Being done properly and with clear communication would fall under my “at best” scenario with it just not being my thing, but your comment is important. I never meant to make it sound like BDSM is inherently “dangerous” or whatever.

Right. The BDSM world has very strict rules. If you’re ever with a partner who “wants to try bdsm” without multiple conversations beforehand, then walk away. Aftercare is also a huge and important part of BDSM.

The sex trafficers lied about the public uploads, never used the company’s actual name, had fake “previous models” that vouched for the vidoes being private, and even had the cameraman say that he would never shoot “public” porn. They would lie to the models about what was in the contracts, and never gave them copies. They often got them drunk/high before shooting while having them sign releases that said they were not high/drunk. They also specifically targeted 18-20yr olds to make sure the women were as naive as possbile.

The founder also had a separate website that published some of the victims real names publically.

Coercing/lying/tricking/forcing someone into a type of sex that they otherwise would not have had willingly is cut and dry rape. These women were sex trafficed, which the DOJ confirmed.

But there is something circular and self-serving about saying “it’s not me, it’s the system, and I can do nothing about that system.”

Notice how this offloads all the responsibility and blame elsewhere, forever, while requiring no change whatsoever of us?

That doesn’t sit well with me. There’s some truth in it but there’s also a lot of convenience in it.

We’re arguably all evil, yeah. If you let a kid drown, you’re evil. If you let a kid drown 5000 miles away, because you’d rather buy a pc game or something you don’t really need, than donate to charity, that’s also evil. If you donate 50 bucks at christmas, to prevent one kid from drowning, that doesn’t mean you’re not evil if you let another 100 drown during the rest of the year.

People have a really hard time accepting that they’re not good. Vanity is the Devil’s favourite sin.

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t at least try to be better. It’s not because you and I eat meat, that we should also go kick a puppy to death. That puppy does matter. Stop kicking puppies to death!

The first honest comment I’ve seen here.

Eh, I think that’s just hivemind talking. Every discussion I’ve ever had about the ethics of capitalism has some talk of how you, as an individual, can be better. Buy less, live humbly, vet sources, and if you’re in the position to make an actual IMPACT, do what you can.

For the individual, pretty much the only real effect we can have is doing what I just said, and spreading the idea to anyone who will listen.

I have seen this argument a few times lately but I’m not sure i understand it completely.

Is the argument that person 1 trades with company 1 which is seemingly run ethically. Company 1 trades with company 2, 2 with 3 etc.

And then eventually company x trades with x+1 which is some human rights breaking company. And then all seemingly ethical companies have this link or trail of trade partners which eventually end up at some unethical company?

And you’re a raging social deviant in my eyes, willing to attack someone trying to do better around something society deems acceptable. We can do this all day, sling mud, and shout into the void, or we can have an actual dialog.

Also that’s ridiculous. Anyone manufacturing anything is the responsible party for ensuring their stuff is safe. Or have you never heard of a manufacturer recall? It’s the same principle. They made bad porn, they get the trouble.

And you are absolutely responsible for ensuring that the porn you watch is adult and consensual.

Well… no. But even if viewers were, how do you go about ensuring that it’s abuse free? It’s not like you can just google the production company. There are plenty of times where there aren’t any publicly available allegations so you can never be sure. When it comes to amateur porn, how do you know if their partner is forcing them into it or not? There’s no way to prove anything for sure unless there is a public record of allegations.

For the record my guy, eatthecake is a raging lunatic. Keep doing better. No one’s perfect and realizing that some of the things you may have thought were ethical, aren’t is a good first step.

Don’t beat yourself up over it. Everyone makes mistakes, and the true harm was already done when the film was shot. Your contribution to the harm is minimal.

Maybe you should think about your actions more in future. Look into the consequences. Donate some money to a shelter. If you’re actually sorry then you can try and contribute to helping the people you hurt. Kudos for recocgnising that you hsve caused hurt and caring.

Funny hearing you of all people say anything about empathy.

You know “average porn watcher” includes a very large percentage of women too, right? Every single comment of yours is filled with hateful nonsense.

Again, the porn is not the problem. There is nothing inherently wrong with making or watching porn. The predators are the problem.

Two things to consider:

One, I guarantee you have watched and will watch again, a major Hollywood movie featuring victims of abuse by directors, producers, other actors. Even child victims. Hollywood is widely recognized for being a dark and evil place with imbalances of power and open secrets about exploitation. But watching movies is not inherently evil. The best you can do is be deliberate in your choices and try your best to not support the bad guys.

Two, where does the moral imperative end? Ok, so you’ve decided that entertainment in the form a sexual performance is fundamentally different than movies/tv/theater/music. You abstain from participating because you believe it is unethical. Do you then believe in censorship? Surely if it is categorically wrong it should be made illegal? Better safe than sorry. But who gets to control the terms of censorship? What about the woman of color who is making enough doing porn to empower themselves in a society that is essentially constructed to deprive them of power? Is it right to take away that power due, ironically, to the actions of the same type of bad guy that limits their power in the first place?

Prohibition does not work. Not for drugs, not for alcohol, not for porn, and of the three I listed it is arguably the healthiest pastime. The solution is openness and oversight. Stop forcing porn talent to exist in some walled off dim corner of the internet. Eliminate the stigma. Give me that new Netflix Original porn with credits and funding. But it still wont be perfect. But that still doesn’t make it fundamentally wrong.

And your cell phone was, at least assuming you live in a developed country, most likely replaced before it was necessary. You, and I, and every other consumer, caused that cobalt mine to have to produce a little more, which caused another chain of human suffering. Now do something about it. Oh, you can’t because you’re one powerless voice going against some of the wealthiest corporations in the world. Make friends, fight together, and collectively something may change.

Its not impossible to research the porn you consume to ensure that you’re not getting off to someone being sexually abused or raped.

You do understand that abusers can lie about what they’re doing, right? And that victims of abuse will often not come out in fear of retaliation from the abuser. You’re saying that the viewer should be required to prove that something doesn’t exist. It’s an impossible task.

Research on stuff you consume is a good habit, but most people don’t make time to check every source, even on things they use daily like a phone (or people would all buy Fairphones).

I think most sane people do not like to masturbate to something when they believe it actually causes harm. That’s why this is a news item, porn for most people is not about abuse and they are not fine with it (although I agree much content is often extremely aggressive). As for many it’s supposed to be a window of letting sexual frustration out; porn is about sex, which is one of the core drive factors of most existing species and one of the main reasons we exist today. Not everyone feels as strongly about it, but one cannot deny the human urges surrounding it.

For many people porn in general can fulfill a need, and therefore it’s quite easy for them to overlook the dark side of porn out of habit, just like eating animals is culturally acceptable to most, as well as buying the latest phone every two years while child labour is likely involved. People get their dopamine hit by different things and may look away from questionable parts. I’d figure that includes us, perhaps on different subjects.

I think we should all critically look at our own behaviour. We’re all bad and hypocrites in my perspective, but not on purpose per se. Most discussion in this topic I see is about some people trying to admit they’re confused and defending their past behaviour without wanting to give it all up and others that claim to have the moral highground while ignoring any nuance.

I think it’s good to look at ourselves and our own shortcomings. Everyone has different flaws, some might be equally morally questionable. Let’s acknowledge that and share our views. And together make sure that we strongly form a bond on that practices like in this news post will not happen again. This is a lot easier if we can understand the consumers of porn related services and work together to weed out the dark while acknowledging existing needs.

Ok and I’ll bash you for using an electronic device and wearing clothes. Both of them are as coercive and damaging to people as consuming unethical pornography.

Or we can get to an actual middle ground of understanding, realize that the world we live in is the way that it is, and do some actual work changing it, from both sides. I dunno, one of those seems way more productive.