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Imagine being angry about the skin color of African Americans. Only to lose your job to an actual African.
The reality is that there aren’t going to be that many White South African “refugees.”
It barely needs to be said, but just to get it out of the way, there is no genocide against them, they aren’t rushing for the borders.
Second of all, seventy percent of White South Africans vote for the Democratic Alliance, the expressly liberal party descended from anti-apartheid parliamentary parties. Though it has it’s conservative wing and it’s leadership has been known to be tone deaf at times, it does reflect that most White South Africans support living within the framework of the Rainbow Nation.
Third and pursuant to the above, it’s not like the DA is the only “White” party. The Freedom Front+ is the expressly right wing, Afrikaner nationalist party, tied to separatist movements, the political home of former apartheiders. Though it can’t openly defend the old order, more than one of it’s members has been investigated for remarks that really come close to crossing the line. And still, a super majority of White South Africans choose the DA.
Lastly, the seriously racist, yearning for apartheid types, don’t want to go to America. They want to carve out the Volkstaat, an Afrikaans-speaking White ethnostate, from the territory of South Africa. It ain’t gonna happen, but leaving the county fully and moving to America would still be a step in the wrong direction for them.
Which leaves the obvious question of, who is actually going to take this offer? Musk fans? The racists who’ll settle for a country run by a racist if they can’t make one of their own? The equivalent of economic migrants? People who’ve taken in too much American culture from Television and the Internet?
It’s a stupid, racist plan and the results, other than showing once again that Trump is stupid and a racist, will amount to a couple lines in the history books about this nadir of American dignity.
It barely needs to be said, but just to get it out of the way, there is no genocide against them, they aren’t rushing for the borders.
No of course not. But this is yet another example of Nazi rhetoric. The “replacement theory”, the so-called “white genocide”.
It bears saying that the percent of Whites murdered annually in South Africa is actually less than their percent of the South African population. The farm murders are bad, but there simply is no evidence of some kind of a concerted effort to kill Whites.
Lastly, the seriously racist, yearning for apartheid types, don’t want to go to America. They want to carve out the Volkstaat, an Afrikaans-speaking White ethnostate, from the territory of South Africa. It ain’t gonna happen, but leaving the county fully and moving to America would still be a step in the wrong direction for them.
It’s already semi-happening in South Africa. Orania has a population of ~3,000 and is growing each year.
When South Africa sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
Nah, when South Africa sends its people they’re often pretty decent.
Trump, on the other hand, scraped the bottom of the barrel for the absolute worst of my countrymen.
It’s trumps quote about Mexicans. I have nothing against people from South Africa in general, but in leery of these folk in particular
It’s a joke referencing how Elon is South African, full of problems, drugs and crime.
He was living in Ontario before he moved to the US.
Ontario can fix a lot if stuff, but Elon was already damaged beyond repair.
I almost landed that EV CEO job but a damn immigrant beat me to it.
In semirelated news, I called a Swasticar an AfrikanerKar recently, and somehow attracted a person dedicated to explaining to me how me using such a term is actually gross and racist and I should feel bad about it.
???
I mean yeah. Afrikaner is basically any white south african with dutch roots. associating them with musk is a dick move
Are you, as well, entirely unaware of the hyper racist history of Afrikaners, as well as their current, still existing, pretty fucking extreme amounts of racism?
I’ve known Germans, exchange students, who can laugh along with an obviously in jest Nazi themed/jab at them. Hell, they’d make the jokes themselves first, and then quickly become extremely serious and say ‘no but for real all that shit was extremely bad’.
I, as a white American, can laugh along when a Native American friend gets a bit miffed at me and makes a joke about me giving him beads for gold, or something to that effect… I can also laugh when I tell a Black friend I love this old blues guitar artist so much its inspired me to try out the style on my guitar, and he says ‘hey as long as you don’t steal all the credit.’
Fuck man, half my cousins are Jewish and they are absolutely the masters of making basically racist stereotype jokes against themselves, totally unprompted.
If I couldn’t laugh at those things, if the German exchange student couldn’t laugh at the Nazi jests… that, that is what would indicate there may be some deep rooted insecurity stemming from not coming to grips with … history, and being able to laugh at its follies.
Oh right and of course there’s also Italian Americans… I am significantly of Italian American heritage, and most of us just unironically love all the Italian American jokes and such, even though the actual Italians and Sicillians have basicslly disowned us at this point rofl.
Many of my Latino friends as well just unironically laugh along with many of the Latino characterizations and jokes… I think you can look up some articles, with polling data backing them, on how like, most Latinos actually do just think Speedy Gonzales is awesome (though of course ‘Slow Lopez’ is MUCH less well recieved), and how the Yo Quiero Taco Bell chihuahua was actually quite popular, but basically cancelled by white people being afraid of appearing/promoting racist tropes.
You can literally just ask people what they do and do not find offensive, instead of taking on your white man’s burden of having to do all that white-knight, racism protection on your own, without any actual input from who you are ‘protecting’.
Even most of the Brits I uses to know would make self-aware, self-degrading imperialism jokes.
…
If you are an Afrikaner and the AfrikanerKar actually offends you, chances are you’re a racist and you’re telling on yourself.
If you are a not racist Afrikaner, chances are you’d appreciate the pun and throw in some other self-aware joke or disown Elon in some way.
If you’re not an Afrikaner, and you’re offended on behalf of a hypothetical percieved possible racism experienced by a hypothetical person, well that’s the definition of performative outrage, tone policing… and also assumes you understand other people’s perception of what is and is not racist better than they do.
You don’t get to decide for people of other races what is or isn’t offensive sove to them.
If you’re not an Afrikaner, and you’re offended on behalf of a hypothetical percieved possible racism experienced by a hypothetical person, well that’s the definition of performative outrage, tone policing… and also assumes you understand other people’s perception of what is and is not racist better than they do.
JFC , now the left wing is talking about “political correctness gone mad”
All I’m saying is that statement is off colour and impolite. You can do whatever the fuck you want.
Oh my god it is supposed to be off color and impolite.
Do you somehow think Swasticar is not off color nor impolite?
And yes, thank you for your permission, sir/madam/yourhonorificofchoice, to allow me, an Anarchist, to continue to do whatever the fuck I want, thank you so much, I needed permission.
Do you somehow think Swasticar is not off color nor impolite?
Wow, great. You got me, I used a milder word instead of Bigoted or Racist. Great work Anarchist boy, you sure told me how to behave.
Fuck off you child.
I didn’t tell you anything, I asked you a question.
You, on the other hand, gave me permission as if you have some kind of authority over me, and have now graduated to direct commands.
If you don’t wanna deal with me, please, by all means, use your lemmy-given clientside ability to block me.
Especially since Musk’s family history is primarily from the English side.
I hate that I share so much in common with that scum 🤮
My experience was South Africa after living inside it for several years, is that many of the English South Africans were just as racist, but happy to let the Afrikaners do the dirty work and take the blame. After all, English speakers make up about 40% of the white population.
Oh there are plenty of incredibly racist Anglophone South Africans - no denying that. It’s just that there’s nothing he could do to make the Afrikaner Nationalists welcome him because he’s not an Afrikaner by blood.
As a generalisation, the racist white South Africans also tend to have an English/Afrikaans tribalism that provokes tension, while the non-racist ones also tend not to give a damn about that tribalism either. The same is somewhat (but not entirely) true of racist black South Africans, and honestly that distrust amongst the various racist groups is a major reason that South Africa has been able to make so much progress.
Very good points!
Imagine how upset the racists were after WW2. First a bunch of immigrants running away from Europe started coming over, then their boys lost the war, then some much more qualified racists got all the cool science jobs.
Hate1Bs.
Intellectually lacking white people forget that, for the vast majority of countries out there, 95% of those you will love and hate look pretty similar to you because most countries are very ethnically homogeneous. We understand that it’s their character, which is not locked in with the skin and facial structure (because, again, people of the same tribe look pretty similar so I can’t hate you for superficial reasons without also hating my brother and myself), what will make the biggest difference in how they treat us. Also, ngl, I blame this on Germanic/Nordic autism that reduces their capacity and interest to understand and relate to others, so it’s not so much on them, and if you’ve ever visited and you’re a native of any country under France, you understand. Idk, perhaps taking part of worldwide murder and pillage whilst fighting your neighbours throughout centuries does something to a people’s psyche.
Idk what it’s gonna take for Westerners to have a complete ideological change, but maybe future Americans in their “V for Vendetta” styled isolationist ethnostate will run out of brown people to blame for their failures/being conned by richer white people and start understanding humanity. God willing.
You know racism is ubiquitous globally right? Americans and “westerners” don’t have a monopoly on prejudice
There’s “you’re black and that’s shocking to me because I’m a Chinese person from a rural area so my reaction will be dramatic and I’ll probably rub my finger on your skin and make you feel awkward even” and there’s “you’re not people and it’s God’s own will/‘in your best interests, trust me’ for me to take this land and you as beasts of burden” like the proto American Brits did to the Natives (and the Spaniards and Portuguese too but at least they integrated and mixed too, not just murdered and separated), the French and British to Africa (to this day too! The French army ain’t in Africa for the sake of the population, lol), the Belgian to the Congolese, the Dutch in Asia (pioneers in both corporatism and slave trade!), the Israeli (literal Eastern Europeans and Germanics following through a European colonial project that has sadly lasted until today, lol) etc etc.
Listen, idk exactly why the white man has had a quasi monopoly on violent, genocidal racism (I think it’s a lack of belief system with strict moral values, as evidently the Law of Moses didn’t reach them) for at least a millennia and a half, but to say it isn’t true is to ignore history. And the few moral, intelligent and brave men who stood up for it have paid the price (ever heard of John Brown?). You may deny it (we are, after all, in the e-“palace of the pharaoh”, I know what the probable demographics are in certain online areas of discourse), but go around the world and ask about it and you’ll see an unanimous reasonable wariness of the West…
Uh… are… you at all familiar with the history of Eastern Asia?
Do… you know a good number of people from varying Asian backgrounds?
The (South) Koreans and Japanese and Chinese (who are of course many different ethnic groups, but for this example, lets simplify) are very, very often, very racist towards each other, and the Japanese … actions during WW2… are still extremely fresh and present in the minds of many Koreans and Chinese.
I used to date a woman who was half Korean and half Vietnamese, and most of the Korean side of her family routinely referred to her as a term roughly equivalent to ‘half breed’ or ‘mulatto’.
Even within say, Japan, you’ll get fairer skinned Japanese basically being racist against more tan Japanese.
I used to know a half Japanese, half Filipino guy who got racist shit thrown at him all the time by both sides.
I am also friends with a woman from Singapore, who is ethnically Malay, and she’d tell me about all the times she got racism slung her way by other ethnic groups, how the native Malays are largely an underclass now… these were fairly major factors in her deciding to migrate to Canada.
… White people may be the all time historical top scorers in terms of racist genocide kill counts… but racist genocides and horrendous mistreatment are far from unique, presently or historically, to white people.
I mean shit… are Israelis white, rofl?
If you as uh, this guy, the answer is apparently no?
https://abcnews.go.com/US/miami-man-arrested-after-shooting-2-men-mistakenly/story?id=118943165
The Israelis are certainly aiming to get as high up as they can on that all time racist genocide kill count leaderboard.
I straight up agree with everything you’ve said, I don’t think we disagree, lol. White people do have the high scores, and white societies seem to have been more or less okay with it from then til now, but people are fearful and racist all around the world. One group is just more consistently violent about it!
And yes, Israelis are white, have you seen what the locals actually look like? How do you think they can tell easily the Israelis from the actual historical, local Jews that lived there (and eventually converted to Islam and Christianity)? Have you checked the original last names of folks like Netanyahu?! Do you think Bar Rafaeli Is of anything but European stock? And yes, I did see the news of the Israeli on Israeli ‘crime’, lol, I’m not surprised but it’s an honest mistake made by a very unstable, violent, unreasonable, racist murderer.
Just see the videos of the genocide and you’ll see it’s the same as always: colonialist whites murdering the browns. Idk why, idk when this bloodthirst will stop, but I can tell you that it’s gonna be very much alive in our lifetime at least in America…
You say you agree but you still seem to actually not agree.
As for Israelis being white?
I mean…I literally gave an example of an almost certainly, generally ‘white’ or ‘white passing’, American Jew… who fucking shot two Israeli tourists in Florida, because he thought they were Palestinian.
I would very much be willing to bet that is because the tourists were more tan.
Myself personally?
So of course all this whiteness vs not whiteness and all racism is bullshit, but uh no, I cannot actually tell many Israelis from many Palestinians, if they were dressed similarly, I didn’t know their names or anything about them… hell, even spoken Israeli Hebrew sounds pretty similar to spoken Arabic to my untrained ear.
Israelis are not all just easily, massively more white or pale than all Palestinians.
Like… you are saying the racist violent criminal made an honest mistake, that honest mistake being that his racist stereotype was innacurate to the point he thought actual Israelis were Palestinian.
You have assumed that the American shooter in the Florida story is himself Israeli…
When this is never stated in the article, nor any article about this I can find. In all likelihood, Brafman is an American Jew, not an Israeli.
My own cousins are American Jews, who consistently make their own unprompted, self-defaming jokes based on their Jewishness… and to me, many, many Israelis look distinct to them.
Not all Jews are Israeli.
Not all Jews are Zionist, my cousins for example are secular Jews who are not super religiously devout, but they do partake in many Jewish traditions (they’re the reason I know the dradel dradel dradel song, etc) … but they are also quite against the Palestinian genocide.
But they are also far more ‘white’ or ‘white passing’ than a significant number of actual, born and raised in Israel, Israelis.
Bro, the VAST MAJORITY of American Jews and Israelis are of the same mixed Eastern European and Germanic stock, hence their looks and last names, lol. Where do you think all these -bergs and -owskys are coming from, Syria? I mean, this is evidently a bit of a personal topic as you said you’re part of an American Jewish family but what do you look like ? Are you not white of European stock or are you a Japanese/Moroccan/Nepali man?
And I’m glad your cousins are not Zionists (many Israelis are, but not a singular Jew is a Zionist), the more moral non-sociopaths the better! But those who are, and those who support the colonial state of Israel either have blood on their hands, knowingly agree with what’s happening and would make the same hell damning decisions, or are too mentally challenged/lazy to even try to understand what’s going on but support death and destruction regardless. They really do believe that they can murder and pillage to their heart’s content (like the proto Americans and the Natives, a story as old as Europe…).
You just skipped over the part where you assumed an American Jew was an Israeli, just literally doing the thing I am pointing out that the ignorant often do.
I really don’t know how to better spell this out for you than:
Yes, a good number of Israelis are more pale skinned… but…
There are many, many Israelis, as in, born, raised, in Israel, live in Israel, have Israeli citizenship by birth… who are significantly more tan than what most white people would consider ‘white passing’, as well as having different facial features than is more common is white, European heritage, American Jews.
…
Lets try pictures.
https://www.artfido.com/this-is-what-the-average-person-looks-like-in-each-country/
These amalgamations and averages were all done before AI image gen became a thing. They are the result of mathematical averaging algorithms, not hallucinatory nonsense, and fairly large sample sizes… I think the photos were originally collected and processed between something like 2010 and 2014.
I look fairly close to this ‘white american’ composite.
My grandmother is Italian and Norweigian. Her husband was some kind of mixture of French and German. My dad is thus a mix of those, as am I.
My Jewish cousins come from my aunt, my dad’s sister… but their father was … well, before he died, he referred to his heritage as Yiddish, unfortunately he passed when both I and my cousins were still kids… I think he may have come from a mixture of German, Polish, Russian heritage, I am not 100% sure… his family got the fuck out of Europe before or during WW1, settled in New York.
My cousins are as fair skinned as I am, but have distinctive enough facial features (and a very stereotypically suffixed Jewish family name) that they’ve gotten a good deal of antisemitism in their lives.
Go look at all the Mediterranean or Balkan countries, their composite average representations.
Most Americans I’ve known fairly frequently confuse Greeks with Iraqis, Romanians with Iranians, etc.
This ‘white passing’ shit is rarely more complicated than just skin tone, and many more actual Israelis simply are more tan than many American Jews.
I understand that white supremacy and the history behind it is its own unique dynamic, but so are other forms of racism. There have been numerous ethnic cleansings in Africa that didn’t involve white people, the Armenian genocide was perpetrated by non whites, balkanization, the Indian subjugation of kashmiris, the frankly bewildering levels of racism between various Asian ethnic groups, we can keep going but I feel like that is sufficient.
Your characterization of the genocide in Palestine is not only wrong, but also bordering on racist itself in the wildly inaccurate generalizations you make of the Jewish/Hebrew diaspora. We could go into the history of the Hebrew people, because their history as victims of racist, religious, and ethnic violence disproves your entire point. They’ve been subject to so many genocides and ethnic cleansings throughout their history that our modern conceptions of racist violence are largely informed by their history. White people weren’t the only ones subjugating Jews. Judaism predates the existence of whiteness as a concept by millennia, so how exactly am I wrong?
Judaism predates the history of “whiteness”, of course, and Zionists are white people who don’t believe in the God of Moses and are as Jewish as American megachurch goers who follow supply side Jesus could be considered his followers… If any of them came back and checked what his so called people are doing in their names, they’d have mental breakdowns, lol.
From Sykes-Picot to Netanyahu (actual last name Mileikowsky), it’s been nothing but a European colonialist project, and “a land with no people for people without land” only worked because, as usual, these Europeans didn’t see the brown locals (Jews, Muslims, Christians…) as people. You can’t deny history in earnest, but if you’re paid to do so, fair enough.
Being European doesn’t necessarily mean you’re white. The Irish are European (and the whitest of the bunch if skin color was the only factor) and for the longest time they weren’t considered white, and were subject to the same oppression and genocide from the “real whites”. Many Jewish people, and many Zionist for that matter, may have European ancestry, but they aren’t really considered white. Some might be white passing, but the Jewish diaspora is multi ethnic and largely unified by their religion/family history. Even the ones from a “white” background aren’t considered white because they’re Jewish first in the minds of those who seek to enact racist violence against them
Hey, oh, guy of vaguely Italian American descent over here!
Yeah, Italians also were not ‘really white’ untill… what, roughly the 1960s/70s, in the US?
“They weren’t considered white” only for ideological reasons that can only hold water amongst white Europeans (this is a tautology), lol, don’t give me that. Just because you’re all problematic amongst yourselves, confused and really needed a caste system in America doesn’t mean you’re not of the same tribe and ideologically waaaaaay more similar than different. That’s why the Europeans have historically moved the same whether they’re in the American continent, in the Middle East, in South Africa, in India, etc etc.
The Europeans Jews (whether they believe or not, I’m talking about the ethnic and cultural group) are evidently European, the Zionist movement was constructed by European and American (displaced Europeans, I’m not talking about the Natives here) Jews, the ones murdering and pillaging the region in the name of Israel are Europeans, etc etc.
Racism is a nebulous ideology full of contradictions. It completely crumbles under close examination. You highlighting the internal inconsistencies of racism and going “see! It doesn’t matter that the visibly white people aren’t white!” Isn’t proving the point you think it is. There is no white tribe. It’s a myth. You’re fighting a ghost. The European continent is full of numerous ethnic and cultural groups. Groups that were at each other’s throats for most of their history. Some still are to this day. Again, the Irish are a perfect example of this.
If I said all Africans are of the same tribe and waaaay more similar than they are different, you’d lose your shit. It’s the same deal. Whiteness doesn’t exist, white supremacy does. It’s complicated and makes no sense. It’s not supposed to make sense, it’s a tool of oppression just like any other form of racism.
Between your comments on race and your comments on religion, it’s obvious that you’ve constructed a comfy narrative for yourself where all of the views you hold are the right ones and they absolve you of all wrongdoing perpetuated by members of your race and religion, choosing instead to lay the blame solely on others. You have no incentive to think otherwise, you’re perfect, your beliefs are perfect, and the people like you who do bad things aren’t really what they say they are. Enjoy your delusion
Many Zionists are white christians who support Israel’s genocide out of a mix of theological and anti-muslim racism…
But many Zionists are also… Israelis. Many of whom are not ‘white passing’ by many of those same white christians.
You are the one with a wildly innacurate view of the history of the Jewish/Hebrew people, and the current state of things.
The kinds and levels of racism going on right now are so complex that they have basically horseshoe’d around into a new kind of insane nonsense, which apparently is what you subscribe to.
The history and present situation are more complex than your overly simplified view expressed in your above comment.
Zionists cannot be God fearing, because accepting Zionism is like accepting Nazism or Manifest Destiny: those who don’t look like me will be dehumanised so I can get their lands and resources (and even possibly their forced labor). They’re all problematic atheists, evidently, the same way all American politicians who have funded genocide for decades will call themselves Christian but they could only fool the blind and mentally impaired. And Israelis are of European stock, tf? Do they look Nigerian, Moroccan or Japanese to you? Bolivian or Polynesian maybe? Lol. If this is not a bit, or you’re not a paid agent, then I guess your heart’s in the right place because you care in earnest about racism but the hardware upstairs is lacking/propaganda has infected you deeply. And it really isn’t more complex than “Israel was a French and British colonialist project (they ended up owning a huge chunk of the Middle East after WW1) that has murdered, pillaged and cornered the native population for about a century” and anyone who believes differently hasn’t done even the quickest of online searches. What is it? Do you feel like I’m saying it’s your fault and that’s why you’re recoiling? Cause I’m not. Or is it just your propagandised psyche in cognitive pain?
God commands, enacts and endorses genocide many times in the Torah, your theological/political worldview is… contentious at best, dubious at worst.
Zionists, Israeli Zionists, in point of fact, actively use these sections of the Torah to justify the ongoing genocide of Palestinians, regardless of whether or not they are Atheists or devout Jews, regardless of whether or not they believe these Biblical stories are literally, historically true.
The Palestinians are just the modern Canaanites, by their rhetoric, and must be cleansed to secure God’s promised land.
This rhetoric is actively being taught in Israeli public schools, right now, and historically.
You have a very misinformed view of the world.
No, Zionists are mostly Jews and Christians. Same as the modern wave of American fascisn is explicitly Christian. They say as much and use their respective religious texts to opress others. Many evangelical churches spew religiously motivated hate very Sunday, and perpetuate the state’s propaganda to the Christian masses. There are atheist Zionists and fascists, sure, but to say that those movements are atheist movements is so hilariously wrong I don’t even know how you’ve managed to convince yourself of it
Those rich white people have a capacity and interest in understanding other people (they “network” amongst themselves all the time.)
The disconnect comes from who they consider to be “people.” Talk to anyone who’s done domestic or other service work for somebody ultra rich if you want a real eye-opener. The rich see poor people the way most people see farm animals - things to use for their own benefit. They don’t feel bad about abusing us because they truly don’t think we’re equal to them. That’s not autism. That’s a toxic culture that depends on dehumanization.
