note that this makes it even harder to tell which damn size they are
usually mild steel so they strip, especially when it turns out you’re using imperial in metric and vice versa
Too many years of wrenching on old equipment has soured me on all except for the good old fashioned hex bolt (S tier) and Robertson (A tier).
Even slotted beats most of these if the steel is decent, scrape out the rust and whack it with an impact screwdriver. I’ve turned many torx and hex in particular into slotted over the years.
External/male hex aka what big bolts have that you use a wrench for are A tier. I can’t really think of a more effective way to transfer large amounts of torque to a bolt or nut.
Female hex aka Allens are low C or high D tier. They would rate higher, but they’re made in 8.23*10^19 sizes, and the correct one nearly never falls to hand. Add to that the tendency for allen wrenches to be made of low quality extruded hex stock and you’ve got an excellent recipe for an unpleasant fastening experience.
I rarely see imperial hex. Many Allan key set still come with imperial sizes but all contemporary products and screws come as metric now (in my experience in the UK).
Even with the metric there are still many sizes needed, which I agree is frustrating. However, it ensures the correct bit size is used for the correct screw. Unlike Phillips, pozidriv and slotted. It also limits the amount of torque that can be applied to a screw that is proportional to the screws thickness.
The prevalence of low quality screws and tools for hex drives is because they are cheaper to manufacture. Its unfair to reduce the rank of the drive mechanism for that. If the average hex screw and driver were built with the same quality of materials as the average torx this would be less of an issue.
I would recommend you use a screwdriver with hex bit heads instead of Allen keys, if you need to use hex screws a lot. Much more pleasant experience and much less likely to bend and twist like Allen wrenches.
Well designed things and screws should come with appropriate drives. I wouldn’t recommend using a wrench on internal hex drives. If they needed high torque they should be external hex like a traditional bolt. Only external hex, large torque and large internal hex should be applied with a wrench. Other drive systems should be used when hand tightening is all that is needed. I’ve learned the hard way tighter isn’t always better.
I appreciate your passion for the superior type of fastener. I work in both metric and imperial for all types of fastener and metric allen is the easiest to work with in my opinion.
Yeah there’s no telling which standard you’ll encounter in the US, Probably both on the same machine.
And ain’t it funny that Allen is pretty much the only case where the most available drivers are cheap as shit L-shaped pieces of “tool” steel? Yeah, “allen screws and drivers are cheaper to manufacture” which is why they’re almost universally cheaper and shittier. Improve the quality of anything for the hell of it and guess the fuck what? The quality goes up. My algebra teacher taught me about that, it’s the transitive property of obvious bullshit.
I could be talked into bumping Hex up to B, I just want it between Phillips and Robertson.
I don’t have any experience with Pozi screws in the US, but doing a quick search they look like a solid upgrade over Phillips, so I’m guessing I would agree if I actually used them.
You get the self centering speed of Phillips with less cam out. It’s standard for most construction style work, very useful when you need to do 100+ screws a day.
It can be a bit of a nightmare when you first start doing DIY. Because you may not recognise the difference between Pozi and Phillips. Both drivers will turn each screw, but the wrong driver will make cam out and stripping more likely.
If you use the right driver and right size of driver. It’s very good. In my experience it’s much better than Phillips.
Torx, hex and Robertson are better, but they don’t self centre. So if your doing a lot of screwing, pozi drive is king. Because it self centres, it’s much faster. It’s great for construction type work (decking, plasterboard, walls etc).
If your doing more fine work, or need to apply a lot of torque it’s shouldn’t be used. But very long/thick screws tend to be external hex, torx or combinations of these at Screwfix/Toolstation.
Pozidriv is what Phillips should have been all along, except that bed has already been shat. It’s like the American electrical socket, someone made a decision in 1902 that we’re still stuck with and modern attempts to improve it just get in the way.
Pozi is amazing for household applications where you don’t need the torque of torx, and amazing for line work where screws won’t be touched ever again (framing etc.)
Hex should be B teir. Pozi should be C, it’s very common in the UK for low torque applications. But it looks deceptively similar to Phillips.
Hex could even be A tier except…
Too many years of wrenching on old equipment has soured me on all except for the good old fashioned hex bolt (S tier) and Robertson (A tier).
Even slotted beats most of these if the steel is decent, scrape out the rust and whack it with an impact screwdriver. I’ve turned many torx and hex in particular into slotted over the years.
There are not too many metric hex sizes.
There are too many imperial sizes, many of which have silly names.
Having cut the head off many rounded bolts I question your judgement.
what do you do?
External/male hex aka what big bolts have that you use a wrench for are A tier. I can’t really think of a more effective way to transfer large amounts of torque to a bolt or nut. Female hex aka Allens are low C or high D tier. They would rate higher, but they’re made in 8.23*10^19 sizes, and the correct one nearly never falls to hand. Add to that the tendency for allen wrenches to be made of low quality extruded hex stock and you’ve got an excellent recipe for an unpleasant fastening experience.
I rarely see imperial hex. Many Allan key set still come with imperial sizes but all contemporary products and screws come as metric now (in my experience in the UK).
Even with the metric there are still many sizes needed, which I agree is frustrating. However, it ensures the correct bit size is used for the correct screw. Unlike Phillips, pozidriv and slotted. It also limits the amount of torque that can be applied to a screw that is proportional to the screws thickness.
The prevalence of low quality screws and tools for hex drives is because they are cheaper to manufacture. Its unfair to reduce the rank of the drive mechanism for that. If the average hex screw and driver were built with the same quality of materials as the average torx this would be less of an issue.
I would recommend you use a screwdriver with hex bit heads instead of Allen keys, if you need to use hex screws a lot. Much more pleasant experience and much less likely to bend and twist like Allen wrenches.
Well designed things and screws should come with appropriate drives. I wouldn’t recommend using a wrench on internal hex drives. If they needed high torque they should be external hex like a traditional bolt. Only external hex, large torque and large internal hex should be applied with a wrench. Other drive systems should be used when hand tightening is all that is needed. I’ve learned the hard way tighter isn’t always better.
Well, yeah.
I appreciate your passion for the superior type of fastener. I work in both metric and imperial for all types of fastener and metric allen is the easiest to work with in my opinion.
Yeah there’s no telling which standard you’ll encounter in the US, Probably both on the same machine.
And ain’t it funny that Allen is pretty much the only case where the most available drivers are cheap as shit L-shaped pieces of “tool” steel? Yeah, “allen screws and drivers are cheaper to manufacture” which is why they’re almost universally cheaper and shittier. Improve the quality of anything for the hell of it and guess the fuck what? The quality goes up. My algebra teacher taught me about that, it’s the transitive property of obvious bullshit.
I could be talked into bumping Hex up to B, I just want it between Phillips and Robertson.
I don’t have any experience with Pozi screws in the US, but doing a quick search they look like a solid upgrade over Phillips, so I’m guessing I would agree if I actually used them.
You get the self centering speed of Phillips with less cam out. It’s standard for most construction style work, very useful when you need to do 100+ screws a day.
It can be a bit of a nightmare when you first start doing DIY. Because you may not recognise the difference between Pozi and Phillips. Both drivers will turn each screw, but the wrong driver will make cam out and stripping more likely.
Pozidriv should be fucking banned oh my god why is it so common in the uk it’s so deeply inappropriate for 99.99% of applications
If you use the right driver and right size of driver. It’s very good. In my experience it’s much better than Phillips.
Torx, hex and Robertson are better, but they don’t self centre. So if your doing a lot of screwing, pozi drive is king. Because it self centres, it’s much faster. It’s great for construction type work (decking, plasterboard, walls etc).
If your doing more fine work, or need to apply a lot of torque it’s shouldn’t be used. But very long/thick screws tend to be external hex, torx or combinations of these at Screwfix/Toolstation.
Pozidriv is what Phillips should have been all along, except that bed has already been shat. It’s like the American electrical socket, someone made a decision in 1902 that we’re still stuck with and modern attempts to improve it just get in the way.
Pozi is amazing for household applications where you don’t need the torque of torx, and amazing for line work where screws won’t be touched ever again (framing etc.)