I’m very glad to see that US workers finally start to make their voices heard on a meaningful scale!
And a little amused at the utter inability of managements to deal with a world in which “just boss the underlings around, because we can” isn’t a viable tactic anymore.
It’s giving me hope for the future of workers, I’m thinking of deeper effects strikes like this could have. Thousands of people going on strike, a lot of them likely for the first time. If these get results, thousands of people will know first hand the power of class-consciousness and collective action, without relying on voting or petitions but concrete action. It will inspire their views going forward and inspire other workers.
Very happy to see workers from different industries finally standing up for their rights and forcing the companies to the negotiating table, and winning.
Unions are awesome, and strikes work.
I used to truck drive for a while and if there is any industry that needs to stand up for themselves it is that on.
I worked for Warner and the CEOs slogan was " You make less now to make more later" super dumb.
That’s fucked up. You should have been a teamster. Those boys have a pretty strong union.
I am a dues-paying member of IUPAT Painters Local 10 and will be till the day I die!
That worked out well for Yellow…
Haven’t won anything yet
WGA did. I’m hoping SAG-AFTRA will too, you probably won’t see me here as much after the strike is done though.
Kaiser-Permanente workers did as well.
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It’s a long time for a hospital.
Keep up the good work. You’re a great avocate.
Avocato*
Sorry, bad joke and all. I just had to though
That’s Academy Award nominated avocado Margot Robbie to you!
I really love that Lemmy is small enough that I keep running into your account all over.
Holy guacamole it’s Margot Robbie
Can’t win if you don’t play cuz
What is a Kentucky truck
Quick search says
Kentucky Truck is Ford’s largest plant and one of the largest auto factories in America and the world
kentucky truck refers to the ford plant in kentucky that makes a number of trucks for ford, mostly their commercial fleet, that accounts for around half of ford’s revenue
the meaning here is that the kentucky truck plant has ceased operation as part of the strike
The largest truck plant Ford has. They manufactured everything from industrial diesel trucks to pickups. Now they’re on strike, this promises to be a huge blow to Ford’s quarterlies.
Kentucky Truck is one of the biggest Ford plants.
A truck from the Kentucky factory?
I wonder.
Too fucking right! Local 10 till I die!
Is there a way I can donate to a pool that directly helps striking workers? If there’s not, is there a way to start a go fund me and hand control over to a union representative?
A-ha ! sounds good ! Did they seize the means of production or what ?
That’s a little too far for America, unfortunately.
It’s way too far in any capitalist country. These shithead will send armies of cops if you do that.
The closest the U.S. has ever had to a socialist candidate becoming president, he was in prison at the time. And even then, he barely got any votes comparatively speaking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs
And no, I don’t count Bernie. He’s not really a socialist. He’s just to the left of everyone else in the Senate.
And in Europe he’d be center-left.
Looks like they just expanded their strike, so no… not yet.
I’m glad to see these workers getting what they want but don’t we all know the cost of whatever they get will just be passed on to the consumer and further balloon the price of cars? If car prices get much higher you’ll have to be a factory worker making 100k just to buy one.
So executive bonuses and salaries can keep skyrocketing with no consequence, but workers getting what they need is what you complain about?
No. I’m complaining that what they are getting is just a bandaid to the problem. These workers getting paid more won’t stop executive bonuses and salaries from skyrocketing and the money to fund those bonuses will just be pulled from our pockets. Until some regulation is in place to fix the underlying issue, employers and employees will just keep trading blows and running up the cost. Everyone is acting like these car companies are suddenly going to stop doing what they’ve been doing for decades.
Oh yeah because cars are selling close to cost and not at hyper inflated prices.
Come on, the current insane prices aren’t because it costs so much to pay workers that make them, it’s because people are willing to pay it. If people stopped paying insane prices for cars and they were rotting on lots, prices would go down- but people get their 6 year finance on their 85k 2024 whatever.
And very little of the recent explosion in car prices is from the manufacturers. It’s the dealerships.
Just a few years ago NOBODY paid sticker price. That’s still true, but now it’s because the dealerships are charging 20-50 percent ABOVE stocker price
I agree. Nothing they’re striking for will fix this though.
I’m not disagreeing with you but it seems naive to think that these companies would do anything but pass the cost along and keep paying execs way too much. Are we really under the assumption that car manufacturers are going to accept making less money?
Of course not- but they wont have a choice if people stop ponying up. As long as people keep enabling the high prices, they’ll keep charging them. The market will only support so much of this before someone comes with with a a more reasonable price and starts taking all the sales. Then it’ll be a race to the bottom again.
The workers shouldn’t be the ones to suffer so that we have cheaper cars. The greed of the ownership class has to be contained.
Agreed but this strike isn’t going to do that.
Why not?
The big automakers are already pricing themselves out of most consumers reach.
Hell at this point you’re not even buying a car, you’re buying a 7-10 year loan and getting a car as part of it. The car itself exists only as a means to sell the loan (and long-term service).
You never own the car any more, it runs closed source offline software that farms you for data. It is a rented tool for the neo digital feudal serf class. Ownership is only a right for citizens. Proprietary means ownership through a loss of agency. Once ownership rights are lost slavery follows. This is the true legacy of our time that people will talk about for hundreds of years.
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Not sure where this is going.
This neocon “pass on the cost” lie is so pervasive it sounds convincing until you think about it for two seconds. If that were true, then I would just “pass on the cost” of my labor and charge my employer more for my wages. But that’s not how the economy works. The shareholders and executives will just make a little less.
It’s a little more nuanced than that. Prices are always set to “what the market will bear.” By complaining about the additional labor costs (or patting themselves on the back for their benevolence), they may be able to shift market attitudes to increase the price, thus 'passing it on."
also all the anti-trust violations and monopolies help with the price gouging. We don’t have real regulation for crony capitalism in the USA.
Hell, the GOP seems to think there’s no such thing anymore, and that capitalism is a magical machine that needs no regulation at all.
That’s not how it works because the majority of us don’t get to adjust the rate of our labor on the fly. Passing the cost to consumers literally happens all the time and it’s not a secret.
Don’t be a crab.
The definition of a bootlicker
Not bootlicking. Just being realistic about the capitalist tendencies of any large company beholden to shareholders.
Who is upvoting this brain dead take?
Cars are sold for as much as they possibly can get consumers to pay. If they managed to lower the cost of production, price would also remain exactly the same because… They are charging as much as they possibly can.
Everything between the cost of making the car and that price is profit to shareholders.
So you actually think this strike is going to fundamentally change how they do business? With no additional regulation they will just decide to make less money and make no attempt to do exactly what they’ve been doing all these years which is to increase profits at all costs.
Sounds like as good a time as ever to start ditching cars and moving to/building communities that allow us to affordably exist without owning one.
!fuck [email protected]
And fewer people will be able to afford their products.
I don’t think most people buy a car they can actually afford anyways. They take loans with ridiculously long notes and as long as the payment from month to month sounds good they’ll sign.
Is it? The Big 3 have made significant concessions at this point. There Is a certain level where a plant like that could move to Mexico. Dodge Ram has about half of its production in Mexico and their sales volume has not been impacted.
Just to keep the record straight, they are currently offering elimination of tiers, 3 years to the max wage level, 23% pay increase, COLA reinstatement. This puts their workers in a place to make $100k per year with no education at all after 3 years of work. Where else is that possible?
Those concessions don’t apply to their EV factories, both existing and new, meaning they are worthless in 5-10 years when they phase ICE out. They want, and frankly deserve, long term guarantees.
“The company said it had offered pay increases of more than 20% to permanent workers, raises of 26% for temporary workers, the return of cost-of-living adjustments, a ratification bonus, increased 401(k) contributions, additional paid time off and “no job loss due to EV battery plants,” among other things” https://www.axios.com/2023/10/12/uaw-strike-update-ford-shawn-fain
Incorrect. And you’re dreaming if you think commercial trucks in particular (F-series and SuperDuty) move to all electric in the next 5-10 years
As of 10/4:
Ford has not agreed to restore defined-benefit pensions and company-financed health care in retirement for all workers. Ford says it is also opposed to a UAW demand to guarantee that future battery factories will offer the same pay and benefits as existing factories.
The UAW says that GM still isn’t meeting the union’s demands on cost-of-living adjustment to wages. And GM hasn’t agreed to allow workers to strike over plant closures.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/04/uaw-strike-automaker-offers/
My article is from the 12th. Crazy thing about negotiations, your article from 10/4 is wrong. The date matters and you are providing outdated information.
The article you linked doesn’t contradict, or even mention, the UAW demands and concerns I quoted from my article dated 10/4. Can you please provide an article stating that between the 4th and the time of your original comment, either of the specific concerns were addressed with concessions from Ford & GM? The meme is literally referencing the company’s failure to update their offer since the last negotiation meeting.
Otherwise, I have to make the usual assumption of troll or disingenuous interlocutor.
Edit: Yup, UAW states quite clearly that the offer hadn’t changed from two weeks ago. Please stop arguing in bad faith.
And you’re dreaming if you think commercial trucks in particular (F-series and SuperDuty) move to all electric in the next 5-10 years
Check out the title of this article. GM is aiming to phase out ICE in 12 years. No it’s not Ford, and goals aren’t always met but the transition is happening sooner or later.
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I don’t understand this mindset.
“The workers should be lucky they aren’t getting fair compensation because they are uneducated half wits.” “who cares that they have up more than what they are currently asking back in 2008?” “I mean their labor created record profits for the companies, and what they are asking for isn’t even 10% of those profits, but the shareholders and executives deserve that 10% more!”
Ya no. It’s about them getting a slice of the profits. Acting as workers are not deserving of greater amounts due to their labor is a joke. The 40% increase is low considering they generated $32 billion last year. They could demand immediate pay increases of $80k but are asking for $32k over the life of the contract.
Just because they work on assembly lines doesn’t make them “uneducated half wits” either. They are still jobs that require a level of skill to perform well. I’d like to see any “C” level Ford executive perform similar tasks for hours a day with the same levels of quality and skill.
I know. OP and people like him think that. But it doesn’t matter! The number one benefactor in a companies success should always be the worker not some CEO or hedge fund manger.
Meanwhile the CxO ranks got 40% raises years ago.
And the workers took pay cuts earlier. A 40% increase is less impressive when you take a 15% cut first. (That’s a 19% net increase, but this isn’t based on actual numbers.)
Who gives a shit? Their comp has little to do with the rank and file. They are entirely unrelated. Farley could donate his entire comp package and it would result in a roughly $300 payment to UAW workers. UAW also gets profit sharing and a ratification bonus, meanwhile the rest of the salaried workforce - many of whom earn similar wages to UAW, will get fucked because they have actual performance metrics to hit that are being fucked by this.
I’d also add that as a reward for having the most UAW workers in the US, Ford also has had the highest structural cost and the worst quality for 2 years running, likely 3 as measured by recalls. So they do terrible work and still get the same bonus, entirely independent of their performance.
Who gives a shit?
Most workers in America give a shit. People deserve to be more than modern day wage slaves that spend their entire paycheck on necessities, never getting ahead or being able to save for retirement. If you think this us ok, you should re-evaluate whether you’re actually for lifting people out of poverty or not.
Fuck man, even $300 is something to these people.
They’re talking nonsense in the first place, but imagine thinking $300 is a meaningless amount of money. I would have to be making CEO wages.
How much do you think a UAW worker makes? Just curious
According to this average is $28 an hour, which quite frankly is low as fuck. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/detroit/news/how-much-does-a-uaw-worker-make/
You’re neglecting the profit sharing. That has been between $9-15k over the last couple years. They also get a 401k match of like 6%. So that brings their average comp to about $35 per hour. They also frequently get overtime.
For perspective, $28 per hour with no overtime puts them in the 58th percentile and adding in profit sharing places them in the 66th percentile for US workers. So making more than 2/3 of the working population is in fact not “low as fuck”
Man, I don’t think you’re the type of person to see eye to eye with a workers right type asshole like me, but if $72,000 a year to you is an acceptable wage in this particular day and age, with inflation and housing prices going the way they’re going, then we don’t have much to say to one another. They should always fight for higher wage and I will support them all the way, educated work or not.
Holy fuck are you aggressively stupid. Impressive in a pitiful way, but blocked all the same. Take your literally retarded thoughts somewhere else, son.
If everyone keeps blocking these guys, they end up dominating the conversation.
It’s called having an informed position and debating. Lemmings seem incapable of doing that. I’ve presented nothing but a fact based position, and yet I’ve received nothing but ad hominem attacks, poorly researched (and outdated, incorrect) rebuttals, and just ridiculous comments.
I work in this industry and I’m trying to provide context and nuance that is consistently missing here. I’m going to bet that none of the people responding with such vitriol even have a remote understanding of the industry or what the workers get paid.
Whatever, I lean left and I think the UAW is overplaying their hand. They’re going to do more harm in the long run - they already have an excellent deal on the table that gets them the majority of what they want. The supply base is already weak from Covid, a prolonged strike means suppliers have to lay off workers and possibly close. That represents far more workers than the UAW, multiples even. In addition, there are more than double the UAW ranks in salaried positions that will also be harmed by a prolonged strike.
Again, to pay for UAW workers earning in the 80th percentile (assuming their average comp increases to $100k with the deal on the table) the companies will look for efficiencies elsewhere. (For the astonishing number of users that apparently need to hear this - 80th percentile means more than 8 out of 10 working adults in the US)
We are being asked to look to Mexico and India for salaried positions and question if a function needs to be done here. So it isn’t just factory work that can be off-shored, it’s knowledge work and it is broader than just IT support or customer service.
I don’t feel informed enough to have an opinion on that, I’m just pointing out how blocking people who say stuff you disagree with is a bad idea.
What is your enlightened position then? You can barely string a sentence together lol
Dodge Ram has about half of its production in Mexico and their sales volume has not been impacted.
To a certain degree. But I just want to give you a size of scope and realize it isn’t just labor that effects where a company is located, but also the tax rate, the ability to get resources in and out, also the cost of extracting materials and having them shipped, and cooperation with local government(s).
But biggest problem a CEO has to face when moving to a new country is how the hell all that equipment gets there. You aren’t talking about moving computer equipment, you are talking about hundreds of Press Wielding machines that are measured in tons and acres.
What you are talking about, moving hundreds of miles of electrical wiring, hundreds of tons of pinpoint accurate equipment, thousands of computer networking systems with their own unique operating system, and we haven’t even gotten to power regulations, and labor yet.
TL:DR
If these companies could save money by moving to Mexico, they would have already tried.Agreed that it would be gone if it was feasible. I worked for a small manufacturer and helped with quoting. It was three times less for us to send a product to Mexico for production.
Where the US is better is automation and complexity. In Mexico or was difficult to find the technical resources able to handle automated and complex projects. Mexico was better for any manually/ sinple assembly job, as they could just throw more people at it to ramp up production. Note that these are generalities that my specific team used.
You know Ford already has factory operations in Mexico, right?
- Mexico: Mermosillo Stamping and Assembly Plant
- Mexico: Cauatitlan Stamping and Assembly Plant
Keep in mind, that the combined total employees at these facilities is about 3000 employees, vs. the 10,000 employee plant in Kentucky.
So if we are talking about scale, I do not think it is fair comparison to say that a 6% of Ford’s operations in Mexico is worth 16% of it’s production in one factory.
Nor is it fair to assume that someone is going to snap their fingers and suddenly a new factory that can equal the production of the US is going to appear in Mexico. Or that Ford is just going to abandon a literal car factory just because labor in Mexico is cheaper.
I believe both of those plants are unionized as well, so Ford may not like what will happen if they decide to strike in solidarity with American workers.
record profits mean record contracts
solidarity with all workers forever
How do those boots taste?
Mexican vehicle plants are showing signs of worker solidarity with their US compatriots. They have unions that were not even voted in, thats leaders vote on contracts without membership votes. https://inthesetimes.com/article/uaw-strike-international-solidarity-mexico-brazil-union-labor
If this was the 1990s that might have worked, but today is different for Mexico. There are hundreds of factory’s now and do you think Mexicans are going to want to work for a company that moved from America for not paying it’s workers enough? Also one of Ford’s main advertising points is that the cars are made in America, not very smart to destroy your advertising. Conditions are always changing in the world, it’s best to keep an eye of them lest you get left behind.
Ford’s vehicles are not all made in the USA already. A little basic research goes a long way before sprouting nonsense.
No issues in Cuatelan building the Maverick or the Mach E. Your argument is ridiculous
They can still say “made in America “ because Mexico is in America. North America.
That would not work. The English speaking world doesn’t use America like that Ford would get sued as operations would still be in the US and lose.
They downvoted you, but in Spanish speaking countries, America is a single continent, with North, South, center and Caribbean just being regions
I dunno what Spanish speaking country you’re from, but every Spanish speaker I’ve ever known has used “America” to casually refer to the USA.
Soy de México y le dicen Estados Unidos en todo latino América
Here’s a meme from a chilean cartoonist:
You can also check the Wikipedia page under the section “Number”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent
The six-continent combined-America model is taught in Greece and many Romance-speaking countries—including Latin America.[34][42]
Have you really ever heard someone from Jalisco or whatever refer to themselves as “American”?
From the continent America, yes
Hopefully we’ll see that the possibility of skilled workers with no education can also take part. And that pay is stagent. In 1995… 50k a year w benifits health care and retirement is now the new 80k - 100k a year. Even then take home and savings is less then it’s ever been in 30 years.
Follow the math of rising cost and inflation , and the increase of CEO pays and you one can conclude, workers can be paid more and should match cost ans inflation increases. People with schooling should make more. True.
Many companies do pay more and they make their competition looks like hacks.
Market Basket is a unionized grocery chain in the northeast. In Saco Maine there is a market basket right near a super Walmart. Market Basket is awesome… but I digress.
The Makret basket has 30 checkout isles and 1 cashier and 1 bagger per checkout. They are paid very well. That’s 60 employees just in the check out. Their prices are the same and many times are less then Walmart. Walmart right across the way… 5 minutes walk…, is 100% self checkout. Pays about half, Stores completly trashed, prices are not cheper, you gotta check your self out … and its doubtful there’s even 10 staffers in store.
In ending the older you get… the more it seems absurd to pay the younger gen that much… however follow the math.
https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1996?amount=50000
50k in 1996 is worth 98k in today’s numbers. Also remember a job back then…came with healthcare that covered you at 80 bucks a month. Retirement plans exisisted … you’d even get bonus and go to company parties that were paid by owners.
You got a bit of brown on your nose
What’s that $100k a year adjusted to inflation compared to in your mind?
$100k per year is the 81st percentile of all US workers for 2022. Inflation in 2023 has been around 4%, so even with that they would still earn more than 8 out of 10 working adults in the US.
It’s not in my mind, it’s just math.
$100k per year is the equivalent of $57k/yr in 2000. Inflation has gone wild in the last 20 years.
That is an average of 2.5% inflation. It’s really more of an issue of inflated cost of Healthcare and stagnating wages as a result. Of course this is just one contributing factor, bit it is a huge one.
Which is why 100k is a reasonable ask. 50k would have been reasonable in 2000.
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