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I have a little trick to tell whether im arguing with someone who actually is astroturfin vs someone who’s simply ignorant. I just prick their egos, just a bit. Just a a minor one mind you, not a full throated dismissal. I like to work one into an otherwise on-topic reply.
Almost always the other person zeroes in on and rises to the bait. If they don’t? Theyre working. Similarly, astroturfers won’t get nasty like real folks do, or double down like real folks do if you debunk their argument well. Astroturfers dont want eyes in that so they’ll simply ghost you.
Just my hypothesis of course.
Dunno what to do about figuring their age except tell people mine. Sometimes that gives my words more weight. If my experience is instead dismissed, i always have my 30 years of Internet shit talking under my belt! Insults don’t hit as hard when they’re all re-runs :)
Edit: anyone want to tell me why they don’t like this? Points don’t matter when it doesn’t hide your comment but I am actually confused. You don’t like it? Think it’s bullshit? I am here for your complaints
This might be true but it’s the best they I’ve got and it has served me somewhat well (confirmation bias, i know). Beyond my little trick there’s looking into their histories etc but everyone knows that one
Almost always the other person zeroes in on and rises to the bait.
That’s a bad method especially on Lemmy which prides itself on friendliness.
If I know I’m right, and coming down hard on someone in an argument, I actively avoid acknowledging insults because I see it as a tactic to stall from losing an argument.
People will start ramping up insults before they lose in order to bait you into arguing about the insults instead of the facts that they are wrong about.
I mean, it can pride itself on friendliness, but it’s not really a friendly place. People are toxic and dismissive, often ignoring any nuance in a discussion.
That’s a bad method especially on Lemmy which prides itself on friendliness.
I’ve seen a minor increase in people willing to reply and bring actual sauce to discussion. I’ve still never seen anyone willing to change their mind despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Even when you have a username like my which goads people into ad hominems using fake historical earworms lol.
Respectfully, I don’t think lemmy is as friendly as all that. It’s a shit- ton better than Reddit though, (where i developed the method). That aside, there’s also my belief that there aren’t nearly as many astroturfers here (simply because of lemmys limited scope).
And if what you said is true about avoiding responding to insults, youre kind of a unicorn. Be proud. Most peoples egos are right there on their sleeves, and if youve been around the block you know (at least on that) I’m right.
People tie their egos to their beliefs. To attack their viewpoint is to attack them personally. People will get frustrated when you blow up an argument. People are easy.
Now id like to move discussion away from how I’m wrong and my methods bad, and towards other related ideas. Perhaps we might discuss ways to better my method instead of throwing it out (perfect being the enemy of good and all that)? I would also enjoy hearing methods (maybe you have some) of seperating astroturfers from posters.
Because they exist, and throwing up my hands is unacceptable
A really good way I have found that doesn’t turn the audience against you like barbecuing souls does is to not speak to whoever you’re replying to at all. Openly say you’re addressing the audience and speak of your opponent in the third person, the way you do when you are talking about someone else right in front of them. Or like, the way you’d show them a new game system you bought, or cookies you made, or something.
I did that before to an astroturfer on Reddit and the guy never responded back, and I got tons of sweet sweet Reddit karma.
Do you keep a list of people whom you’ve verified as human, perchance?
A really good way I have found that doesn’t turn the audience against you like barbecuing souls does is to not speak to whoever you’re replying to at all. Openly say you’re addressing the audience and speak of your opponent in the third person
I like your idea. I would like to keep people on my side generally since if i think someone is actually astro’n my turf i want other people to chasing them off too, not me. Generally i lose my audience when i mention the possibility they astroturfing even exists, and I’ve always wondered why. I’ll try your method out when i run into a 'turfer im sure about.
As far as any list, sorry i got nothin. I used to keep a list of suspect astroturfers on Reddit but I’m way too new on lemmy, still finding my way around.
Your strategy, while innovative, is fundamentally flawed. It’s disingenuous and presumptuous, alienating those who maintain composure and objectivity rather than reacting emotionally to your minor provocations.
I propose an easier solution: interact with people who you find interesting. Worst case, you have a wonderful conversation with a bot and find your prejudice wasn’t even warranted.
I think I’m probably just gonna end up in the inbox but why would you even comment on a forum if you had no interest in what the other person had to say? In this thread i suppose it’s necessary to say I’m not trying to trick ya, I’m curious! i wonder: what are you getting out of commenting without seeing replies?
Hey, thank you for sharing! I thought i was gonna be #161. I think the kind of person who had the self-awareness to say something like “my opinion isn’t worth anything” is the kind of person that i want to see posting more, personally. But i get it. Take it easy :)
I have a little trick to tell whether im arguing with someone who actually is astroturfin vs someone who’s simply ignorant. I just prick their egos, just a bit. Just a a minor one mind you, not a full throated dismissal. I like to work one into an otherwise on-topic reply.
Almost always the other person zeroes in on and rises to the bait. If they don’t? Theyre working. Similarly, astroturfers won’t get nasty like real folks do, or double down like real folks do if you debunk their argument well. Astroturfers dont want eyes in that so they’ll simply ghost you.
Just my hypothesis of course.
Dunno what to do about figuring their age except tell people mine. Sometimes that gives my words more weight. If my experience is instead dismissed, i always have my 30 years of Internet shit talking under my belt! Insults don’t hit as hard when they’re all re-runs :)
Edit: anyone want to tell me why they don’t like this? Points don’t matter when it doesn’t hide your comment but I am actually confused. You don’t like it? Think it’s bullshit? I am here for your complaints
Effectively you are dismissing users based on your own feelings and not much else
This might be true but it’s the best they I’ve got and it has served me somewhat well (confirmation bias, i know). Beyond my little trick there’s looking into their histories etc but everyone knows that one
That’s a bad method especially on Lemmy which prides itself on friendliness.
If I know I’m right, and coming down hard on someone in an argument, I actively avoid acknowledging insults because I see it as a tactic to stall from losing an argument.
People will start ramping up insults before they lose in order to bait you into arguing about the insults instead of the facts that they are wrong about.
I mean, it can pride itself on friendliness, but it’s not really a friendly place. People are toxic and dismissive, often ignoring any nuance in a discussion.
🤣🤣🤣
I’ve seen a minor increase in people willing to reply and bring actual sauce to discussion. I’ve still never seen anyone willing to change their mind despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Even when you have a username like my which goads people into ad hominems using fake historical earworms lol.
Respectfully, I don’t think lemmy is as friendly as all that. It’s a shit- ton better than Reddit though, (where i developed the method). That aside, there’s also my belief that there aren’t nearly as many astroturfers here (simply because of lemmys limited scope).
And if what you said is true about avoiding responding to insults, youre kind of a unicorn. Be proud. Most peoples egos are right there on their sleeves, and if youve been around the block you know (at least on that) I’m right.
People tie their egos to their beliefs. To attack their viewpoint is to attack them personally. People will get frustrated when you blow up an argument. People are easy.
Now id like to move discussion away from how I’m wrong and my methods bad, and towards other related ideas. Perhaps we might discuss ways to better my method instead of throwing it out (perfect being the enemy of good and all that)? I would also enjoy hearing methods (maybe you have some) of seperating astroturfers from posters.
Because they exist, and throwing up my hands is unacceptable
🤔🤔🤔
A really good way I have found that doesn’t turn the audience against you like barbecuing souls does is to not speak to whoever you’re replying to at all. Openly say you’re addressing the audience and speak of your opponent in the third person, the way you do when you are talking about someone else right in front of them. Or like, the way you’d show them a new game system you bought, or cookies you made, or something.
I did that before to an astroturfer on Reddit and the guy never responded back, and I got tons of sweet sweet Reddit karma.
Do you keep a list of people whom you’ve verified as human, perchance?
I like your idea. I would like to keep people on my side generally since if i think someone is actually astro’n my turf i want other people to chasing them off too, not me. Generally i lose my audience when i mention the possibility they astroturfing even exists, and I’ve always wondered why. I’ll try your method out when i run into a 'turfer im sure about.
As far as any list, sorry i got nothin. I used to keep a list of suspect astroturfers on Reddit but I’m way too new on lemmy, still finding my way around.
Your strategy, while innovative, is fundamentally flawed. It’s disingenuous and presumptuous, alienating those who maintain composure and objectivity rather than reacting emotionally to your minor provocations.
I propose an easier solution: interact with people who you find interesting. Worst case, you have a wonderful conversation with a bot and find your prejudice wasn’t even warranted.
You just run away when someone questions your bad faith argument like a true adult.
This is embarrassing.
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I think I’m probably just gonna end up in the inbox but why would you even comment on a forum if you had no interest in what the other person had to say? In this thread i suppose it’s necessary to say I’m not trying to trick ya, I’m curious! i wonder: what are you getting out of commenting without seeing replies?
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Hey, thank you for sharing! I thought i was gonna be #161. I think the kind of person who had the self-awareness to say something like “my opinion isn’t worth anything” is the kind of person that i want to see posting more, personally. But i get it. Take it easy :)
You think that anyone behaving like an adult after you insult them is a shill? Kee-rist, no wonder the internet is in such bad shape.
Only 30? If you weren’t online before '93 then you’re a n00b.
Would you mind explaining what party of my comment made your get angry?
Did you extrapolate what i said, (i do this with people i suspect) to mean i do this to everyone?
Was it when i mentioned people’s egos? did i come off as arrogant?
Im interested now that everyone’s all cooled down in what got everyone all pissed off, cuz again believe it or not that wasn’t the comment’s intent
What do you say?
Huh, you’re nicer about it than I am. I usually just barbecue their souls and then get banned. 🤷