Alright people, that’s a wrap. I’m going to be handing out a few bans, if you think I’ve banned you wrongly (or missed someone) feel free to message as I’m only human and may make some mistakes trying to navigate this dumpster fire of a comments section.
Edit: Done, I think? Some comment removal is not working, or maybe taking a bit of time in the background. Please report anything you see if you’ve come across it.
My old boss says she rather risk her life riding a weemo taxi than take a Uber.
When asked why, she said that an Uber driver dropped her off at home, after about 15 minutes, then Uber driver was still messaging her. She ignored it. After 15 minutes later, the APP asked her if anything is wrong because the driver was still parked at her front door.
She called the police and they showed up 30 minutes later and made him leave. Dude was at her house messaging her for 45 minutes.
Ya, I’m a dude and I would also choose bear.
Oh god mgtow. That whole thing is a walking red flag
I generally dislike writing off people (or groups or things) based on a soundbite or a hashtag - I’d much rather evaluate for myself whether there’s any decent and informative point to the content.
#mgtow though… The very presence of it makes one cringe, and I can’t think of an occasion when it hasn’t descended into a dumpster fire from there.
I suppose it’s nice of them to flag their own content so well really.
The concept of it isn’t intrinsically bad. There’s nothing wrong with men who just want to be single and focus on things other than relationships. The problem arose when it was co-opted by hateful incels and misogynists.
Co-opted my ass. It was started by incels pretending to be stoics.
Yeah, I miss when I didn’t know what it really meant. My imagined world was so wholesome
Genuinely curious, your world was wholesome before that single fact?
no no the world i imagined all those mgtow people making their threads about, with guys throwing their own tea parties for themselves and going on little hikes by themselves and having little log cabins for their pet screaming possums. i don’t live in the real world it’s scary out there
I understand now, I genuinely didn’t get what you said before. I learned about incels and mgtow at the same time, so I knew that they are literally the same thing under a different name (misogynist, violent, hateful and very partial to the fat right). The abbreviation sounds very harmless.
It overall reminded me why I fucking hate social media in general.
Huh, must have changed a bit. When I came across it years ago it seemed like a reasonably healthy response for an incel - stop worrying about women and work on yourself.
For anybody else who hadn’t heard about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Going_Their_Own_Way
Back when I first heard about it I thought it was really nice that there was a group of men supporting each other in rejecting the idea that heterosexual monogamy was the only path to a fulfilled life. Life is full of disappointment.
I’ve seen this one before! In The Little Rascals!
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What the actual fuck.
You took their reply and twisted its meaning completely then you put it in quotes as if somebody had actually said that.
And then you complain about fallacies and brain-dead discourse? Oh the sweet, sweet irony…
I laughed aloud at this one - you’re very correct. My grammar isn’t perfect, but I try… I’ve had people point out that I use commas in chats, as if that’s a crazy thing to do.
Twitter was invented years ago, and I saw stupidity manifest. The concept was to force people into dumbing down their statements, and it was character limited to make things as worse as they could get.
Twitter won, though. And then, years later, Musk took it over. So now we have this… Even the people we agree with seem to have been impacted. And oh man, AI is going to strip anything left fully away for those that use it for their writing.
Like how the reply twisted the original meaning of ‘this is what’s wrong with choosing the bear’ into ‘you deserve to be mauled’
You’re reinterpreting the comment and doing so in a way that misses the crux of their argument.
They are commenting on the cartoon being a vengeance fantasy against women. Which it is.
So women’s choices are now men having revenge fantasy ?? So you’re a misandrist.
No, the women’s choice didn’t include men making revenge fantasy posts. Don’t move the goal posts.
This is the perfect case for a “No you”. As in YOU are the one moving goalposts by saying “How dare men talk back”.
The question was “would you rather be alone in the woods with a man or a bear”, right? Is this not the logical conclusion of the bear option? Like, I very much agree this is bad hearted revenge fantasy but this is the logical conclusion of choosing the bear. They’re not cuddly.
The question was “would you rather be alone in the woods with a man or a bear”, right? Is this not the logical conclusion of the bear option?
No, it is absolutely not.
Explain. If you were teleported directly in front of a bear and directly in front of a stranger, how you would fare better with the bear. In detail, please.
No, that wasn’t the question. Are you moving the goal post to be offended?
If there’s a bear 800m away from me, he’s not likely to move in my direction. If he moves in my direction, then of course I’ll turn around and run and that’ll be it.
If there’s a man 800m away from a woman in the woods, she doesn’t know what he’s going to do. If he starts going in her direction, she still doesn’t know what he’s going to do, so maybe she waits until he’s much closer. And when he’s much closer, she still doesn’t know what he’ll do, right until it’s too late. Maybe he’ll just say hi your shoelace is undone, or maybe he’ll stab you.
That’s the point. You don’t know how dangerous the man might be and you don’t know how worse your odds get the longer you fail to react. You know what to do with a bear and you can react immediately to be safe sooner.
No, the question was: would you rather be alone in the woods next to a random man or a random bear.
This implies anonymity and no consequences of actions. So the way people act online.
A consequence free man is capable of anything. A bear would only maul you.
Jesus Christ have you people ever been outside? You act like all men are just raping beasts being kept back by a thin thread. Have you ever considered that one of those things a man could do would BE NICE? Like a HUMAN? Probably not since you clearly don’t even consider them human. Good God I am so disappointed in humanity. Maybe if you didn’t exist entirely in your own bubble of hatred like some reverse 4chan incel you would have less shitty views on the world.
Jesus Christ have you people ever been outside?
Here’s a short video of women being outside in public spaces: https://www.tiktok.com/@specere/video/7472932570162924831
Imagine encountering that on a daily basis and then someone asks you how you’d feel encountering a random man in the woods?
No, I do not act like like all men are raping beasts. Stop putting words in my mouth.
Especially since I am myself a man. So I know for certain we aren’t all raping beasts.
But please, show me one bear that has raped a human woman. We get stories like that all the time from men. And we should be angry towards them for making men look bad, rather than towards the women who fear us.
Why you would put in quotes your own interpretation of what they said?
I think you are guiltier of this internet braindead than Carter, you are simplifying and twisting their message, when the concept is quite clear.
You are talking about fallacies while committing fallacies, just to obscure the real situation here.
The original cartoon is misogynistic and the reply is pointing that out. It is as simple as that.
You’re telling that he don’t have a grin on his face? You go to so much effort to faint the ignorance about the obvious “you get what youn deserved” tone of the work.
You’re better than this. Or at the very least you should strive to be.
A bear wouldn’t have made such a post in the first place. So already men is worse.
Bear - kills someone. Man - posts something. Man is worse. Is that what you’re saying?
I never saw a bear do a mass shooting, or sentence someone to life in prison, or waterboard someone, or build an oil pipeline, or pass a tax cut for the rich. Men are way more powerful than bears, so they have to be better. Strength is for protecting the weak.
The vast majority of bears have never hurt anyone.
So… Have the vast majority of men.
Men kill thousands of people every day. Bears don’t.
I’d be concerned if they did, considering there’s about a billion times less interaction between people and bears.
Edit: A billion times less is literally still understating the difference…
Lemmy really is just like reddit huh
no. clearly no. bears are opportunist cowards. you can deal with them quite easily. yes, they’re dangerous, but they’re not ever actively problems.
i’m curious why you’re judging the bear by the worst possible outcome rather than the most likely outcome and the man by this specific outcome.
Which bear has killed someone? Nowhere in the debate is an actual bear present.
And even if there was a bear, are you going to ignore all the killing men has done in the same time frame?
There is no logical fallacy. They are responding to a self-identified incel (the mgtow hashtag in the picture). They know what they are about, and it is a waste of time pretending they are not.
Also, it ignores the clear intended meaning of the work to attack the artist for a completely different interpretation.
To be clear, I am fully in camp Death of the Author, but if that is how you analyze art, you do not also get to attribute your interpretation back to the original artist.
This is particularly annoying in this instance, because “your argument just proves my point” is a thought terminating cliche that is highly utilized in this particular discourse, from the side that the commentator appears to be from.
What’s the clear intended meaning of the work?
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Jeez. These comments.
Yeah, I’m shocked at the level of misogyny on Lemmy. I swear shit was never this bad even a few months ago? Maybe I was being ignorant.
Na, never has been different. Look up any thread that even mildly implies men could do something wrong and it’s only hate from there on.
I wonder why tough. Lemmy is fairly left, pro LGBTQI+, etc. but in regards to anything mildly feminist you get… well, this kind of lovely thread.
I feel bad for note paying attention to it sooner. I think I’m going to have to post more of this sort of content all over the place to piss of the sexists.
Sadly brocialism is a thing amongst some leftists.
lemmy is a network mostly populated by cis white men. like a lot of liberal/leftist spaces populated by cis white men, it’s going to be progressive on the surface; i.e., they oppose right wing shit. say here that you support the right to abortion, immigration or gay marriage, and you’re not going to meet much pushback.
but, as soon as you start criticizing dominant groups (or just, say that they have power over oppressed people), now people yell at you. you can see that here, but also, say that anti-white racism is not a thing, or even just that it’s not comparable to actual racism, and you’ll wonder if you actually logged into reddit by accident.
heck, just criticize people’s behavior as bigoted here and they’ll rip you apart…
Yeah, that tracks. I wonder if the average age being around 40 adds to that equation. I am 40ish myself, but encounter a lot of cis white men in their tweens in left spaces, that seem to be quite reflected im regards to feminist topics.
Because it’s unnecessarily inflammatory. The “bear or men” thing is apparently interpreted completely differently by at least some men and women and instead of listening to each other it just ends up as hate for each other. Why would you want to piss of the men that are on your side?
Why would you want to piss of the men that are on your side?
… If this question pisses you off, maybe you’re not as on the side of women as you think you are.
They’re not asking if people would feel more safe with a bear or you, they’re asking about a completely random, unknown man.
I’m sure you are one of the good ones, I’m sure the majority of people on this thread are, but it’s not about that, it’s about the unknown.
You shouldn’t be pissed off at women for being afraid of men, you should be pissed off at men that make women afraid.
Nobody wants to be lumped in with a bunch of people they find disgusting, which is what the question is about. I can fully understand women replying the way they do, but I can also fully understand men getting upset over the implication. It’s bullshit ragebait and dividing us unnecessarily.
If you’re upset over the implication then I have bad news for you: every time you’re walking down the street and about to pass a woman, the exact same thought is likely going through her head. There’s a very high chance that said thought is from prior experiences, too.
The key thing is that it’s not about you, it’s not an attack on your or your character, it’s about how women feel. I can appreciate why the question feels like rage bait, but you have to also consider that the only reason it feels like rage bait is because so many women feel the way they do and you have to ask why that is. You then have to consider your position, if you would rather that women didn’t feel that way, what are you going to do about it? If anything.
I can also fully understand men getting upset over the implication.
The implication that their unknown behavior makes them potentially dangerous gets them upset to the point that they lash out and show exactly that their unknown behavior is, in fact, dangerous? No, I don’t understand it, and I understand it proves that the question is right. If this makes someone upset, that person is the danger. It is not divisive because it has always been true for everyone who is subject to it, what makes you upset is that it is being pointed out and explained to you why it has always been bad and why this divide has always been there while you pretended that it didn’t exist. I don’t get upset when someone points out the existence of a problem that I already knew was there. Hell, even if I didn’t know it was there, my reaction is oh shit is that an issue what can we do about this, not how dare you show this to me.
Well, reddit migration I guess.
Well, it’s egalitarian, so there’s your answer. Equal
Fuck equality!
I do love that picture. I wish it’d be more reflected in real life. That said, none of those people are being brought DOWN - the people in need are being brought UP. Big difference
Fuck misogynists.
If you’re not a misogynist you shouldn’t feel hurt when I say that.
Agreed. But it’s not “would you rather be stuck in the woods alone with a bear or a misogynist”, it’s with a man, isn’t it? People can’t help what they’re born as. You’re judging them for something completely out of their control. Their gender no less, which a lot of men aren’t happy they were assigned. And on the other hand you’re actively shitting on trans masc choices to be men. I just don’t think this sweeping sexism is the answer.
A potential solution to a lot of gender-related issues is to make agender the default. Gender should be opt-in not opt-out. This way more people will not have a gender to be treated as, and people will get more used to treating people in the same way with little regard for gender.
However, this would be difficult.
the root of most hate, and i mean like… DEEP hate isn’t any active emotion towards another person but instead an unwillingness to audit our blindspots. what i see a lot on lemmy is people who are steeped in Internet Culture who assume that they are progressive, forward thinking, and have it all figured out. i try to come into discussions with the mindset that i’m guilty of this, too, and that i’m a work in progress.
there’s also a deep seated fundamental misunderstanding of what feminism is here that matches very directly to what you would get used to seeing on reddit. it’s kind of funny, because it demonstrates that the Read Theory bros theories don’t consider critical marxist analysis of gender to be part of the theory that needs to be read, which is frustrating, bordering on upsetting. anytime i recommend someone read bell hooks’ Feminism is For Everyone i get antsy about how long in will take for someone who’s let conservatives tell them what feminism is to tell me that’s a propaganda rag and that bell hooks doesn’t know what feminism is
it’s like solidarity amongst the lower classes only matters up until the point when you have to start working against the oldest arbitrary division that’s been used to keep us from organizing
it’s like solidarity amongst the lower classes only matters up until the point when you have to start working against the oldest arbitrary division that’s been used to keep us from organizing
Unfortunately, I think a lot of the read theory bros on lemmy are people who are less concerned about solidarity with the lower class, and really just involved in Marxism because they want to abolish class because they’ve incidentally fallen into the lower class.
There seems to be a lot more anger about their own displacement within their own society than the plights of more disenfranchised minorities classes. I think that’s why a lot of the Marxist/communist instances are so obsessed with the particulars instead of being a more big tent community.
the Read Theory bros theories don’t consider critical marxist analysis of gender to be part of the theory that needs to be read, which is frustrating, bordering on upsetting
As a big Read Theory Bro, turned Read Theory Girl, holy fucking shit, this is so true.
Marx, Lenin, and friends are great, but there’s so much Feminist and Queer Marxism out there worth reading
Engles’ Origin of The Family, Private Property and The State
Alexandra Kollontai’s Communism and The Woman Question
Anuradha Ghandy’s Philosophical Trends in the Feminist Movement
Transgender Warriors by Leslie Feinberg
Unfortunately no, it’s been like this since I made my first account over 2 yrs ago. It hasn’t really gotten worse but it’s also not getting better. It’s basically why the AFAB cis population of the platform is tiny. Why would women stick around when this stuff is what every post about women turns into…
Yeah… The vast majority of the comments I’ve had rack up a bunch of down votes on this platform have been arguing with misogynists. I think it’s mainly a byproduct of the demographics of lemmy mostly being made up of young dudes working in tech.
I hope it may be a bit of confirmation bias. Most of the people who are not misogynists just move on after reading the meme and don’t comment. I was about to do the same until I saw this comment thread, and now I’m in the gutter of other comment threads here trying to fight the good fight 🤣.
Maybe it just wasn’t apparent? But flares up in posts like this.
Still. It’s literally mgtow ChatGPT slop, with the caption “hey, you said you chose the bear!” I’m floored/ashamed the response is anything but “wow, Rafael is a jerk.”
It comes and goes depending on if women are speaking up about stuff or if the misogynistic men can forget we’re here
My first real experience on Lemmy, was a thread about men overrunning a women’s tech job fair. And Lemmites seeing nothing wrong with it.
It kinda set the tone.
The picking the bear nonsense was sexist ragebait to start with, if you don’t want people pointing that out then don"t post said ragebait.
Boo hoo that men are offended.
Women: I want men to talk to me instead of leaving me out all the time
Also women: lol stop being offended
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“sexism both ways”
Lmfao
That’s always the response… You wanting me to acknowledge the systemic disenfranchisement of women/minorities is sexist/racist.
That or it’s … It’s sexist to not let me have a tantrum about the “male loneliness epidemic”, and somehow the epidemic is because of women.
It is all the LLM bots that are configured to work on Reddit.
Men in general have no idea what women have to deal with [from men]. And so many men are fragile and want to turn it around and make themselves the victims. If you are having a hard time befriending women, then you need to look deeper into your actions and how they might be perceived by someone who has to deal with unprovoked messaging, calling, touching, staring, following, etc. Men are the reason women travel in groups to the restroom, or that there is such a thing as a drink cover in a bar, or that there are women only driver options for ride services, etc. etc. You just need to realize that even if the actual percentage of men who are creepers is low, it doesn’t mean that the number of interactions women have with them is not. All it takes is one scary moment for a woman to be put on the defensive for good.
Still though. Even assuming total ignorance, where’s the respect?
Rafael is an abusive ass. It’s clear cut.
Hence I don’t get the responses below… Are others guys really so afraid of the bear meme “perpetuating a toxic message to other women” or whatever that their respect for other human beings goes out the window? Like it’s too dangerous an idea? I’m pretty socially isolated, yet that sounds like fascism to me.
I don’t understand why this triggers so many men. I think a lot of them just have absolutely no experience talking with women or reading about their interactions with men. Just a total lack of curiosity or interest in what life is like for women.
absolutely no experience talking with women
Also, most people have no experience with wildlife and think all bears are murder machines.
The vast majority of bear encounters outside of very specific locations are with black bears. In which case you just end up momentarily scaring each other and then they run away.
Genuinely men don’t see some of the issues women deal with. Like, all of my female friends have stories about dudes being creeps, but my male friends mostly don’t have stories like that. It’s extremely easy to be out of touch with even your close friends on this matter.
I personally don’t like it because the analogy makes the generalization that ALL men are evil and planning to cause harm. That’s incorrect, and vilifies me. I didn’t do anything to be vilified. I didn’t throw any stones, so wtf…
Generally speaking, I abhor these types of fictitious analogies. I understand that women have apprehension of men in general. I know why that is. This whole bear thing is just mean to every man though. I don’t appreciate it.
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Most of the user base is from Reddit, so no surprise. Ostensibly progressive guys who take criticism of things other men do personally. I’m particularly familiar given I used to be one of them, though I wasn’t on Reddit then.
IDK, I’m not sold.
Neither Man nor Bear isn’t presented as an option, the choices were Man or Bear so anybody who chooses Bear is CHOOSING THE BEAR. Bears are not kind to humans in their territory, if you run into a mother then you’re going to be torn apart.
anybody who chooses Bear is CHOOSING THE BEAR
But she’s getting both. Big brown bear and insufferably smug, demonstrably useless, petty and vindictive man.
Bears are not kind to humans in their territory
Bears generally leave you alone unless you’ve got food and they’re hungry… at which point, just give them your food and you’ll be fine. Despite millions of humans living in historical bear territory, you get only 2-5 actual attacks reported per year.
Men can’t make this claim.
There have been 3 black bear attacks in the USA this year, all three fatal, and one brown bear attack, also fatal. I might also be missing some nonfatal attacks since theres not a well maintained list for those. Humans also generally leave you alone if you’re not in their immediate vicinity, I think it warrants assuming you’re not just on the same mountain as the bear.
There have been 3 bear attacks in the USA this year, all three fatal.
Now do men.
There were 3,849 women murdered in the US in 2023. But it does not list who killed them.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1388777/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-gender/
in 2021, 147 women were killed by 144 men.
https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2024/07/04/census-details-how-often-men-kill-women
using the lower number from 2021, and the bear fatalities from the same year (6 total, only 4 were women), women are 36.5 times more likely to be killed by a man than a bear… and this is not counting rape.
Bear attacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
You didn’t figure in factors like number of men total or number of bears total, and the amount of exposure to either.
You are such an asshole.
I’m not the first to say that, not the last, but you need to be reminded of that constantly.
Fuck you, fuck your bad faith arguments, and go away.
You are also the reason why people choose bears.
You are also the reason why people choose bears.
That was my thought reading every single one of their replies.
I don’t know who this guy is, nor do I want to read their history… But I agree, they do seem like an asshole.
I’ve never met this person before in my life.
You didn’t factor in the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.
How many men existed in 2021 and how many bears existed in 2021?almost got the per capita rates
Also if you’re going to include the rape statistics you gotta include them for bears too.
100% of bear sexual encounters are rape.
I’m sure your keen criticism of statistical assessments of the situation will change the minds of woman everywhere.
Is that scaling for interactions? Total amount of women who’ve interacted with a bear VS a man.
There were 3,849 women murdered in the US in 2023
Murder isn’t the only way to be killed. Case in point, 2,958 women’s deaths are classified as “passenger vehicle accidents”, plus another 2,126 pedestrian deaths.
By gender, the overwhelming majority of accident drivers are men (13,085 : 5,212). So if you’re worried specifically about dying and you exclude all murderers, just getting in a car makes other male drivers vastly more dangerous than bears.
Holy shit, that’s nuts! This should be in the top comments for this silly hypothetical lol. I think you just checkmated nearly everyone trying to argue against the bear.
You can’t control other peoples sexuality, dork.
Now do cars
2,958 women’s deaths are classified as “passenger vehicle accidents”, plus another 2,126 pedestrian deaths.
By gender, the overwhelming majority of accident drivers are men (13,085 : 5,212). So if you’re worried specifically about dying and you exclude all murderers, just getting in a car makes other male drivers vastly more dangerous than bears.
Your mind is going to be blown when you find out about the number of man attacks this year.
Better yet, what about Mosquitos?
Probably a bad example for your case of being an obtuse asshole almost every time any subject comes up (we recognize our own.)
Mosquitos are incredibly deadly to humans but they’re also like hundreds of trillions of them at any given time, so an average mosquito is still significantly less dangerous to a woman than an average man.
so… yeah just a smidge unbalanced.
smidge
The irony of saying it’s bad to compare mosquitos to men based on number of each and interactions, while comparing men to bears.
I bet even male toddlers killed more people in the us
There are also a lot more of them, and surprisingly they have more access to firearms and vehicles.
Probably. It’s hard to research, though, since there’s so much material about how more and more kids are dying these days
“Humans also generally leave you alone if you’re not in their immediate vicinity”
You should talk to a women one day.
“Humans also generally leave you alone if you’re not in their immediate vicinity”
You should talk to a women one day.
I bet you haven’t even touched grass in 5 months.
you get only 2-5 *actual attacks* reported per year.
There have been 3 black bear attacks in the USA this year, all three fatal, and one brown bear attack, also fatal.
And is 3 + 1 within the range [2, 5]? I know it’s a tough question, but I have faith you can manage to figure it out!
I never said it was anything but.
Four is between two and five, though? Which is exactly what they said?
Are you telling me that’s not enough death to warrant caution? Imagine if there were 170 Million Bears, maybe thats a better visual for you to compare.
Are you really trying to present this argument as people saying you shouldn’t be cautious around bears? Have you lived around bears? Yeah, be cautious around bears - but that caution takes the form of “make sure you don’t surprise the bear”. Bears don’t want to be involved with you any more than you want to be involved with them. They will avoid you.
Bears don’t want to be involved with you any more than you want to be involved with them. They will avoid you.
A perfect juxtaposition for incels!
I can’t tell if you’re thoroughly disingenuous or you actually can’t tell what this discussion is about. Involvement with the bear or avoidance of the bear were explicitly declared non-optional.
Honestly confused, do you mean in your initial comment you were asserting that the choices were either “interact with man” or “interact with bear”? Because if so that was never the premise of the initial question, and nobody else here appears to be discussing it like it was.
You are missing the point of the original experiment, and continue to misdirect the discussion into your predeterminted views.
So again, fuck you for that.
The only thing that matters is that “some MEN ARE A DANGER TO WOMEN”.
Disregarding that you only support the attackers. Simple as.
Yet men killing a shit ton more women than that per year isn’t a good enough reason to warrant caution? Statistically the bear is still safer.
Edit: You also don’t have to falsely inflate the population of men to create a hyperbolic fantasy situation to justify choosing the bear.
Explain how the bear is statistically safer; you would need to factor in not just total incidences, but total interactions, otherwise it’s a sharpshooter fallacy.
The average woman likely has tens of thousands of hours with strange men and no incident, and it would be extremely surprising that the bear stats would be better than that.
I wouldn’t be surprised that even if you only selected men convicted of violence on women, the bears would still be statistically more dangerous (or it would at least be a somewhat close comparison).
This is getting into the weeds a bit though and not really in the spirit of the original question.
Women existing in public: https://www.tiktok.com/@specere/video/7472932570162924831
It doesn’t matter if there is a bus full of men and only one is a creep. The woman isn’t going to remember the 99 men who left her alone, she’s going to remember the 1 that stared at her the whole time.
If this was your experience every day it would not be surprising at all to not want to be around a random man.
Not all men are creeps, but all women have been creeped on.
I’ve already committed enough of my time to this stupid as fuck conversation, it’s not worth my time.
Instead, a fun animal fact, sharks are older than both trees and Polaris, the north star.
45% to 55% of women have experienced sexual harassment since the age of 15 in the European Union.
https://interactive.unwomen.org/multimedia/infographic/violenceagainstwomen/en/index.html
the average woman has had ‘no incident’ with men?
you need to listen to some women
or alternatively, you can make your statistical point without hyperbole
no i can’t. i can only imagine two million bears in a large space, like say the washington dc mall. that’s the most i can realistically comprehend. two million shirtless bears. would someone get me a mai tai?
I can’t tell if this a serious comment. There were only three in the entire United States? God damn dude, maybe I’ll take the bear as well… And I’m a guy.
I guess you’ve sold us all on how much better the bear is. For the record, I encountered a bear earlier this year and yelled at it. It walked away.
How many thousands of men have you interacted with and yet are still alive? Are you seriously suggesting you could interact with thousands of bears and have the same success rate? You’re manipulating the numbers in a very dishonest way.
Nobody is scared of vending machines even though they kill more people than sharks, not because sharks are safer, but because almost nobody interacts with a shark but almost everyone has many safe interactions with a vending machine.
Have you never seen any report of how many women experience some form of sexual assault from men in their life? Because that’s higher than you think.
The question is satire. It’s a bit stupid to make agruments against it based on statistics.
It started as satire, perhaps, but I know woman who would literally rather go take their chances with a bear than a skeezy dude outside a bar following them to their car.
How many thousands of men have you interacted with and yet are still alive?
“I’ve never been in a conversation with someone who wasn’t alive, therefore death isn’t real.”
Fucking baby-brain shit. Have you even developed object permanence yet?
Lol, are you literally thinking the hypothetical includes all men? They aren’t going to run away from their father, brother, cousin, or the nice old man who runs the laundremat.
It’s about predatory men. Men that want something from them - sex, a relationship, companionship. The way mamy men pursue this is often very sketchy and/or dangerous. Domestic violence against woman is extremely common.
Here’s women encountering men in public spaces: https://www.tiktok.com/@specere/video/7472932570162924831
No wonder they don’t want to encounter them alone in the woods.
It’s important that people understand this. I literally just earlier this year yelled at a 500 pound bear eating trash out of a garbage can. It walked away when I did this.
Too lazy to look through my post history but iirc men are MUCH more likely to kill someone than a bear, adjusted for population. You can search through it if you’d like. Men are much more violent than bears.
See that’s actually not true, because there are more men total than bears total and people are generally much more exposed to men than bears. Let’s say you go to a city and walk past a hundred people. Bears are safer, so you’d be perfectly justified to walk past a hundred bears?
I don’t think you understand what adjusted for population means. Bears kill like 2.6 people a year.
Humans kill ~11,000 times as many, and have 100 times the population. So humans are 110x more likely to kill you than a bear. (Note this is humans, not men. Men are responsible for 87.5% of known murders, but 50% of the population.) Adjusting for this, men are ~145 to 200x more likely to kill a human than a bear (like a quarter of murders are unknown so I gave it a wide range) You also have to take into account humans are generally bound by society and thus most human interaction won’t be as dangerous where as it’s not like a bears gonna be like “uh oh there are cameras here or other people might see me kill this person” so like… yeah you can’t perfectly account for everything but uh, point being bears really aren’t that dangerous if you see one alone in the woods.
Also sorry if I didn’t provide links and math might be slightly whatever I was taking and shit and honestly don’t care that much.
Edit: and before you try and say anything else please note this is me being nice and only looking at literal murder. Ignoring assault and sexual assault and etc, which all bear attacks are about 35 a year total and… yeah human numbers are uh, MUCH higher.
This ignores exposure time though which is a huge factor, and makes the comparison disingenuous.
It absolutely doesn’t. The original question is about if you would prefer to be alone in a forest with a bear vs. with a man - it’s not would you like to interact with a bear vs. a man. People are alone in the forest with bears all the time - neither the bear nor the person knowing the other is there beyond an abstract concept. Heck, I’m alone in a forest with several bears every time I take my recycling out. I wouldn’t choose to interact with a bear, but I do know that there’s no circumstance in which the bear is going to come and seek me out (barring obnoxiously tedious rare exceptions like rabies or famine or something equally too uncommon to be relevant).
People do seek out other people, all the time. If it knows I’m there, the average bear wants nothing more than to avoid me as much as it can - the average man wants to do that significantly less, if only because they’re seeking the company of another human.
Bears kill like 2.6 people a year.
OK but what would the numbers be if humans start going to work with bears, have a party with bear guests invited, go to clubs with bears, live with bears, have a game night with bears…
What in the fuck is your point?
Who are these assholes defending this line of thinking?
Strawmaning like nutjobs trying to defend men? Fuck you.
This thread is hilarious, guys in here talking about going to work with bears
Anything to avoid the concept that men are actually dangerous to women
Me, a misoginist? No, I just hate feminism!
So an individual bear kills how many humans on average and an individual human kills how many humans on average a year. You’re almost there!
I wonder how many female bears kill people vs male bears.
Well yeah. Bears got teeth, thick fur, claws. Like my cousin Larry. People don’t. It’d be easy harder for me to kill a purple than a bear
A purple…?
i’m sorry, i have a cold
… A purple cold?
does one that makes me slur tts sometimes sound believeable because thats the one i’m going with
I’m sorry, I’m not trying to be shitty, I just have no earthly idea what that means. It sounds like LLM output?
This week on another episode of “Missing the Forest for the Trees”!
This is the first time I’ve ever seen the phrase used to justify ignorance of danger, on basis of statistical outliers ignoring all context and risk factors. It kind of works but it’s also incredibly stupid.
Since that’s not what it was being used to justify, you’ve helpfully proven my point by reenacting it, staring at the tree and insisting it’s the forest.
This happens more often than you’d think, so don’t feel too bad.
To be fair, I don’t think the meme question ever specified what kind of bear they’re going to meet in the woods. I know my answer would change drastically based on the type of bear.
Bear Black Fight Back
Bear Brown Get Down
Bear White Goodnight
I don’t know how to express to you the physical pain it causes me to see the rhyming cadence here destroyed.
Do you want me to append each one with the word “Bear”?
“Bear’s black, fight back” etc.
K, I made the edit, hows it look now?
I can sleep easy now.
Are there any bears that will be successfully thrown off by a decoy snausage or chihuahua
I’ve never seen a polar bear around when there’s a chihuahua. They know better than to come close.
Can you run faster than a Chihuahua? As the saying goes, you don’t have to be able to outrun a bear, you only have to be able to outrun whoever else is with you. But Chihuahuas are faster than you think.
I’ve seen the questions and wondered “between a man and a hairy man?”
And I will always choose the bear I will always choose the wolves No matter what they do, they wouldn’t blame my clothes I would rather choose to die Let my body decompose Cause even when you’re ash, thеy will never let you go
So, certain death is preferable to meeting the average male randomly in the woods, in other words, the average woman believes the average man will rape and kill her. That’s all we need to say about male/female relations in 2026.
I know it’s a novelty account but you’re still just being obnoxious and spreading hate under the guise of satire.
The entire argument of a woman meeting a bear or a random man in the woods is dumb from the start.
Most bears would run away from a human in the woods, a normal human is not seen as prey in most situations.
So this makes the argument more like asking:
Would you rather catch a glimpse of a bear in the woods or meet a random man in the woods?
Which makes far more sense both logically and emotionally, especially when people pick the bear over the man.
As a man, the original question about meeting a man or a bear in the woods, initially triggered a feeling of being compared to a lethal animal or certain death, and coming up short.
This obviously feels unfair to most men (and to be completely fair, it IS completely unfair to most men).
However, looking at the more realistic outcome of “meeting” a bear, i.e. catching a glimpse of it, it makes far more sense.
Sorry for the ramble, I am just annoyed at the stupid question and got caught up overanalyzing it.
Also, men who feel the need to argue about why choosing the bear is “wrong” are the reason that most women choose the bear in the first place.
When I first I saw this question, I was one of those who got triggered, but since then I found that this question was just ragebait.
As I stated above, it is perfectly resonable for a woman to prefer to catch a glimpse of a bear in the woods, than meeting a random man.
It is sad, but it is reality, and we can’t loose sight of it as that will prevent progress.
To be fair, the women who would answer that question first, are the ones who had umm…experiences with men, not good ones.
That’s some incredible sexism, holy shit.
It’s weird that we even assume people arguing the bear is wrong are men, I’ve had three people do that to me in this thread so far.
Wasn’t it ‘would you like to be alone in the woods with a bear or a man’?
Which is absolutely normal, you are alone in the woods with boars, deer and other creatures that would fuck you up if given no other choice almost every time you enter the forest. Bears are not much different here.
Men are a danger to women. And I get that most men don’t agree, and that most men feel ‘threatened’ by such statement. But by rejecting that message, they are letting the dangerous men fly under the radar. And those statistics do not lie.
I have personally never seen a man attack a woman. That does not make the statistics false. I still understand that all women are right to feel scared and I that we should as a society accept that we all need to do better to stop any chauvinistic tendencies, objectification, and any disregard to any concerns, specially from women, JUST LIKE THIS BEAR ONE.
Bears alone in the woods will go about their way, some men who see a woman alone will assault her. That’s the point, let’s all stop acting like every man is like that. But even if 1% of men are like that, it’s still safer to be with a bear.
But it’s kind of the same as cops. Few rotten ones will spoil the bunch unless every honest one will speak up and demand justice when sees ‘a buddy being silly’.
Even worse is that instead of men stepping up and admitting that ‘hey, maybe we are the problem so let us brainstorm ideas’ they go ‘no fuck you I wish you were mauled’. Cause that’s what every denial of this exercise is.
Idk what you want me to do? I see the writing on the wall, I don’t hate women, I just think it’s over. Men have a really bad reputation, and I don’t see how that can change.
Oh, I’m sorry, from your username being “WorldsDumbestMan” I just assumed you were actually larping as the world’s dumbest (bears aren’t “certain death” and I assumed you were being factious. I’ve met plenty of bears in the forest, they’re fine (if startling as hell)).
If you’re sincerely asking what to do, just… maybe try to stop thinking of women as a separate category from men, for starters. Just treat them like people. You also very much don’t have to solve this issue on your own, and the only realistic contribution you can make is to accept the current state and try to be the best person you can be while the cultural attitudes change for the better.
I have a certain diagnosis, and self-esteem issues. It’s getting more and more obvious that I’m probably just miss-diagnosed.
I will sometimes exaggerate my own stupidity and say dumb shit, but I’m mostly serious.
Regardless of how I treat women, the fact is that women don’t feel safe around men, and this creates another division amongst people. And I could not in good faith, recommend a woman NOT carry a pepper spray around her, or bring a friend or two.
I’d understand if they also had friends with them around me too, or took an U-turn. Nothing personal I guess.
Don’t forget the part where the meeting was anonymous and without consequences. The men would basically act like they would online.
I do act like I do online, I’m typically grumpy, but will help when asked.
With women, I’m a bit more awkward, but force myself to interact, so I got friends there. Not even trying to go romance or you know, fuck anyone atm.
I feel an almost smug superiority to my co-workers because I’m not afraid to hitch a ride with a woman. They don’t act weird in a woman’s presence, but talk sexualy about that same one all the time.
Their eyes and facial microexpressions give away when they’re thinking creeper thoughts. Unfortunately, must of us learn the looks early in life. Your coworkers can tell you’re safe and the other men aren’t even without overhearing their sexualized speech. Thank you for not being a creep 💜
If you have to thank me for not being a creep, then we have really fallen far, haven’t we?
If you believe people would act the same in person as they do online if there’s no one around to judge them, I have a bridge to sell you.
If it’s brown, lie down. If it’s black, fight back.
Tell me you know nothing about bears without telling me you know nothing about bears.
Tell us you haven’t lived in a place with black bears without telling us.
800 lbs of pure “i’m sorry, i didn’t mean it, please don’t hurt me, i’m someone’s little boy”
Man this comment caused quite the replies lol
A couple of them are just some tankies I regularly piss off, though.
I have run into The Bear four times in the woods (well, field I guess?) and black bears are big babies
More black bears have killed people this year than brown.
and they’re both rounding errors.
Theres gonna be another rounding error if you pick the bear, and honestly I’m not really shaming that choice but I do want it to be acknowledged because I feel like a lot of people don’t respect nature or understand animals.
you really don’t understand language. goodbye.
This comment hurt the part of my brain that has hope for humanity.
Bears live along-side people without harming them. This is a fact. You simply need to know how to interact with them if you literally cross their path.
Yes, they can murder people, but they are predictable, and by making noise or playing dead you have a chance to escape harm.
That’s the whole thing. It’s not about some sort of delusional argument of ‘choose the guy or choose to die’. Bears are not death, they are danger.
A bear’s intentions are obvious.
This argument is so dumb. Women are assuming the random man will rape them just because (what?) and men are assuming the women would rather get mauled to death by a bear (likely) then what I think they’re thinking is that they can befriend it or something? It is mildly insulting when someone says to your face “I’d rather be mauled to death than spend a second alone with you”. I’ve never come across this situation in real life however so I think this is a nonsense internet argument intended to drum up division and distract us from making guillotines.
You are misunderstanding what women are implying with this meme. It is about probability not pre-determined outcomes. Women are more fearful of the man because they believe there is more chance of being harmed by a random man than a random bear. This neither implies every man will threaten her nor every bear will maul her.
Just entertaining this is true, you DO realize how horrible it is to hear “I think you’re more dangerous than a random bear just for existing”? And this isn’t supposed to give men lasting mental health issues and extreme social anxiety?
I can’t say how it’s going to affect all men, but for me (who is a man) that is not how it affects me. The fact that there exists a lot of mysogonistic men doesn’t reflect on me. I am confident that I’d be one of the men who’d just leave a woman alone if we ever met in the woods, so knowing that there are a lot of men out their who wouldn’t doesn’t get me salty at the women who are fearful of them; but rather, it gets me salty at the shithead men out there who are ultimately the root of the women’s fear.
Right now, you are ultimately expressing your anger towards the hypothetical victim rather getting angry at the hypothetical asshole.
there’s an element too of that in a patriarchal society if you have the position of privilege of existing as a man, it’s not enough to not be dangerous towards women. you have to actively help women be safe
You’re so close, perhaps you chose your words poorly. Actively helping women be safe is, I’ll call it positive misogyny, in that you definitely understand the problem but your solution is still defined by misogyny.
Men don’t need to actively help women be safe, because that still doesn’t provide full agency to women. You, a man, have to actively stop other men from being unsafe. Either through helping each other grow or force if necessary.
I’m impressed with how close you were to the mark. Seriously I think you understand why the patriarchy is bad. I’m just ust helping you, who I assume is another man, grow hopefully
i will word this differently in the future, thank you. the actions i mean are as you describe: confront men on their bullshit
Bro. I know you’re not a rapist, but you’re going to have to accept that lots of men are rapists. If you want people to think of men in general as nice people, you need to fight the rapists. Right now you’re not doing that.
This is such a horrific take. “If you don’t want people to hate you, you need to hate yourself”. Is that the message you want to send to people? You should be ashamed of yourself. Everyone deserves an equal chance no matter the gender they were born with. I hope you reconsider your bigoted ways in the future.
Its interesting how you interpreted their premises:
- A lot of men are rapists even though you aren’t.
- Be kind.
- Continue to fight the rapists
As “if you don’t want people to hate you, you need to hate yourself”. I don’t understand where you are getting this take from these three premises, could you further explain?
“If you want people to think of men in general as nice people you need to fight the rapists”. You see no problem with that statement? It assumes men are rapists by default. I do not think of men as rapists by default. That is, by definition, sexism. It says “hey unless you prove that you’re one of the Good Ones I’m going to assume otherwise”. You’re okay with that statement and comfortable with it being applied to other groups?
it assumes men are rapists by default.
No, it assumes that rapists are men by default, which is eminently reasonable.
(At least) a full third of the non-male population reports occurrences of sexual assault (which admittedly isn’t rape) by a man. So I’m not sure why that doesn’t offend you much more than the fact that hardly anyone reports being attacked by a bear.
No where in that statement is it suggested to consider ALL men rapists. Where are you getting this? Fighting “the rapists” means fighting the rapists, not all men? You are interpretting this in a way that goes way beyond what was stated.
Are you claiming there aren’t men that are rapists?
So why wouldn’t you fight against these rapist men? Because they are men and you don’t think of them as rapist by default?
We are specifically calling out rapists men, not all men. You are the one who claims that.
I don’t want any rapists to exist. They should all be eliminated.
You can’t argue people into liking you. It doesn’t work like that.
You can argue people into tolerating you, that’s what the queer and civil rights movements have been doing. But once you’re tolerated, arguing doesn’t get you any farther. If you want to be liked, you need to be kind.
Do you think you are being kind in this moment?
Yeah. I’m trying to help you. Your current strategy isn’t making you happy. I want you to be happy. I’m trying to explain how to do that.
You should only hate yourself if you would rape or otherwise harm the woman in the woods.
Everything else is irrelevant.
“If you don’t want people to hate you, you need to hate yourself”. Is that the message you want to send to people?
Where did they say this?? I see nothing telling anyone to hate themselves. They’re saying to fight rapists and that doing so will give men a better reputation. Please explain what you mean by “need to hate yourself”
@reliv3@lemmy.world said:
[…] but for me (who is a man) that [your comment about women being cautious “giving men lasting mental health issues and extreme social anxiety”] is not how it affects me. The fact that there exists a lot of mysogonistic men doesn’t reflect on me. I am confident that I’d be one of the men who’d just leave a woman alone if we ever met in the woods, so knowing that there are a lot of men out their who wouldn’t doesn’t get me salty at the women who are fearful of them; but rather, it gets me salty at the shithead men out there who are ultimately the root of the women’s fear.
which is a based take
What more should we be doing to fight rapists? It’s likely that rape is already proscribed legally and morally wherever most commenters are from.
Dismantle capitalism. Pedophiles like Trump are using their money to get away with it.
Also, support women who complain about rapists.
I do support women who complain about rapists.
Your first point makes you sound unhinged though - that’s not capitalism that’s just power.
deleted by creator
Awwww are your fee fees hurt
Dude you sound so sad. Yes, dudes suck towards women, a lot. Accept it. It’s not a reflection on you personally. But, your reaction is telling (all about ME and MY feelings)
I couldn’t give two shits what some random abusive stranger thinks of me online.
And this isn’t supposed to give men lasting mental health issues and extreme social anxiety?
It’s not like a single instance of abuse by a random would make people care, it’s systematic abuse that does that.
This is more of a general comment though.
you DO realize how horrible it is to hear “I think you’re more dangerous than a random bear just for existing”?
Just about every person is more dangerous than your average bear encounter…
The vast majority of bears that people run into in the wild are black bears, which are mostly harmless.
I as an experienced outdoorsman would much rather stumble across a bear in the deep woods than another lone person, especially in a survival situation. Desperate people are the most dangerous animals by far.
supposed to give men lasting mental health issues and extreme social anxiety?
If this is what gives you extreme social anxiety then you are in serious need of professional help. That sounds like more of a you problem a societal one.
Here’s a short video for you, it’s a compilation of women on a bus just existing in a public space: https://www.tiktok.com/@specere/video/7472932570162924831
Yes, not every man on those busses is being creepy. But if there’s one on every bus that is what women are going to remember. Now imagine a woman who takes the bus regularly dealing with this every day, then being asked if she’d rather encounter a random bear in the woods or a random man in the woods.
She’s encountered random men in public spaces and this is what has happened. No wonder she doesn’t want to encounter them in the woods.Let’s try a quick thought experiment:
Say you’re driving down the road and following all the rules. You come to a gradual stop at a red light, and you’re suddenly hit from behind because the driver behind you wasn’t paying attention.
This accident is not your fault in any way. You did everything right, the other driver fucked up.
But does that mean you can just walk away and everything will be taken care of for you? No, you have to contact insurance companies, arrange for vehicle repairs and alternate transportation until it’s done, notify law enforcement and other agencies under some circumstances, etc.
So why do you have to do anything if it isn’t your fault?
It’s because fault and responsibility are not always the same thing. It sucks, it’s unfair, but it’s just how things work. Sometimes we have to clean up other peoples’ messes.
When it comes to the man or bear question, which is also a thought experiment rather than a personal indictment, it’s not the fault of all men that many women feel the way they do about us. But even for those of us that didn’t cause the problem, it is still our responsibility to acknowledge the lived experiences of others and listen without making it about ourselves.
Enough other men are shitty towards women to make a lot of them sincerely consider whether they would be safer with an average man or average bear. Nobody said anything about you personally or whether they were choosing guaranteed death over time with you.
Empathy is the only way to take meaningful steps toward changing the perception. Invalidating women’s feelings or pretending the pattern doesn’t exist won’t help anyone, including yourself.
Let’s say someone says “I’d rather choose the bear than a black man”, citing their life experience of violence with black men in particular as the reason for this. Should we have empathy for this position? It is their lived experience after all.
how is this being upvoted?? is lemmy really this misogynist?
you DO realize how horrible it is to hear “I think you’re more dangerous than a random bear just for existing”?
Dating men is a minefield. Discarding caution because “it might not be necessary” goes against the point of caution. They feel safer encountering a bear because the bear leaves them alone if left alone. Some men, on the contrary, would actively do something bad even if left alone. The point is not that all or most men are like this. It’s that they can be and assuming that they aren’t is unsafe.
And this isn’t supposed to give men lasting mental health issues and extreme social anxiety?
No?? Strangers not trusting you is perfectly normal. If you think you are owed trust because all women will magically know that you’re trustworthy, you aren’t trustworthy.
Oh, won’t you think of the men! 🙄
My guy. What the fuck. Why would this question give you anxiety? It’s not about you. Why are you taking this so personally it’s giving you anxiety?
The original question when posed wasn’t really meant to be that way.
But it has been reduced down to a couple words (“man or bear?”) reliant on drawing out prejudices rather than a thought provoking perspective.
Like in this thread alone you have a dozen different interpretations on what it is about or means. So as a result it serves as a confirmation bias for even oppositional views. So even feminists and incels alike feel validated by what is being posed and how people answer.
Vagueness is the playground of the prejudiced and divisive.
Bears don’t rape women.
Lol, you think interacting with a bear “likely” leads to getting mauled? I’m sorry, but… Do you know literally nothing about bears other than what you’ve seen on dramatized media?
Is this why some people get so upset by this argument? They think bears = death? Jesus Christ people…
And you actually went out of your way to say the argument is dumb?
Have you ever interacted with a bear? Have you ever been within a few feet of one?
Post of a kind “Men once again prove women right”
Wild how a simple safety tip got turned into a whole fantasy scenario. Sometimes the point really is just: let people feel safe.
This war of the sexes thing has been an ongoing issue for like, at least 8 years, I think. Or maybe a couple of millennia. The only tangible difference between stone slates identifying the moral failings of men and women and twitter posts doing the same are that women are now allowed to own property. Getting offended over pop culture wars is silly.
calling this specific instance a “war” implies that both sides are at fault. women were asked a question, which they answered, the only people offended are sensitive insecure men who insist it’s always somehow the woman’s own fault when she gets raped
you are right: it’s dumb that they’re offended. but have you ever met one? they’re offended by literally everything
Wars don’t require fault, only a casus belli. And often not even that much. Otherwise, trans people would share fault over other ongoing culture wars that pundits arbitrarily pulled them into from the hat of low representation.
But really, caring about any of this beyond recognizing that women want to feel safer is silly. And I’m pretty sure they’ll get their wish, considering society is trending safer by the day. And then, in 2 years, women will rise in defiance of, I don’t know, single parent stereotypes, and I will care just as little, as a non-judgmental person
It’s a war because people like you make it a binary thing. The entire purpose of this particular video was to create divide and paint men in bad light to farm engagement.
I’m not offended by this because I’m a “sensitive insecure men who insist it’s always somehow the woman’s own fault when she gets raped”
I don’t actually believe that.
I’m just annoyed. I’m just a harmless guy trying to live my life yet I am constantly being told that I am worse than hitler for existing as a male. Sorry I have a penis? I swear I didn’t do it on purpose. It just kinda grew in me I didn’t have a say.
Please, by all means, pick the bear if you want to or don’t. I don’t care. Leave me the fuck alone, it’s all I am asking. I just want to exist in peace. Stop bothering me with that shit.
paint men in bad light to farm engagement
and here you are engaging, by your own volition i might add. in order to do what? make sure everyone knows you’re a nice guy? that you’re not “offended,” you’re just “annoyed”? your last paragraph certainly reads as much more than just “annoyed”
also, i am a man, though i’m not surprised in the least that someone who plays the “I am constantly being told that I am worse than hitler for existing as a male” victim card assumes i must be a woman. i have to say though, if you’re constantly being told this, as you say, then have you ever considered the possibility that the problem might be in something you’re doing? i have literally never been told that in my life. i know there are man-hating women out there, but i don’t engage with them. why? because i assume they’d rather i leave them alone. actions speak louder than victim cards
Leave me the fuck alone
by doing what, exactly? not pointing out the fact that way too many women have reasons of their own not to trust strange men? or even fear them? i find that to be tragic, and honestly people who respond to things like this with “no! me! I’M the victim!” make the whole thing worse
I didn’t assume you were a woman. At no point in my comment I mentioned gender except my own.
I’m not surprised someone likes you makes everything about gender and completely missed the point.
I didn’t assume you were a woman.
lol sure bud.
Please, by all means, pick the bear if you want to
please link me to enough instances of men being asked if they would choose bear or woman to make your above statement not imply that you think you’re talking to a woman. i’ll wait.
completely missed the point
so please tell me again: what was your point? i honestly can’t find anything other than it’s “divisive” and you’re the one who’s the victim here, and leave me alone. so, sincerely, help me understand your point of view
Bears don’t discriminate gender.
lol way to address one single thing that has the least to do with the issue at hand
also a bear may or may not attack, but they will definitely not rape you
go ahead and look up the number of bear attacks in a year vs. the number of rapes (keeping in mind that number is only reflecting how many were actually reported). even if you take out the false accusations, you’re still statistically better off choosing bear. even if you’re a man choosing bear over man
anyway nice chatting. i hope you find a woman who chooses man and gives you the trust and respect you’re clearly entitled to
Careful, he’s sensitive! You might offend him! Just leave him alone, why don’t you?!?
These dudes are so, so, SO whiny. Literally on a thread where no one invited them just saying “I’M NICE BUT LEAVE ME ALONE” lolololol
the thing that truly annoys me is people who think they’re owed respect and trust–two things that, to my mind, have to be earned. i don’t just give those things away for free either. sadly a lot of men think they’re entitled to women’s automatic utmost respect, while feeling no obligation to return that respect
evidenced by the number of men who take it as a personal attack on themselves when a woman chooses bear
People not trusting strangers is normal. People who think they are owed exemption from this are untrustworthy.
Sometimes you gotta think about who’s asking the question and why, and not just about the answer. (To that original question.)
Oh, I know that.
Who’s asking: morons.
Why: engagement farming.
It could be, or it could be for more nefarious purposes such as sowing discontent and distrust.
Nah, I don’t think so. The discontent and distrust is a side effect.
Men could be better than a bear at any time, yet they choose to be more dangerous than bears every year.
Curious.
Wait, is that actually happening??
Edit: I thought you meant crime statistics were going up. Don’t mind me
Gang violence is trending up - I guess it’s not a crime though, if the people who decide what’s a crime say it’s okay.
That’s six months out of date
You’re right, those six months have changed the trend of the past 12 years.
If anything I bet under Trumps America, murders by police have only gone down.
Are we counting murders by police as explicit violence causing injury and death, or are we also counting people being thrown in concentration camps and given below-the-minimum-standard access to basic necessities and healthcare?
Yeah, ‘94. Couldn’t be more than 5 or 6 years since then.
don’t make me tap the sign
agender should be the default
This is worse than them implying they deserve to be mauled… It’s literally showcasing that they don’t care. If they don’t get validation, then they will actively allow the mauling.
This is an active action, not a passive one. They are walking by, allowing the violence. It’s definitely proving the point.
I miss when MGTOW wasn’t co-opted by incels. It used to be dudes talking about goals they were pursuing or hobbies they enjoyed. Some were even married!! It was more about trying to “follow your own path” and making sure you carve out time for things you enjoy doing instead of losing your entire life to a family or children or job or feeling like you needed to follow the “traditional” path. But that was over a decade ago. And now, ironically, all MGTOW does is focus on women.
This makes me throw up in my mouth, its just revolting. Miss me with Facebook anything
itt: people not knowing how bears operate
