planning, just like everyone else can. But I, like many others, CANNOT walk, cycle or use public transport, no matter how inviting the infrastructure or how much I dislike cars.
Could I use a mobility scooter? Sure! But not in the cold and wet and not when I can’t afford one. I could use it in addition to my car to get out on nice days or for short journeys to my local town but not instead of. And what am I meant to do when I get to the shops or cafe or whatever? Mobility scooters don’t fit in shops/cafes/restaurants unless they’re new buildings, which in the UK they’re invariably not.
Insisting that everyone can just use alternative means of transportation is untrue and unhelpful to the cause. A small percentage of people will always need cars, just like we’ll always need ambulances. Let’s focus on the abled bodied people who don’t actually need to be driving instead of blindly insisting that everyone is the same and one solution fits all.
Don’t go on the internet calling people ableist, and then claim that other people are being condescending. You’re the condescending one. You got all hung up on the way someone said one thing, and then wrote an entire novel in response, basically pointing out that you somehow have no idea what you’re arguing over.
The only real argument you seem to have made, was that it’s difficult for you to get in and out of buildings that weren’t built more recently. And that has absolutely nothing to do with the argument that is going on right now. It’s a problem, yeah… But not at all what we’re talking about.
Nobody who you replied to is saying that we should get rid of cars. And the only way your arguments make any sense to me, is if I assume that you think that’s what would happen. As a car fanatic who enjoys working on vehicles, I don’t enjoy the car hate. But I very rarely see people say that we should straight up get rid of all cars. They just seem to want more people to take public transit. There are some people who seem to demonize cars entirely, and to those people I say, CHILL. We got to this point because cars seemed like the answer to all our transportation needs. And for a long time, we were right. You don’t have to be so hateful about the way things are, when talking about how they can be better. Your attitude isn’t convincing any of the old people that hold all the power. You seem like upset children to them, and everyone you’re trying to convince, because you behave like one when you say things like “Cars are ruining our society”. No. Lobbyists that make sure the agenda doesn’t change to anything actually helpful, are what’s ruining our society. Though, I can’t speak for anyone outside of America.
But I, like many others, CANNOT walk, cycle or use public transport, no matter how inviting the infrastructure or how much I dislike cars.
Not sure why you couldn’t use multi-modal transport with a scooter and public transport? Not all public transport is accessible, but accessibility can and should be part of the focus of building/improving public transit.
Could I use a mobility scooter? Sure! But not in the cold and wet
I’m not sure why you couldn’t use a mobility scooter in weather? I occasionally see some in Canada which are enclosed and temperature controlled. In the Netherlands, they have microcars which are an even better option for people with disabilities than a full-sized modified vehicle.
… and not when I can’t afford one.
Yet you can afford a car? Not only are mobility scooters usually cheaper than much bigger, more complex cars, but they are also subsidized (rightfully so) by medicare/health-plans.
Mobility scooters don’t fit in shops/cafes/restaurants unless they’re new buildings, which in the UK they’re invariably not.
Neither do full-sized vehicles/bikes/transit, so your point is moot. However, the smaller size of mobility scooters makes it easier to accommodate closer handicap parking than full-sized cars.
A small percentage of people will always need cars, just like we’ll always need ambulances.
Ironically, there’s an argument that ambulances are public transit. They might be inefficient public transport, but they are an alternate to individuals driving dangerously to try and get medical help ASAP.
I think overall, your view of active transportation is really limited. Of course cars aren’t going away but all your arguments seem to be limited by your experience of motonormativity.
I’m mainly bed bound. I cannot maintain my blood pressure when upright, even when sitting, I faint regularly unless prone. I still have to go to the hospital and doctors regularly however - that is in fact the only place I do go, excluding visiting my dying mum 100 miles away.
I’m on chemotherapy - I’m immunosuppressed and very vulnerable to infection. I’m also prone to chest infections and have to keep warm. I have cold urticaria - I’m literally allergic to the cold. I have severe Raynaud’s disease - again I have to stay warm. I have severe arthritis, the cold makes this much more painful and restricts my pitiful mobility further.
Nice assumption, but no I can’t afford a car either. I swap in my disability benefit in for a car on the “motability scheme”. It leaves me with a whopping £100 a week to live off of. I could have an electric scooter instead but I have nowhere to store it and it’s not suitable for someone so vulnerable to the cold. My car is a self charging hybrid. I would love an electric car but I rent a flat - there’s nowhere to charge it.
My point is not moot, because manual wheelchairs can fit into the majority of places. I cannot just walk in when I arrive, I need my wheelchair.
We only have the one compact/small family car for our household, plus my manual wheelchair. Getting an electric scooter wouldn’t, couldn’t replace the car so getting one (with some hypothetical money) would be even worse for the environment.
I don’t actually live in a “motornormative” culture. I grew up in London and live in Birmingham. There’s trains, buses, trams, electric scooters and the tube, which the vast majority of people I know use over cars. Your questions (and assumptions) are pretty ableist tbh, and all I’m trying by to point out that disabled people aren’t the enemy. “Not everyone can walk or cycle” is a true statement. Let’s focus on the people that can walk and cycle instead of the small minority of us already penalised by society for having the misfortune to be sick or disabled.
Your original comment compared full-sized standard vehicles to mobility scooters. No where did you mention (and still haven’t clarified) how you get around having to be prone at all times. No, it’s not “ableist” to take what you say at face value.
Nice assumption, but no I can’t afford a car either. I swap in my disability benefit in for a car on the “motability scheme”. It leaves me with a whopping £100 a week to live off of. I could have an electric scooter instead but I have nowhere to store it and it’s not suitable for someone so vulnerable to the cold. My car is a self charging hybrid. I would love an electric car but I rent a flat - there’s nowhere to charge it.
This all is based on “what is” not “what can be”. I too live in the real world where I still share a car with my spouse, but I also advocate for the future I want to see, where we can rent/carshare a few times a year. This conversation is not about the status quo, but the potential of our communities.
If you were provided an accessible flat with a place to store a mobility device, less of your income would go towards transportation.
My point is not moot, because manual wheelchairs can fit into the majority of places. I cannot just walk in when I arrive, I need my wheelchair.
So you ignored my link about microcars. The video shows one with the seat removed and a ramp to allow a wheelchair to be ridden straight in and out (here’s it queued up for you).
Let’s focus on the people that can walk and cycle instead of the small minority of us already penalised by society for having the misfortune to be sick or disabled.
You’re reduced to “£100 a week to live off of” because of cars. Urbanists don’t want to penalize you for having the misfortune to be sick or disabled, they want to enable mobility for all, including the elderly and disabled. You’re just too stuck in car-brained thinking (and while it’s not the US, London and Birmingham are exceptionally motornormative).
![[meme] There is no one-size-fits-all solution to transportation](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0bfe1df9-1b6b-414f-88b3-4e7d57514682.webp){kind=link}
“Not everyone can walk or cycle”
The only response needed for that statement is the following video.
https://youtu.be/xSGx3HSjKDo?si=kuTXLxwQpSTdVL9n
Nothing in that video matches your claim. It shows disabled and elderly people can benefit from walkable cities and non-car-centric road planning, just like everyone else can. But I, like many others, CANNOT walk, cycle or use public transport, no matter how inviting the infrastructure or how much I dislike cars.
Could I use a mobility scooter? Sure! But not in the cold and wet and not when I can’t afford one. I could use it in addition to my car to get out on nice days or for short journeys to my local town but not instead of. And what am I meant to do when I get to the shops or cafe or whatever? Mobility scooters don’t fit in shops/cafes/restaurants unless they’re new buildings, which in the UK they’re invariably not.
Insisting that everyone can just use alternative means of transportation is untrue and unhelpful to the cause. A small percentage of people will always need cars, just like we’ll always need ambulances. Let’s focus on the abled bodied people who don’t actually need to be driving instead of blindly insisting that everyone is the same and one solution fits all.
What is my claim? I sure as heck responded to a claim. But what is my claim? Take your time and think about it please.
Watch from 1:25 mark.
Don’t be an arse. There’s absolutely no need to be so condescending.
Honestly, the only condescending one in this exchange was you.
Sincerely, a 3rd party observer
Don’t go on the internet calling people ableist, and then claim that other people are being condescending. You’re the condescending one. You got all hung up on the way someone said one thing, and then wrote an entire novel in response, basically pointing out that you somehow have no idea what you’re arguing over.
The only real argument you seem to have made, was that it’s difficult for you to get in and out of buildings that weren’t built more recently. And that has absolutely nothing to do with the argument that is going on right now. It’s a problem, yeah… But not at all what we’re talking about.
Nobody who you replied to is saying that we should get rid of cars. And the only way your arguments make any sense to me, is if I assume that you think that’s what would happen. As a car fanatic who enjoys working on vehicles, I don’t enjoy the car hate. But I very rarely see people say that we should straight up get rid of all cars. They just seem to want more people to take public transit. There are some people who seem to demonize cars entirely, and to those people I say, CHILL. We got to this point because cars seemed like the answer to all our transportation needs. And for a long time, we were right. You don’t have to be so hateful about the way things are, when talking about how they can be better. Your attitude isn’t convincing any of the old people that hold all the power. You seem like upset children to them, and everyone you’re trying to convince, because you behave like one when you say things like “Cars are ruining our society”. No. Lobbyists that make sure the agenda doesn’t change to anything actually helpful, are what’s ruining our society. Though, I can’t speak for anyone outside of America.
Not sure why you couldn’t use multi-modal transport with a scooter and public transport? Not all public transport is accessible, but accessibility can and should be part of the focus of building/improving public transit.
I’m not sure why you couldn’t use a mobility scooter in weather? I occasionally see some in Canada which are enclosed and temperature controlled. In the Netherlands, they have microcars which are an even better option for people with disabilities than a full-sized modified vehicle.
Yet you can afford a car? Not only are mobility scooters usually cheaper than much bigger, more complex cars, but they are also subsidized (rightfully so) by medicare/health-plans.
Neither do full-sized vehicles/bikes/transit, so your point is moot. However, the smaller size of mobility scooters makes it easier to accommodate closer handicap parking than full-sized cars.
Ironically, there’s an argument that ambulances are public transit. They might be inefficient public transport, but they are an alternate to individuals driving dangerously to try and get medical help ASAP.
I think overall, your view of active transportation is really limited. Of course cars aren’t going away but all your arguments seem to be limited by your experience of motonormativity.
I’m mainly bed bound. I cannot maintain my blood pressure when upright, even when sitting, I faint regularly unless prone. I still have to go to the hospital and doctors regularly however - that is in fact the only place I do go, excluding visiting my dying mum 100 miles away.
I’m on chemotherapy - I’m immunosuppressed and very vulnerable to infection. I’m also prone to chest infections and have to keep warm. I have cold urticaria - I’m literally allergic to the cold. I have severe Raynaud’s disease - again I have to stay warm. I have severe arthritis, the cold makes this much more painful and restricts my pitiful mobility further.
Nice assumption, but no I can’t afford a car either. I swap in my disability benefit in for a car on the “motability scheme”. It leaves me with a whopping £100 a week to live off of. I could have an electric scooter instead but I have nowhere to store it and it’s not suitable for someone so vulnerable to the cold. My car is a self charging hybrid. I would love an electric car but I rent a flat - there’s nowhere to charge it.
My point is not moot, because manual wheelchairs can fit into the majority of places. I cannot just walk in when I arrive, I need my wheelchair.
We only have the one compact/small family car for our household, plus my manual wheelchair. Getting an electric scooter wouldn’t, couldn’t replace the car so getting one (with some hypothetical money) would be even worse for the environment.
I don’t actually live in a “motornormative” culture. I grew up in London and live in Birmingham. There’s trains, buses, trams, electric scooters and the tube, which the vast majority of people I know use over cars. Your questions (and assumptions) are pretty ableist tbh, and all I’m trying by to point out that disabled people aren’t the enemy. “Not everyone can walk or cycle” is a true statement. Let’s focus on the people that can walk and cycle instead of the small minority of us already penalised by society for having the misfortune to be sick or disabled.
Your original comment compared full-sized standard vehicles to mobility scooters. No where did you mention (and still haven’t clarified) how you get around having to be prone at all times. No, it’s not “ableist” to take what you say at face value.
This all is based on “what is” not “what can be”. I too live in the real world where I still share a car with my spouse, but I also advocate for the future I want to see, where we can rent/carshare a few times a year. This conversation is not about the status quo, but the potential of our communities.
If you were provided an accessible flat with a place to store a mobility device, less of your income would go towards transportation.
So you ignored my link about microcars. The video shows one with the seat removed and a ramp to allow a wheelchair to be ridden straight in and out (here’s it queued up for you).
You’re reduced to “£100 a week to live off of” because of cars. Urbanists don’t want to penalize you for having the misfortune to be sick or disabled, they want to enable mobility for all, including the elderly and disabled. You’re just too stuck in car-brained thinking (and while it’s not the US, London and Birmingham are exceptionally motornormative).