so if you haven’t come across it, see here , here , here and here .

in short, one side says sources are pro-imperialist, the other side believes they’re legitimate sources. then there is one user thinking we have been targeted by troll farms, one accusing others of being conspiracy theorists and stuff like that. it’s one of the most unproductive arguements I’ve seen on Lemmy, something that looks like one those downvoted-to-oblivian threads on reddit. it’s just a mess.

I think we can do a few things to prevent such pointless fights in the future:

  1. my favoriate response would be creating a community of fact-checker Lemmurs. it’ll function similar to a wikipedia talk page, anyone can request a trial for an article shared on c/worldnews , then they will present evidence and sources to challenge the article, while the other side attempts to do the same. personal attacks, accusing of being a troll, asking for a call on jitsi to debate face to face (like seriously?!?!) will be forbidden. both sides will debate untill they reach an agreement. trying to go off-topic, bad faith arguements etc will be forbidden as well.

each time we reach a conclusion, a positive or negative point will be assigned to news source and to the person who posted it. best contributers who show the least bias will get a point as well. overtime it will help us to see if a source is really good or not.

  1. a much easier approch would be to let downvotes and upvotes decide the fate of each post. I understand that this is the whole point of lemmy and similar platforms, but right now we have the problem of each side using downvotes and upvotes like it’s a battle. posts about internet censoreship and tiny pigs are being downvoted because the person who posts them trusts the Guardian and other news outlets.

  2. we can limit the number of posts on c/worldnews to minimize the amount of personal attacks and arguements.

so what do you think? I personally think as more users come to lemmy, we’ll be dealling with more diverse opinions, and people might just engage in behaviors that harms the platform and benefits no one. this will be a real problem considering that Lemmy leans far-left. in my opinion having a fact-checking community will be neccessary if we don’t want fact-based communities turn into battlefields.

ps: am I going too far and overreacting? to be honest I don’t know xD I just think there’s no chance for productive political arguements if we can’t agree on the facts, and i see no point in what’s happening on c/worldnews right now.

  • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
    67·
    4 years ago

    blasting it with their sources, graphics and alternative history to things

    the cultural genocide of the Uighurs in China

    I remember trying to give some level headed information when the Israel and Palestine conflict, then (some of them are the actual developers of lemmy) blasted it with all their stuff, pushing for basically just crushing Israel

    the previously mentioned denial of current and historical genocides

    I love how you take a jab at people with calling them alternative truthers, like others do not state facts and you are the arbiter of truth getting victimised. That speaks a bunch about you, honestly.

    You called Grayzone propaganda, right, while defending CNN, BBC as established, reputed news media? https://lemmy.ml/post/67429

    You want to know about Uyghur genocide? Try to debunk a single point in this long video and do come back for a debate here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yURIS7S9zg

    You want to know about Israel-Palestine conflict? Use news sources with no economic conflict of interest.

    my Palestinian friend chat

    You want to have a conversation and not destroy Lemmy?

    • Stop spamming news media of one kind of political ideology (and use fungal cream for those itches),
    • stop claiming biased Western neoliberal and neocon warmongering media as reputed,
    • stop claiming others are alternative conspiracy truthers without factual backing,
    • refute arguments without memes or trolling,
    • stop supporting and pushing false political narratives,
    • be prepared to get egged on if you push false narratives,
    • stop trying to divide community for making space for yourself
    • try to foster and aid a nice environment

    Come back for the Uyghur genocide and Israel-Palestine debates. Let me end your selective human rights concerns and doubts here, so that you never try to resurrect these topics until any new developments from non propagandist sources appear for them to become a talking point.

    You can also debate with me human rights concerns about Middle East, Belarus, Libya, South Asia, Central and South American countries if you like, since you are so concerned about human rights from the imperialist news sources you like to read. Spoiler: you keep getting played and you like it to avoid boredom

    Edit: our awesome fellow instantly downvoted me, LOL

    screenshot

    • Helix@lemmy.ml
      4·
      4 years ago

      Can you remove all the insults and stick to facts? You don’t display a very deescalative language. Just throwing in some random youtube link proves nothing. BBC is established and certainly not the complete mouthpiece you claim it to be. There’s a difference between biased western media and western propaganda outlets. It’s not like the BBC is just a random asshat’s blog…

      • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
        17·
        4 years ago

        If you claim that a 1.5 hour video with 20+ sources is a random YouTube link, then it may be the case that you are the problem. Sorry mate, BBC is UK government propaganda outlet and that is facts. BBC is somewhat Queen Elizabeth and the Royal Family’s blog, as far as political news goes.

        • Helix@lemmy.ml
          51·
          4 years ago

          a 1.5 hour video with 20+ sources

          Mhk. Most sources are twitter, reddit, other youtube videos and pro-Chinese blogs and media outlets. From clicking through, not a very unbiased discussion of a topic, especially adding that the guy wears a fucking balaclava and the title is clickbait. This is not neutral reporting.

          Small domain name statistics on the google doc with ““sources””:

           24 youtube.com
 16 twitter.com
  8 globaltimes.cn
  4 thegrayzone.com
  3 reddit.com
  2 medium.com
  1 chinese-embassy.org.uk
  1 congress.gov
  1 csis.org
  1 docdroid.net
  1 documents.buzzfeednews.com
  1 historicly.substack.com
  1 i.redd.it
  1 law.cornell.edu
  1 ned.org
  1 quora.com
  1 sydney.chineseconsulate.org
  1 translate.google.com
  1 un.org
  1 xinhuanet.com

          Since they claim themselves

          We did not have time to put the bibliography information on this, but these are the links that appear in the order of the video. We are able to continuously update this list if needed!

          I can’t be arsed to jump to the corresponding parts of the 1.5h video with sources other than social media sites either, since the majority of the video seems to be about youtube and twitter content. Ain’t nobody got time fo’ dat.

          • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
            15·
            4 years ago

            You do not know what neutral reporting means, if you can just claim “pro Chinese blogs” and such kind of baseless shite. You are being incredibly dishonest since you cannot even bother to go through the sources that the video shows.

            If you or whoever else “Ain’t nobody got time fo’ dat.”, then you or others should not make baseless dismissal statements like these, because then you are simply being anti academia.

            Also, why do you care about balaclava? And the title is not clickbait, the content does exactly that.

            • Helix@lemmy.ml
              31·
              4 years ago

              anti academia

              [posts youtube video with 24 links to youtube, 16 to twitter etc.]

              Other sources:

              Please, show me one proper paper by a Chinese university or proper journalistic outlet who don’t just republish Chinese officials’ statements.

              Oh wait, I found a pretty good article amongst the sources debunking a BBC interview. At least they’re trying to stay with the facts:

              • Breaking down the BBC’s visit to Hotan, Xinjiang – seems like the BBC didn’t find a lot of information and sensationalised their findings. I agree that most of the stuff found there is exaggerated. However, re-education camps are something westerners see with a grain of salt. Let’s assume they’re just that, re-education camps. Why is there not a single non-Uyghur in those camps? I don’t know much about the Uyghurs but even I think that there’s something inherently wrong in specifically targeting a Muslim minority and “re-educating” them into proper Chinese citizens with Chinese beliefs.

              I’m not sure there’s a genocide going on, but your cute youtube video proves nothing, only that the propaganda machine of China works just as well as the western propaganda machine.

              The fact that the youtube video’s creator couldn’t even bother editing the titles in or give a sentence of context or even a timestamp where the source was used speaks for itself, I think.

              I took over an hour to watch most of the video, just to find out my assumptions that this is a badly threwn together circlejerk are mostly correct.

              • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
                16·
                4 years ago

                does not care to read or watch content of sources

                tries to make nonsensical claims about content of sources

                academia 100

                • Helix@lemmy.ml
                  21·
                  4 years ago

                  I watched the whole video in the meantime on 1.25-1.5 speed (had to slow down due to the guy mumbling all the time) and most, if not all of the stuff is hearsay. This is not a proper scientific article or even video.

                  • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
                    24·
                    4 years ago

                    Your claims are so BS, let me take a dunk at you, as you waste my time away from my sister and baby’s visit which I have been busy with today. And why have you made two replies while editing one of the replies? To throw off me and other readers?

                    Australian think tank ASPI found linked to prison labor, human trafficking – no words about Uyghurs. Maybe whataboutism.

                    Whataboutism claims are the Western pseudo intellectual’s pet dog whistle. Hypocrisy noted is not whataboutism.

                    So-called Xinjiang detainees lie on ‘victims’ stories about training centers: regional govt – local government says “we don’t detain people”.

                    Detaining people, hmm, what does it mean in the context of what you cited? “Victims” like Sayragul Sautbey have changed their stories on BBC 3 times in 24 hours. This is how unreliable testimonies on Uyghur treatment in reeducation camps is.

                    China FM Spokesperson: Disinformation about Xinjiang Has No Factual Basis and Will Collapse One Day Like a Sandcastle – we talked with a Chinese official bla bla bla. That person is neither a researcher nor a journalist, they’re a Chinese official. A party official. It’s like if you asked Biden if the US Army did human rights violations

                    That is such a BS false equivalence, I cannot even comprehend the incompetence of this rhetoric. Chinese and USA governments are two different beasts, and you could possibly not equate the functioning of a government that allows concentration camps and War on Terror, compared to one that is not killing away Muslims.

                    Why is there not a single non-Uyghur in those camps?

                    Because Uyghurs are the ones being radicalised by ETIM, Al Qaeda associate, which Pompeo delisted last year from terrorist organisation list? Perhaps read about Salafi Wahhabis, they radicalise Uyghurs to commit terrorist attacks in China, from 1993 upto 2013-14. Uyghurs are the ones that happen to live in the Afghan, Xinjiang, Turkey and the North Western belt in Asia.

                    I have seen Westerners creating disgusting epithets, calling China a Nazi Germany country, without factual basis. And you are contributing to the development of such rhetorics by claiming BBC and such state media is reliable, while Chinese state media is wrong.

                    I could go on and on, explaining this stuff, but I see a bias in your views, which I think is hard to change, as you just want to generalise the narrative instead of getting to the nuances, and labelling media XYZ without factual basis or unbiased analysis. It gets hard when you try and explain such complicated situations with half sentences.

        • Lowey@lemmy.ml
          11·
          4 years ago

          BBC does have bias, but that does not mean they make up Uyghur genocide and the cultural dissemination of the Uyghur people.