You are losing the point here, all that history is great for you and me, now, go back and ask any Ukranian from 1935/1945 who was at fault, and let’s see the responses. That is the information those young Ukranians had when they enrolled.
Of course there would be many of them that were actual Nazis and supported the Holocaust and all that shit, and those need to be treated like any other Nazi, I am not saying not to that, I am only saying that, maybe, we could give this guys the benefit of the doubt considering the two options they had.
At the end of the day, the vast majority of Ukrainians fought for the Red Army against a nation who’s policy literally involved the eradication of the Slavic races because they were seen as subhuman. Have you read Mein Kampf? Do you know how many Soviets died in the concentration camps? Do you know how many civilians Nazi Germany starved by doing exactly what you claim Stalin did to the occupied Soviet territories?
Hell, half of the point of invading Ukraine was to capture the agricultural production, starve the Ukrainians, and use that to feed the German war machine.
You ask me if I have read “Mein Kampf” and I ask you: “would a 17 year old Ukranian in 1943 have read ‘Mein Kampf’?”
I repeat, how much of what you said would a 17 year old Ukranian know in 1943?
You are using 2023 information to criticize a decision made by a 1943 teenage farmer.
Would I ever join the Nazis not matter who they were fighting against?
No way! I agree with you, but we are not talking about me.
That’s my only point, to look at them on a per-case-basis and judge their actions, because they truly were between a rock and a hard place (I am not talking about Spanish, French, Italian, German and any other that joined the Nazis, this is very specific to Ukranians and maybe some neighbouring countries).
At the end of the day, the vast majority of Ukrainians fought for the Red Army because it was known policy at the time that the Nazis sought to eradicate the Slavic Untermensch and that they wanted to seize Ukrainian farmland to starve the Ukrainians and feed the Germans. This only became more evident as the war went on. Ukrainians who joined the Nazis are complicit in the deaths of their countrymen.
You are losing the point here, all that history is great for you and me, now, go back and ask any Ukranian from 1935/1945 who was at fault, and let’s see the responses. That is the information those young Ukranians had when they enrolled. Of course there would be many of them that were actual Nazis and supported the Holocaust and all that shit, and those need to be treated like any other Nazi, I am not saying not to that, I am only saying that, maybe, we could give this guys the benefit of the doubt considering the two options they had.
To join the Nazis? Fuck off.
At the end of the day, the vast majority of Ukrainians fought for the Red Army against a nation who’s policy literally involved the eradication of the Slavic races because they were seen as subhuman. Have you read Mein Kampf? Do you know how many Soviets died in the concentration camps? Do you know how many civilians Nazi Germany starved by doing exactly what you claim Stalin did to the occupied Soviet territories?
Hell, half of the point of invading Ukraine was to capture the agricultural production, starve the Ukrainians, and use that to feed the German war machine.
You ask me if I have read “Mein Kampf” and I ask you: “would a 17 year old Ukranian in 1943 have read ‘Mein Kampf’?”
I repeat, how much of what you said would a 17 year old Ukranian know in 1943?
You are using 2023 information to criticize a decision made by a 1943 teenage farmer. Would I ever join the Nazis not matter who they were fighting against? No way! I agree with you, but we are not talking about me.
That’s my only point, to look at them on a per-case-basis and judge their actions, because they truly were between a rock and a hard place (I am not talking about Spanish, French, Italian, German and any other that joined the Nazis, this is very specific to Ukranians and maybe some neighbouring countries).
At the end of the day, the vast majority of Ukrainians fought for the Red Army because it was known policy at the time that the Nazis sought to eradicate the Slavic Untermensch and that they wanted to seize Ukrainian farmland to starve the Ukrainians and feed the Germans. This only became more evident as the war went on. Ukrainians who joined the Nazis are complicit in the deaths of their countrymen.