Hey everyone, hope you’re doing well. For some time, lemmy’s been struggling with donations. For all these years, the lemmy devs, like them or hate them; have been building the software that powers the entirety of the forumverse (that’s what i’m calling it, fuck you) so if you have even a dollar/euro/peso/whatever to give, it would be greatly appreciated (by the lemmy devs, and all instance admins!)
Good day to y’all :D
crossposted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/29579005
An open source project the size of Lemmy needs constant work to manage the project, implement new features and fix bugs. Dessalines and I work full-time on these tasks and more. As there is no advertising or tracking, all of our work is funded through donations. Unfortunately the amount of donations has decreased to only 2000€ per month. This leaves only 1000€ per developer, which is not enough to pay my bills. With the current level of donations I will be forced to find another job, and drastically reduce my contributions to Lemmy. To avoid this outcome and keep Lemmy growing, I ask you to please make a recurring donation:
Liberapay | Ko-fi | Patreon | OpenCollective | Crypto
If you want more information before donating, consider the comparison with Reddit. It began as startup funded by rich investors. The site is managed by corporate executives who over time have become more and more disconnected from normal users. Their main goal is to make investors happy and to make a profit. This leads to user-hostile decisions like firing the employee responsible for AMAs, blocking third-party apps and more. As Reddit is a single website under a single authority, it means all users need to follow the same rules, including ridiculous ones like censoring the name “Luigi”.
Lemmy represents a new type of social media which is the complete opposite of Reddit. It is split across many different websites, each with its own rules, and managed by normal people who actually care about the users. There is no company and no profit motive. Much of the work is carried out by volunteer admins, mods and posters, who contribute out of enthusiasm and not for money. For users this is great as there is no advertising nor tracking, and no chance of takeover by a billionaire. Additionally there are no builtin political or ideological restrictions. You can use the software for any purpose you like, add your own restrictions or scrutinize its inner workings. Lemmy truly belongs to everyone.
Dessalines and I work fulltime on Lemmy to keep up with all the feature requests, bug reports and development work. Even so there is barely enough time in the day, and no time for a second job. Previously I sometimes had to rely on my personal savings to keep developing Lemmy for you, but that can’t go on forever. We partly rely on NLnet for funding, but they only pay for development of new features, and not for mandatory maintenance work. The only available option are user donations. To keep it viable donations need to reach a minimum of 5000€ per month, resulting in a modest salary of 2500€ per developer. If that goal is reached Dessalines and I can stop worrying about money, and fully focus on improving the software for the benefit of all users and instances. Please use the link below to see current donation stats and make your contribution! We especially rely on recurring donations to secure the long-term development and make Lemmy the best it can be.
Just to point out that the developer’s Marxism is truly an irrelevant thing in all places that matter. Their efforts in software development are 99% more impactful to your life than their theoretical support of authoritarian regimes will ever be. And as bad as their denial of historical or current event might be, they’re ultimately inconsequential. They’re not in charge of foreign policy. They would never have an impact in Chinese internal politics. However them being Marxist at least ensures that they nominally have their ideology towards the right location in support for the disenfranchised instead of the rich. Even if like 50$ per month go to the .ml instance, it truly matters very little.
Honestly, people need to get some perspective on how much impact being a Marxist online has in the world. It has none. Marxists as a political force are mostly irrelevant no matter how eloquently they will try to claim global south revolutionary efforts as their own. Efforts in FOSS however is obviously very relevant and impactful.
PS: Yes, their statements on transgender people are problematic, but they seem to want to retract them.
Let’s see.EDIT: WelpAll that said, if you still can’t bring yourselves to donate to lemmy devs because 0.1% of that might go towards the lemmy.ml hosting costs, you have no excuse to not donate to your own instance. Our donation buttons are on the main page and not only do you fund this instance, but also all the development efforts in tooling such as Threativore and Fediseer which are also FOSS.
I think it’s worth it to put in a P.S.S. there now that
Desnut basically said “sorry I got caught”Like seriously this dude is a massive piece of shit, not because he’s a Marxist-Leninist or a tankie or whatever; he’s a transphobe. I hold him in the same regard as I hold Elon Musk at this point because the only real difference is I’m pretty sure
Desnut doesn’t have a trans daughter.nutomic you mean?
Oh yeah I didnt even read his name my bad
This is my opinion, most people think nothing about not spending on a business that has right wing opinions, because they see them as harmful.
The developers of Lemmy and .ml are packaging arguably (for many, this is just an opinion) harmful rhetoric into their free platform at base with their moderation. The one developer that has tried to distance themselves from thar rhetoric, can’t help but engage in it when pressed.
Frankly that’s a fucking propoganda tool, and if throwing away .ml is throwing away Lemmy, then I hope someone forks the project and continues development without the baggage.
I’m not responsible for the developers shooting themselves in the foot with their opinions, that’s on them!
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Right - frankly I only have a dbzer0 account because I thought the general vibe was less factional than .world or sht.justworks, it’s surprising me that so many people seem to be loosing the forest for the trees on this.
There are very few other FOSS projects that I use every single day, and I don’t hesitate supporting any of them even though I have no idea what their personal views on worker liberation or trans rights are. I’m quite confident that I align more with the ML lemmy devs politically than most of the other FOSS project developers I interact with, and not because I agree with them on the use of state power or trans exclusion.
Anyway, Nutomic is saying there are support links you can donate through that do not go towards the ml server costs - I recommend anyone who’s using lemmy and has an issue with the .ml political views donate through those instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater by boycotting the platform they’re enjoying.
Extremely hinged post as usual. Even in light of the transphobia/non apology it is worth pointing out lemmy is one of the only places we can connect and discuss things like DIY hormones without censorship or corporate surveillance.
Lemmy dying for lack of maintenance will not help us in the struggle for equality.
Nice to see you around again. How come you feel the need to use your dbzer0 account to comment instead of your day2day one?
I just logged into this one to check this instance. the vtc one has less federation which is good for mental health, bad for large discussions. Also using either vtc or hexbear gets people doing the “ahhh you’re a tankie” thing eyerolling I was working with the extremely lib greens party over the election here haha. Anarchists, MLs, and Libs can all call me a traitor!
Been busy, mate went through shit, going back to grad school to change career, local action group started and then died because of flaky people (<3 my anarchist comrades that are so against hierarchy even scheduling is too oppressive haha. Seriously I do although it’s very funny and fail).
Ah well, ADHD and anarchism, name a more fitting combo :)
Anyway glad to see you’re still active in our corner as well.
I would have assumed I had a reputation as shit stirrer and trouble-maker ;) if one at all haha.
Bruh Nutomic doubles down on transphobia again and you still want your users to send him money? I’d take down the post if I were you. To be clear when Nutomic says “support Lemmy devs” he is literally saying “give me money so I don’t have to work.”
There are other activitypub projects to support. Support piefed.
I mean wierd that you are taking does full time work on the project you are using, is the same as “so I dont have to work”
Db0 has since updated their statement.
The update now is just “Edit: Welp” and I wanted to point that out to you if you hadn’t seen it because it got a laugh out of me. Relatable.
Is the crazy tankie still the one who’s get the money?
Then lol, never
Oh, and apparently donating does to the .ml server costs, too? Idk how true that is, but hell no if true and gross how much this is getting spammed around
There’s piefed too; i’m very interested in it (even contributed to it, not through code though; through ideas to rimu and even a whole theme) it’s still too early to be used by us, but if you’re interested: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/38328295/16837857
I’d love to run a piefed instance, as I can hack its code directly. Sadly it’s just not as mature, One can’t migrate instances, and there’s not enough time in the world :(
Ye if it matures I might host a new instance, but I have my hands full enough with one as is it.
I’m using the theme, so thank you.
Glad to hear somebody’s using it :D
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And who says I dont? I’m pointing out an alternative. I heavily disagree with their opinions but I’m still grateful for them making Lemmy.
Agreed.
Never, unless funds can be 100% directed AWAY from .ml and its sycophants.Can you donate directly to other devs? That really is very concerning, and I really don’t want to help .ml…
As it says there, you can to nutomic, but they’re famously a massive transphobe who claims that trans people are western propaganda (Id forgotten that until I read the comments on the post I linked)
I’ve said it off platform for a whole - Lemmy’s a waste of time because the devs are garbage people the community actively hates. Unless someone forks it or the current devs hand it over I don’t see Lemmy making it much further than this tbh. I kinda expected them to give up on the project from all the mass hate they got a while ago, but part of what makes them annoying is how stubborn they are lol
most devs are garbage, ppl just have their views hiddes as facelss corporate cogs typicallycmost ppl in general tbh, just talking to drunk strangers will make you hate most ppl, they do more for me than you, they gave me this platform, they let me bitch and see your bitching lol
“Massive transphobe” is a huge exaggeration, I wrote a single private message which wasnt well thought out and simply a mistake. Does that invalidate all the work I did over the last five years to make Lemmy what it is today?
Just to be clear here, you retract that statement about transgender people? Do you actually believe that trans rights are human rights and not “a wedge issue for the left” or somesuch? Like it or not, that single statement of yours turned away a lot of people who could look past your Marxism-Leninism, including other Marxists like Hexbears, so making the your opinion clear on the record could go a long way.
Sure I retract everything I said in that private message, it was posted without much thinking and certainly not meant for publication. Not sure what “trans rights” are exactly, but obviously human rights apply to everyone including transgender people.
…my guy… It still sounds you’re just sorry you got caught.
So let’s cut the bullshit. Do you still think “the transphobic topic is clearly promoted by the bourgeoisie”? Do you think trans women should be allowed to compete as the women they are in olympic sports? Do you still call them “biological men”?
Even more to the point: Should trans people be treated by everyone else and the society at large (yes, including a potentially socialist one) as the gender they identify themselves?
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Do you also perform this kind of background check for every product you buy in the supermarket? Or is this level of scrutiny reserved for open source developers that give software away for free? Fact is that none of this is related to Lemmy development in the slightest. Would you be happier if I left Lemmy to stagnate so users go back to Reddit?
So just mildly transphobic? Alright, sold, donating now.
Yes that absolutely invalidates your work
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Does that mean you will stop using Lemmy? Just curious.
Why? I donated my instance for the server costs and FOSS is FOSS for a reason.
That reason being that I decided to give my work for free for the world to use. You’re welcome.
When it goes away, then I’ll just start using a different part of the fediverse.
Lemmy will not go away so you can keep using it. Im glad you like the software despite our disagreement.
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Would you donate for Lemmy development if lemmy.ml had a separate donation account?
I would
Actually lemmy.ml hosting is only funded via Opencollective, so if you donate through any other platform the money goes entirely to developer salaries.
I’ve already donated a few times but this would genuinely be a good idea imo, Lemmy.ml’s userbase can likely keep it running by itself & it removes the ick factor from having any of my money go toward it and seemingly one of the more significant roadblocks to people donating.
I do genuinely love what you’ve created!
Actually lemmy.ml hosting is only funded via Opencollective, so if you donate through any other platform the money goes entirely to developer salaries.
Ahhh, I didn’t entirely realise that! no hesitation in me donating in the future then. & once again many thanks for creating this platform!
Youre welcome!
If I may ask, was the interaction with that user a misunderstanding, or how did that happen?
I also don’t want to donate to lemmy.ml, but would like to support general Lemmy development. I’m just a bit confused how those got thrown together.
Some user messaged me out of nowhere asking me to work for free to integrate some kind of browser plugin to track “transphobes” (so people like me, apparently). If theres one thing that pisses me off its people acting entitled and demanding I work for free for them. Plus it sounded like a violation of user privacy. So I quickly wrote a response without thinking much about it.
Appreciate the clarification, thank you!
As long as you and saline are involved: not a chance of my money going to the project
This is the opinion of a vast portion of the userbase given the comments I’ve seen on this spam today
As long as the people who created Lemmy are involved with Lemmy, I will not donate.
What a convenient excuse to never make any donation for the software you use every single day. You almost make me regret creating this platform.
not OP but for me its ur authoritarian beliefs that make me feel icky about donating to u, not the fact that yall created lemmy.
not that i wouldnt look past that, but it does make me a bit more hesitant.
Authoritan beliefs such as creating Lemmy and giving it away for free?
Play dumb all you want, that’s part of why you won’t get anything
Either you’re willingly stupid or you know exactly what we mean and are playing dumb, neither deserves respect nor money
He’s being super cagey here very carefully talking about “developer salaries” trying to hide the fact that he’s soliciting direct donations to himself and Dessalines, who are the people who have chosen to run .ml the way they have, and who are now dealing with the consequences of being petty asshole despots to the broader fediverse.
Personally I don’t have a grudge against .ml because of their politics, I have a grudge against them because of the way I have been treated directly by these two. You want me to give you money so you can ban me for increasingly idiotic and petty reasons? Fuck off. Or apologize, and then fuck off.
I’ll make a big donation to piefed instead.
i specifically said:
not the fact that yall created lemmy
ive been around on lemmy since very early on, back when dev.lemmy.ml was a thing, and ive seen my fair share of the tankie shit yall posted, so i think u know what im talking about actually.
It’s obvious to me that Nutomic and Dessalines both have gigantic hearts.
Anybody who promotes human rights and concepts like socialism are incredibly courageous.
im very grateful to them for creating lemmy…
but neither that nor supporting some human rights exempts u from also harboring harmful beliefs and supporting harmful things.
and like i said, that doesnt mean they dont deserve donations, but it does make me more hesitant to donate.
I choose to not practice condemning others or otherwise putting them down. Fighting hate with hate usually results in more hate. That’s my personal strategy, at least. Follow your heart, I say.
Thank you for creating this platform. It’s a critically needed service for discourse. I hope others reconsider their strong stances against you and Dessalines.
Lemmy is of incredible value to humanity and not a moment passes where I am not grateful for this platform and the hard work put into it. I’m sure many, many others feel similarly.
I have seen this excuse sky rocket after you made the distinction of open collective. I find it fastenating how when you answered there criticism they suddenly decide that if you or Des are involved in any way, they cannot suport it.
Relevant context: https://lemmy.ml/comment/18395421
The devs activly support calls for the deaths of all americans on ML. There needs to be a way of supporting the codebase without supporting the core devs…
Support the codebase without supporting the people who write the codebase seems impossible. Unless you want to fork it and then take the money for that.
That’s piefed. Donate to piefed. Fuck Nutomic and Dessalines.
And to be clear, not because of their politics, but because of they way they treat their users. You don’t get to be assholes to people and then beg them for money.
Yeah, theres a whole universe of solutions if youre actually interested in finding them…
Sure, I am open to hearing it.
ok, im just spitballing here but what if, there was like a community of devs that took donations to develop the code. but this time they dont actively support calls for genocide, or deny obvious genocides or something like that. maybe a charity could be involved…
Is there any source to that claim? It sounds ridiculous even by lemmygrad and hexbear standards
Here I talk about how a tankie called for my death, I called him stupid, and dessalines banned me.
https://lemmy.world/post/20389892Perhaps I need more coffee, but I don’t see where a hexbear or .ml person said that. I see the modlog where you said they said that, and then got removed/banned, but I don’t see someone from Hexbear saying it.
Maybe I’m just missing something, however.
EDIT: Checked the post, you were defending an IDF soldier being happy with murder. When confronted with this, you went “how is a genocide? How is Israel the bad guy?” You clearly deserved to have your post removed.
You also went to Hexbear, violated the rules, and then complained that you were banned for the rules being enforced. You were being a troll and then claimed victim when you were called out.
You seem to be intentionally misconstruing what I said.
Youre fabricating this quote from me:
When confronted with this, you went “how is a genocide? How is Israel the bad guy?” You clearly deserved to have your post removed.
This is exactly the tactic of the tankies I was confronting whem I got banned from ml…
This is exactly the tactic of the tankies I was confronting whem I got banned from ml…
The screenshots of your own words seem to suggest:
- You supported the IDF
- You doubled down on these claims, saying that the IDF being the bad guys is “Chinese propaganda”
- You weren’t told to die, and people from other instances disagree with that being the message
Unless the link you gave is actually proof of the opposite.
The screen shot is me saying the exact opposite, im explaining how I dont support the IDF but all the tankies are lying and pretending im saying the opposite, and theyre lying about not seeing the threat. Highlight the part of your screenshot where I defend the IDF or Isreal… you cant because its not in there.
All you need to do is read the comments in the link I posted to see a screenshot of the threats, but you seem to intentionally avoid reading them…
EDIT: heres a screenshot for ya:
so your argument is, and I want to ge this clear as an outside observer is, when screenshots of what you said are brought up “I did not say that its all the evil Commies who are lieing” dispite the plain text showing that what you are saying is the one that does not proport with reality?
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just from context, I can gather that this is discussing Hila Kline of the H3 podcast, and I think it’s kind of wild that anyone would still be trying to claim that her attitude about her illegal activities while serving in the IDF is anything other than pride, or at a minimum defense. “She’s literally never said those words” isn’t really a defense when plenty of other (far braver) ex-IDF soldiers have come forward to comment on their own regret of participating in war crimes and genocide, even if they had no knowledge of their illegality at the time. Hila herself acknowledges this as a genocide (at least, she acknowledges the administration as genocidal), so I’m not sure why else she wouldn’t address that accusation if not because she feels proud of her service.
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The comment you’re highlighting isn’t even close to supporting calls to the death of all americans, and in fact I think the sentiment it’s expressing is the bare-minimum acknowledgement americans should have for their country’s origin. Maybe you just find it uncomfortable being confronted by reality, but it’s a factual statement to say the US is a settler-colonial state, and we are all settler-colonists. I don’t see any problem with acknowledging that as a verifiable statement.
I feel like someone on an anarchist instance should be able to at least acknowledge the past and current crimes of their imperialist nation state of origin without feeling personally threatened about it.
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Ok but also lowkey fuck america
this feels more like an endorsement for donating than an indictment.
Honestly if America was gone I think we’d be better off tbh
Another example why “unlimited genocide on the first world” remains relevant
(libs not getting JDPON memes is funny AF)
As an American, death to America and all its cultists known as citizens who worship its civil religion of exceptionalism. 🫡🫡
How many layers of irony am I even on here.
Well, you can always do the liberal thing instead and sell Lemmy off to a billionaire parasite like Zuckerberg or Bezos. I’m sure they will always welcome another right-wing social media mouthpiece.
Take your pick.
Liberals would rather have Lemmy die than fund the services and servers, it’s rather telling they want one unified opinion to be for all of Lemmy. And if the devs wanted the same thing, they’re evil and trying to control the platform.
Right now dbz0 is having people brigade it because we want to have AI on our platform. They’re mad we have our own rules on our own instance.
Right? Like isn’t that the entire point of the Fediverse? Aren’t we meant to be able to exist in little instances with values that we align with? And if people don’t like it, they’re free to move somewhere else, or peacefully block us and our ways?
Tell that to the .world users who wants dbzer0 gone because we don’t like copyright.
.world is the worst of the large activity groups, and it is worse because they are big enough they can start to manufacture concent that everyone else is bad, and then scare people off from the other instances. They to me feel like a group of people who are only mad at reddit because reddit hurt them, but have no issue with the fraimwork that made reddit reddit, and so are creating a distilled version of reddit.
It’s like how some people on Mastodon didn’t make new instances to break free from the corporate social media landscape, but to maybe become the next Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey.
It’s not about a statement or philosophy, it’s just to copy what worked previously without understanding why people want a federated, algorithm free system. It’s “Well if they can start a system that made them rich in 2005, maybe I can in 20XX.”
lemmy.world wants to be the default instance. Major players are wanting to boycott lemmy.ml and are actively cheering that it’s hurting the development team. They don’t even know what the service they use does or works. They just like the idea of hurting the development because 4 people were mean to them once.
They also seem to think that users from one instance going to another is bragading, except when they do it then they are just using the software as intended… and so there is no way to interact with them. Heck I have been told I am bregading a post… that is on the .ml instance
Dess had his mouth running further than him, saying stupid shit, but I can downplay that and keep donating to him for the future of Lemmy as a whole. The Lemmigrad donation stream may be his own choice, but if he does that, we therefore can ask for a total detalisation of his income and spendings. We deserve to know, if he does that from his own paycheck himself, or if our donations directly support this one stalinist resource.
This is excellent timing. I just got an email last night that my auto subscribed donation to our instance was canceled and I don’t know why. I went to just reschedule it and they wanted my cc info but I was waaaay too drunk and in the middle of Pathfinder to go find my card.
Appreciate the reminder. I’ll fix that now.
I dont like that they imply lemmy would die without them like mbin and piefed dont exist? And they are running off activityhub, not like the core is lemmy? Correct me if im wrong, but if they stopped developing wed prob have a short period before apps switched to supporting mbin/piefed or others popped up? Guess the hard parts migrating all existing communites/instances.
It takes a lot of time and effort to bring a platform to maturity. If you aren’t a developer then it’s hard to grasp that. Lemmy has had years to get where it is.
Yeah I thought about it more, but its hard to imagine this platform would just dissapear now that it has so many users and everyone has access to the current codebase, maybe a rough period but wouldn’t app devs like mlem, vyger, etc. take some time and shift to supporting piefed/mbin and then eventually itd be back to normal, not saying there wouldn’t be a rough period.
I think I misunderstood from the start, not like they could take lemmy away in its current form lol, just stop updating themselves, so wes prob have issues when the userbase increases or something.
Who gives a single shit about either of those. We’re on Lemmy, not on mbin, piefed etc. because they are a bit ass right now.
Im only not on them because lack of an iphone app
Dessalines can eat shit. Separate him and ml from receiving the donations and ill donate again. He is fucking VILE
If they weren’t fascist sympathizers then I would feel a lot better about supporting them.
If saving lemmy means propping up .ml and their bigoted and fascist beleifs then, I’d rather see that baby and bathwater thrown out together
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Fuck Dessalines, fuck Lemmy as a software
I don’t have any money though
Lol why are you here then
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