The other day a guy in my group straight faced said something like “The beauty of D&D is we can make up and try out some rules for, like, a chase scene. If we don’t like them we can be like ok that didn’t work let’s try something else.”
My dude that is not a unique property of D&D. That’s true of any pen and paper game. The fact that D&D provides lousy rules for things and we have to stumble around trying to come up with something that works is not a strength
Tbf, D&D is kind of a stand-in for pen and paper games in pop culture
In this case, the DMG has chase rules (p. 253), but they’re not really good.
So, it has that going on for them?
D&D haters and not reading the official material: name a better duo, I’ll wait.
At least it’s better than the old star wars rpg chase rules
This is why I like Pathfinder. The core of the game is still to make a ruling if you need to to keep the game moving, but there is so much more mechanical support for the things the players might want to do.
I’m really happy for you that this has been your experience. For the campaigns I have played in, the abundance of rules has always felt like it has gotten in the way of the game being played for fun.
The games I GM for are either 5e or another type of game entirely, like Call of Cthulhu. In any of those other games, the rules feel like they exist to support the game. I am a player in a few PF2E games, and in every single one, our sessions barely ever accomplish more than 2 rooms of a dungeon, or a single combat encounter; we spend the entire session checking how exploration actions work, or what the standard DC is supposed to be for a level X creature.
I am glad people enjoy Pathfinder, but so far it has not been for me. I just want other people like me to see that it is okay not to click with a certain game, no matter how popular it is.
It comes with familiarity. The first few Pathfinder sessions I played were rough. There were a few things working in our favour:
- listening to an actual-play podcast made me a lot more comfortable with knowing what PF2E sounds like when it’s being played well (Shoutout to Tabletop Gold!)
- most of the players I started my PF2e group with were eager to play a TTRPG, but didn’t have much previous experience. So they had the drive to pick up the game as well. I definitely think it wouldn’t have gone as smoothly if the whole group was 5e veterans.
- forcing ourselves to stick with it got us over the hump. I was determined to get through the PF2E beginner box no matter how much of a grind it felt like at times, and that made it so the game eventually started clicking for us.
All that being said, it’s definitely not for everyone. I personally think it’s a far better game than D&D 5e, but neither is the perfect TTRPG for everyone. Lots of people aren’t looking for that sort of heroic fantasy action game at all.
We have one member of our group, who we all love dearly, that refuses to play pf2e or go back to pf1e, he will only play 5e. For the rest of us it is exactly as you described. We miss pathfinder so much. Same friend wants to play Starfinder and I’m honestly half decided to run two campaigns at once in the hope it brings him back to the crunchy joy that is Paizo, and we can stop playing the shell of a game that is 5e.
I’m not yucking your yum but as someone who went from PF to PbtA the idea that crunchy is fun is completely foreign to me now.
I do like my RPG crunch in video games tho
Well it’s a year away, but you have Starfinder 2e to look forward to. It is going to be the same exact mechanics as PF2e
Necroposting
Just wanted to come back and say we have been playing PF2E for almost 2 years, so I’m not sure it’s an issue with familiarity. I think anyone would agree PF2E just inherently has more rules than a game like 5e that are relevant to the game every session.
While that’s true, as someone who’s GM’d both, I’d say PF2E is a lot less mental work to run. In 5e, if something weird comes up, I have to actually use my brain and game design something on the fly. It’s entirely possible I come up with something that breaks the game balance, and basically the only tool in my toolbox is giving things advantage and disadvantage, which makes it hard to model what players are actually trying to do. In PF2e, if a player mentions they might want to try something, I can do a quick AON search while the players are debating what to do next, and have an answer at the ready.
For the love of god, try games that aren’t 5e or Pathfinder
This should be an automatic pinned comment.
This makes no sense. No one’s telling you to publish your rules for WotCs benefit. They’re saying you don’t need to feel beholden to rules you don’t agree with. You’re not working for WotC, you’re “working” for yourself.
