During the 2015 election campaign, Justin Trudeau vowed that his government would never purchase the F-35.
As prime minister, Trudeau continued to point out the Canadian military had no need for the F-35. “Canadians know full well that, for 10 years, the Conservatives completely missed the boat when it came to delivering to Canadians and their armed forces the equipment they needed,” Trudeau said in June 2016. “They clung to an aircraft (the F-35) that does not work and is far from working.”
The Liberal government also noted the F-35’s “stealth first-strike capability” was not needed to defend Canada.
But Trudeau flipped on his election promise, not only committing to the purchase but increasing the number of jets from the 65 the Conservatives had wanted to buy to 88.
Meh, you can find them for like $75 million here in the states if you shop around…
bit of a fixer upper
username checks out
My neighbour has an F-35. Or maybe it’s an F-150. Whatever.
150 is a much higher number - we should buy those instead.
With the shit that Russia is pulling now, we’re going to be very glad we have these.
Stealth isn’t just a “first strike capability”, it’s the cornerstone of all modern combat. The way you win any fight, on the ground, at sea, or in the air, is by being able to engage the enemy before they can engage you.
Right now Russia does not have a true stealth capable fifth gen fighter. The SU-57 is, even according to Russia’s numbers, “low visibility” at best. And Russia has maybe six of those. With the F-35 Canada outmatches every single plane Russia is capable of putting in the sky, to an absolutely ridiculous degree.
I don’t like the fact that we have to think about questions like “What if Putin goes so far into crazy town that he actually launches an invasion of Canada through the Arctic”, but recent events have demonatrated that that possibility really does exist, and we need to plan for it. Or, at least, we need to make the prospect so unpalatable that he wouldn’t consider it.
And to head off a couple of obvious questions:
“But the Philippines just defeated a stealth plane using a regular jet.”
It was carrying drop tanks. Under no real peer-to-peer combat scenario would that plane ever be carrying drop tanks. They completely ruin the stealth capabilities of the craft. Where Russia historically inflates the capabilities of their equipment, America does the opposite, always making their top tier stuff seem worse than it is so that no one can plan to beat it.
“But I’ve heard that the F-35 was an expensive disaster that can’t do anything well.”
The man you heard this from, once you trace the claim back to its source, will inevitably turn out to have been Pierre Sprey. Sprey got a lot of time on CNN and other news shows (including, frequently, Russia Today) as an “expert”. He is not. He claimed to have designed the F-15, the F-16, and the A-10. In reality he sat in on one meeting about the F-15, and had basically nothing to do with the other projects.
Sprey was (he died a couple of years ago) a lunatic who believes that modern technology is too complicated and holds back the capabilities of well trained soldiers. You know, modern technology like radar and missiles. Sprey genuinely advocated for all aircraft to be replaced with single seat fighters armed with a cannon and nothing else (look up the “Blitz fighter”). He was an idiot who somehow lied his way into a career as an expert on TV despite having no actual expertise. The world is better for his passing.
There’s already been a confirmed F-35 damaged by a “bird strike” over Syria… The F-35 was certified against bird strikes to a higher standard than most other American jets. Given the amount of lies coming out of the IDF in the Gaza conflict, I wouldn’t be surprised if the F-35 was targettable by Russian S-200/S-300 systems and the IDF is covering it up to avoid absolutely destroying the international reputation of the F-35.
The problem is, Canadian F-35 operations in the Arctic (really, the only area we have to defend against Russia) would almost certainly require drop tanks. In that scenario, the F-35 is fucked. This is even as F-35 maintenance requires the use of American military contractors that can be weeks or even months away, particularly if we do decide to operate F-35s out of Arctic bases.
Never thought Fat Amy would outclass anything, that boondoggle.
Hey. Remember when the oxygen was broken?!?
In direct air to air engagements Fat Amy outclasses everything except the F-22, and Congress has made it illegal for us to buy the F-22 (which, btw, was the plane with the broken oxygen, not the F-35).
So why don’t we just hide under america/alaska
Total program costs end up being ~$18M/yr per plane for 45 years. Not horrible for a 5th gen fighter.
Still not cheap.Who would win (funding)?
- A high speed rail project between Quebec City and Windsor 🚅
- Some wooshy bois 🛩
Why not both? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I figure from a back of the napkin-level math over a comparable service life the two projects would be within an order of magnitude of each other in today’s dollars.
This is actually news in reverse. Considering present world situation (Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan in the works) and the fact that between election in 2016 and now situation is absolutely and categorically different, Canada does need modern fleet. War in Ukraine highlighted all of the weaknesses of old equipment as well as prompted NATO members to be ready to depmoy forces outside of their own borders (yes, russia won’t be attacking Canada, but it may attack nearby NATO states and Canada will have to step in. Sending our pilots for slaughter under those conditions is wreckless).
While I’m no fan of JT and his flipping on promisses, this time I think there’s credit due. Article title should’ve read: “Canadian government reacted to military escalations around the globe by moving forward with fleet upgrade”. We can debate what should fleet be upgraded to, but the fact that it has to be upgraded is obvious.
Yeah, the article headline should be “Speech loving PM actually makes good call and reverses decision to not buy F-35s”.
Particularly now that the jet is looking less like a lemon, and that it’s function of being an intelligence sharing hub to drones and smart missiles seems to be looking more and more critical.
It does seem like investing in disposable kill drones is maybe the best route right now for military spending?
if anything, war in Ukraine has shown that it’s not all about big equipment if you want to hold position, but to move, you need heavy stuff
On the Ukrainian side, one of the issues they’re running into, as far as I understand it, is long range missiles being fired from jets inside Russian territory.
From my understanding, firing and guiding long range missiles is exactly what the F-35
Is good at.that too. So no matter how you slice it we do need those jets. Couple of years ago I’d be arguing otherwise.
Hell, I’d have been right there with you.
Wondering if waiting/delaying the eventual purchase of F-35 ended up being more expensive for Canada overall? Or did it become less expensive per “plane” (including servicing/maintenance contract, training, etc.) considering the manufacturing processes have been streamlined since then?
This is fine and expected, media just loves to run a headline with a big number to farm clicks. There is no real news here.
Few military assets are more expensive than fighter jets. Our CF-18s are verging on obsolete and the costs of just keeping them in the air is ballooning as every single part of them are going beyond their operational lives.
We basically won’t have an air fleet in 2 decades if we don’t buy the F-35s now, and trying to refurbish the CF-18s while we hold out for the next generation or something will cost us tens of billions in refurbishment and maintenance fees alone while running an air fleet that can only keep up with 3rd rate air forces. Even if we can somehow hold on until a newer and more cost effective jet comes to market, any discount we can get from that will be nothing compared to the extra cost of keeping the CF-18s running. Not to mention the pure reduction in capacity in the meantime. We still have to patrol the north, and anything we use for that can’t be spending weeks under maintenance between sorties.
Gee, if only we had election reform to help us get a better leader.
Yet another promise he broke. Not that I believe any promises politicians make.
He didn’t buy it in that election, and frankly its warranted now. China and Israel seem to be angling for WW3 from the opposite sides.
Québec city wanted to build a simple trawmay in the city, nothing fancy. Cost was quoted 10-12 billion $.
