• cygnus
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    2 months ago

    I can’t go around shooting photos of random people when they’re naked and then circulate them.

    That’s wildly different. It’s like saying that writing about murder and actually committing it are the same thing.

    • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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      2 months ago

      Deepfakes are already so good in many cases that the differences are basically trivial. The gulf between writing and committing murder is far wider. Not a great parallel IMO.

      How would you feel if someone spread nude deepfakes of you? Your partner? Your child? Are you telling me that’s just like writing about doing something and not closer to committing the act and you’d just shrug and move on with your life?

      • cygnus
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        2 months ago

        Deepfakes are already so good in many cases that the differences are basically trivial.

        Then if anything it gives deniability to real nudes. “It wasn’t me, it’s fake!”

        How would you feel if someone spread nude deepfakes of you? Your partner? Your child? Are you telling me that’s just like writing about doing something and not closer to committing the act and you’d just shrug and move on with your life?

        It depends. There’s already a legal framework for defamation, so if the deepfake is made public and has a negative impact on me I can use that avenue. Simply making the deepfake, though, is akin to drawing me naked (not that anyone wound want to do that). It’s deeply weird but should not be illegal IMO.

        • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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          2 months ago

          It’s not about deniability. I don’t want incredibly photorealistic nudes of me or my family spreading around with little to no consequences. I certainly don’t want to get into prolonged court battles over it. Why does somebody’s unfettered use of AI trump my dignity as a person? We have restrictions on photography and video baked into our legal framework. Why should this be any different?

          I can’t imagine you would be so flippant if this was happening to you.

          • cygnus
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            2 months ago

            We have restrictions on photography and video baked into our legal framework. Why should this be any different?

            Because it isn’t real. Why should someone be charged for creating a work of fiction? Do you not see how dangerous that precedent is?

            • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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              2 months ago

              How is a paper facsimile generated with glass and light any more or less real than a near-duplication in a digital format? You are splitting hairs here. If the average person essentially can’t distinguish between a deep fake and a “real“ photo or agrees it is sufficiently similar for their purposes than it’s moot. Your argument hinges on whether or not something is “real“ and that is not a prior that most people agree with, nor is it a scientific or otherwise objective/measurable benchmark. You can’t just vacillate between science-y sounding responses and opinions like that.

              There are deep fakes that look more “real” than some old photos. Where does that factor into this?

              I’m being dead serious here when I ask: what constitutes “real”? Because that seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting in your responses. And I don’t really see that word tossed around much in legal frameworks that’s for sure, certainly not as you seem to be using it. I’ve been in the visual/audio media industry for 15 years and I can tell you that your lines in the sand are yours and yours alone. The thousands of releases I’ve been responsible for over the course of my career make that pretty obvious.

              • cygnus
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                2 months ago

                I’m being dead serious here when I ask: what constitutes “real”? Because that seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting in your responses.

                That seems pretty obvious to me: a capture of a person’s actual body, rather than a fabrication based on other source materials or created out of whole cloth. I’m not sure what your counterpoint might be. Do you consider CGI to be “real”?

                • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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                  2 months ago

                  If you generate a deepfake it’s based on information garnered from the person’s actual body/face/etc. How is that any different? None of what you are describing is particularly distinguishing or measurable and I’m still failing to see where “real” falls here. If you use my face to generate a fake, because you have to use an image of my face to make that happen which according to you is “real,” how is that functionally any different? You’re still using my “real” image or whatever.

                  This reads to me like…I don’t know, if I right click a photo and choose “duplicate” on my computer then I’ve no longer got the “real” image. Because it’s “new” pixels not comprised of the original. You are trivializing the source of the image, aka a person.

                  • cygnus
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                    2 months ago

                    If you generate a deepfake it’s based on information garnered from the person’s actual body/face/etc. How is that any different?

                    Because it isn’t their actual face or body. I’m not sure what’s so complicated about what I’m saying. A photo or video is 100% accurate representation of a person, capturing their actual face/body at a real moment in time. A deepfake or CGI model or painting or charcoal drawing is not a capture of their actual face/body but merely a creative reproduction or interpolation.

                    This reads to me like…I don’t know, if I right click a photo and choose “duplicate” on my computer then I’ve no longer got the “real” image. Because it’s “new” pixels not comprised of the original. You are trivializing the source of the image, aka a person.

                    This analogy doesn’t make sense at all.