Yeah it’s a real moral conundrum. Do you vote for the fascists who want to destroy the country of America, or the other party who wants to bring people together and have some good social programs going. It’s really a very tough and confusing choice.
The side the listener is on believes this to be true regardless of whichever perspective you’re speaking from.
The left thinks the right are fascists without exception. The right thinks the left are fascists without exception.
How did those fringe minority opinions suddenly become mainstream as if you can paint a whole population with such a generalization.
I’m not saying both are the same, as one inherently requires the suffering of many to have their desires met. However, both sides will use this “team sport, win at all costs” mentality so long as it resonates with the population they try to reach.
The difference being Republicans have been saying that for… 60 years now?
Democrats have only started seriously saying that since Trump.
You can argue slightly for Bush and retaliation for 9/11. But nobody was thinking the state of American democracy was at stake lol.
Plenty of Democrats allowed nuance for misguided Republicans right up until they voted for Trump a second time. Or saying the quiet part out loud, or preferred convicted pedophiles over the other team.
It ripped the rose tinted glasses off. Most people who lean even slightly left know better now. What your average republican voters says means nothing if you continue voting in fascists lol.
The downvotes are because one side has attempted an insurrection, constantly attempts to subvert the outcome of elections, and is saying out loud they plan on weaponizing police against their opposition, while the other is the fucking Democrats. Saying “both sides think that” doesn’t neutralize people’s genuine concerns that a not insignificant amount of politicians in one fucking party are willing to completely throw out any election that doesn’t suit them, which means they are already attempting to take over. Both sides may think that, but one side thinks it credibly while the other thinks it based on absolutely nothing.
My intention wasnt to say both sides think the same, it’s exactly the opposite. It’s that neither side thinks the way the other is painted.
While both extreme fringes are being sold as mainstream now, the majority of people are simply more complicated than that. People on the right need to recognize that their party has been taken over, and put aside the greed of short term wins to consider if they really back this ideology. You’re instantly branded a RINO and tossed aside if you do, and fear arising from cultlike mob mentality is used to keep people at the fringes.
People on the right need to recognize that their party has been taken over, and put aside the greed of short term wins to consider if they really back this ideology.
Depending on how you want to count, they’ve had at least 6 years to consider this. Clearly their decision has been made.
It’s also been 6 years of a concerted effort to sway their opinion towards the fringe through bad actors slowly and methodically moving the goalposts.
Some are in the deep end, but many are just blindly following like sheep because they’re too busy simply trying to get by. They’re not evil by nature, they’re just stupid and have been weaponized. There needs to be work to bring them back in a manner that doesn’t scare or shame them.
I understand all of that. The OP was just saying that both sides feel the same about each other. He was not saying that one side is better than the other, or that both sides are the same, they are clearly not the same.
The media demonizes everything it can about the other side while downplaying or denying everything their side has done wrong. Everyone sticks to their ‘feed’ or ‘channel’ and so only understands their weaponized story of events. There are teams of professionals spinning each of these stories to the best of their ability. There are extremely complex algorithms pulling people further and further over their side of the boat to maintain enngagement and sell ads.
If they only ever watch ‘Fox News’ then they’ll only hear about the good stuff their party doing and fear mongering over the other party. If they happen to see a counter argument on ‘CNN’ or something they’ll see it as fake/misleading/out of context/false. They’ll go into their similar minded social media communities and discuss and rant with a group that they see as everybody, validating their concerns.
This is a media bubble, a worsening bipolar extermist movement driven my massive market forces. We have to acknowledge we are subject to the same media bubble effects as they are, the same market forces are being applied to us. Swap the positions of ‘Fox News’ and ‘CNN’ in the above paragraph and reread it.
Until people acknowledge this and learn to engage with their opposition in a productive manner, the political climate in this country will continue to worsen. The politicians and media will never engaged the opposition productively as it is against their interests to do so. This bipolar extremism works too well for improving votes, user engagement, donations, and merch sales. Yet in the end, it is us who they are competing over. De-escalation is the best path forward from this. While that effort is against the flow of the system, we are the only ones who can do it.
Democratic leadership and a literal few sane Republicans Representatives do indeed engage with their opposition at the detriment to how their base views either of them. They are a very fickle bridge currently holding our democracy together.
That doesn’t mean that either base is incorrect on vehemently denying the others stances. Plenty of people see eye to eye on a multitude of issues. Only Republicans almost unanimously agrees with their opposition but still votes against their own wishes. That’s what single issue voting and scare tactics gets you.
You’re falsely conflating a Democrats ability to vote with confidence in their parties stances and a Republicans ability to vote against a democrats. The Republican view harshly belies their ability to find an olive branch.
Take an upvote, well said and i can’t disagree with you.
My reason in speaking out is to hopefully promote positive change. I see too many people here giving in to the us vs them, ‘deport them’ mindset that the other side has maintained for so long. Positive change requires one side to act better than the other and engage with them positively.
I generally agree. There have always been far more bridges crossed with kindness and understanding than there have been in othering your neighbors.
However like we’ve said, the issues everyone disagrees on are also very real, visceral, and part of of an every growing divide that happens naturally in democratic environments.
Too many people forget that you can compromise on a lot, but once you’ve gone through everything, you end up with stances that cannot be budged on. They’re antithetical to how your entire worldview may work. And that’s fine to draw the line, but don’t mistake it for something you can’t whittle away at. Knowledge and understanding can get past a lot it, and sometimes, you never will. But it doesn’t make it NOT the best avenue for non-violent change.
Yeah it’s a real moral conundrum. Do you vote for the fascists who want to destroy the country of America, or the other party who wants to bring people together and have some good social programs going. It’s really a very tough and confusing choice.
The side the listener is on believes this to be true regardless of whichever perspective you’re speaking from.
The left thinks the right are fascists without exception. The right thinks the left are fascists without exception.
How did those fringe minority opinions suddenly become mainstream as if you can paint a whole population with such a generalization.
I’m not saying both are the same, as one inherently requires the suffering of many to have their desires met. However, both sides will use this “team sport, win at all costs” mentality so long as it resonates with the population they try to reach.
The difference being Republicans have been saying that for… 60 years now?
Democrats have only started seriously saying that since Trump.
You can argue slightly for Bush and retaliation for 9/11. But nobody was thinking the state of American democracy was at stake lol.
Plenty of Democrats allowed nuance for misguided Republicans right up until they voted for Trump a second time. Or saying the quiet part out loud, or preferred convicted pedophiles over the other team.
It ripped the rose tinted glasses off. Most people who lean even slightly left know better now. What your average republican voters says means nothing if you continue voting in fascists lol.
Not sure why the downvotes. Republicans truly believe that Democrats will destroy the country if they win the next election.
The downvotes are because one side has attempted an insurrection, constantly attempts to subvert the outcome of elections, and is saying out loud they plan on weaponizing police against their opposition, while the other is the fucking Democrats. Saying “both sides think that” doesn’t neutralize people’s genuine concerns that a not insignificant amount of politicians in one fucking party are willing to completely throw out any election that doesn’t suit them, which means they are already attempting to take over. Both sides may think that, but one side thinks it credibly while the other thinks it based on absolutely nothing.
My intention wasnt to say both sides think the same, it’s exactly the opposite. It’s that neither side thinks the way the other is painted.
While both extreme fringes are being sold as mainstream now, the majority of people are simply more complicated than that. People on the right need to recognize that their party has been taken over, and put aside the greed of short term wins to consider if they really back this ideology. You’re instantly branded a RINO and tossed aside if you do, and fear arising from cultlike mob mentality is used to keep people at the fringes.
Depending on how you want to count, they’ve had at least 6 years to consider this. Clearly their decision has been made.
It’s also been 6 years of a concerted effort to sway their opinion towards the fringe through bad actors slowly and methodically moving the goalposts.
Some are in the deep end, but many are just blindly following like sheep because they’re too busy simply trying to get by. They’re not evil by nature, they’re just stupid and have been weaponized. There needs to be work to bring them back in a manner that doesn’t scare or shame them.
I understand all of that. The OP was just saying that both sides feel the same about each other. He was not saying that one side is better than the other, or that both sides are the same, they are clearly not the same.
The media demonizes everything it can about the other side while downplaying or denying everything their side has done wrong. Everyone sticks to their ‘feed’ or ‘channel’ and so only understands their weaponized story of events. There are teams of professionals spinning each of these stories to the best of their ability. There are extremely complex algorithms pulling people further and further over their side of the boat to maintain enngagement and sell ads.
If they only ever watch ‘Fox News’ then they’ll only hear about the good stuff their party doing and fear mongering over the other party. If they happen to see a counter argument on ‘CNN’ or something they’ll see it as fake/misleading/out of context/false. They’ll go into their similar minded social media communities and discuss and rant with a group that they see as everybody, validating their concerns.
This is a media bubble, a worsening bipolar extermist movement driven my massive market forces. We have to acknowledge we are subject to the same media bubble effects as they are, the same market forces are being applied to us. Swap the positions of ‘Fox News’ and ‘CNN’ in the above paragraph and reread it.
Until people acknowledge this and learn to engage with their opposition in a productive manner, the political climate in this country will continue to worsen. The politicians and media will never engaged the opposition productively as it is against their interests to do so. This bipolar extremism works too well for improving votes, user engagement, donations, and merch sales. Yet in the end, it is us who they are competing over. De-escalation is the best path forward from this. While that effort is against the flow of the system, we are the only ones who can do it.
Democratic leadership and a literal few sane Republicans Representatives do indeed engage with their opposition at the detriment to how their base views either of them. They are a very fickle bridge currently holding our democracy together.
That doesn’t mean that either base is incorrect on vehemently denying the others stances. Plenty of people see eye to eye on a multitude of issues. Only Republicans almost unanimously agrees with their opposition but still votes against their own wishes. That’s what single issue voting and scare tactics gets you.
You’re falsely conflating a Democrats ability to vote with confidence in their parties stances and a Republicans ability to vote against a democrats. The Republican view harshly belies their ability to find an olive branch.
Take an upvote, well said and i can’t disagree with you.
My reason in speaking out is to hopefully promote positive change. I see too many people here giving in to the us vs them, ‘deport them’ mindset that the other side has maintained for so long. Positive change requires one side to act better than the other and engage with them positively.
https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes
I generally agree. There have always been far more bridges crossed with kindness and understanding than there have been in othering your neighbors.
However like we’ve said, the issues everyone disagrees on are also very real, visceral, and part of of an every growing divide that happens naturally in democratic environments.
Too many people forget that you can compromise on a lot, but once you’ve gone through everything, you end up with stances that cannot be budged on. They’re antithetical to how your entire worldview may work. And that’s fine to draw the line, but don’t mistake it for something you can’t whittle away at. Knowledge and understanding can get past a lot it, and sometimes, you never will. But it doesn’t make it NOT the best avenue for non-violent change.
Projection, as always.