This reminds me of that terrific quote from “The Internet’s Own Boy”: “Aaron [Swartz] thought he could change the world just by explaining the world very clearly to people.”
What he possibly didn’t understand was that the people in power are, indeed, perfectly able to understand the facts, but they can and will simply refuse to do so. Or, as Karl Deutsch once put it so succinctly, and I’m paraphrasing here: “Power means not having to listen.”Does anybody have that pic of the Twitter thread that goes like this:
People will change their minds if presented with facts
Research has shown showing people facts opposing their views would actually strengthen those views
I don’t care. I still believe people will change their minds if presented with facts
This is why the really good shucksters will try to confuse you and lead you to the thing they want you to believe by making you think it was your own idea. The 101 version of that is commentators “just asking questions” about an obviously false thing.
That’s what inception is, not nested dreaming
yea scroll down ;)
Wasn’t there an actual screenshot of the conversation, though?
So, I have depression, I start getting depressed again after stopping medications.
Then my mother was like “Must be the evil spirits” and “You don’t need medicine, you need an amulet to stop the evil spirits”
🤦♂️
No amount of scientific evidence can fix generations of stupidity and possibly lead poisoning…
This is why the world is so fucked.
Sure, let me have my mental illness back, thank you.
(🥲+➰️=💀)
You should stay on your meds. If they’re not working, talk to a doctor about alternatives.
You also need to get away from your mother or family generally, curing depression often involves a whole life overhaul, and changing your environment.
You have to let go of the animosity and frustration you feel with your uneducated mother/parents using whatever swamp-voodoo witchcraft they were taught and never learned better. You will literally burn yourself and become as bad as them if you allow this to be a “force” in your life. So either learn to exist within their ignorant sphere and not let them in on your life and plans and feelings as you work on yourself and make outside friends and connections, or leave entirely.
We all have only two choices in life about anything. We can change our situation or change how we feel about it. Anything else is just validating our own unhappiness, and you don’t have a lot of time to play that game.
If they’re not working, talk to a doctor about alternatives.
Or get an amulet to stop the evil spirits!
Sounds like it runs in the family
Is there a gene somewhere that just add so much chaos? My older brother is a bigoted piece of shit. Like this just cannot be a coincidence.
Its either something genetic, or maybe lead poisoning.
I’m honestly starting to doubt if this is even real. Like maybe I’m on some twisted Truman Show or something and everything is part of a script. But then, this exact belief could another sign of “mental illness”, assuming if this reality is real. I dont fucking know anymore. Lemmy could be all bots. 🤔
It’s never really one thing. Always a myriad of variables that make people what they are.
But I will say, depression is not a disease in and of itself. It is a symptom of a larger problem. Till you can figure out what that problem is in you, you will forever be on SSRIs and tricyclics till the end of your days.
Yeah, I think that mental illness is called hope.
Nah, it’s the dumb bias that smart people have, assuming their intelligence is viewed as more valuable than someone else’s feelings.
The hard black pill that thinking people have to swallow eventually is the realization that the world broadly doesn’t care that you know more than them, because people exist in their current, present feelings and rarely think outside of that space. It can’t be helped, changed or improved. We have the same exact brains that our ancestors surviving on glaciers had, and it has the same survival tools built in. Just because our brain can do neat tricks like formulate language to make complex ideas into abstractions, doesn’t mean that’s natural for anyone, nor should be expected.
Sadly, we have no real choice but to try to build a better world for stupid people, because that’s most of us. And yah, it will always be a thankless, misunderstood job that involves as much trickery and misdirection to accomplish as any parent learning to do housework around small children.
It’s more important to aim for that yourself. It’s more beneficial in the long run.
Wow, I was wrong I thought people changed their minds based on evidence. But based on this evidence, I don’t believe people change their minds based on evidence.
“I was driving safely! These cars were all over the road! I had to swerve numerous times to avoid them!!”
😭 I feel like I’ve had this argument shot for shot. The Internet poetry of it all is astounding.
As I grew up, I was taught to be factual, accurate, and helpful
All of that has made my life much harder
Teach your kids to lie, teach them that people want to take adavantage of them, and teach them how not to get caught up in that.
People aren’t convinced with facts, they are convinced with resonating emotional appeals.
Teach your kids so they don’t get crippled by the disadvantage of pathological honesty
Simplified version:
Teach your kids emotional intelligence. Everything follows from there.
If you don’t know emotional intelligence… well shit, you need to go out more, socialize, live a little.
This ^
Facts don’t care about your feelings, but your feeling really care about facts.
In other words, people respond to good stories that they identify with, not boring lists of facts or salient logic.
They’re eating the dogs… they’re eating the cats… they’re eating the pets… of the people that live there.
The vast majority of people don’t base their positions on logic or data, but on vibes.
Then what builds those vibes?
Mostly it’s our brain’s innate and hard-wired survival system which is that it invents stories to explain feelings.
This worked great 40,000 years ago when we were hiding from wolves and lions and cave bears and shit, it allowed us to connect the huge cave-bear footprint to the idea that there may be a cave-bear in the area.
In our modern, complex world that lacks cave bears almost entirely, this response system has just been coopted as a marketing and advertising tool. As well as for political propaganda.
People have a misconception about the brain, like it’s a logical, reasoning tool and it will make “sense” of the world. Not even close, it’s entirely a story-telling machine.
This is also why depression can be lethal so easily, a disease that makes you feel bad invites your brain to invent stories to explain and treat the problem, and those stories are often disconnected from reality. Learning to identify when you feel an emotion or feeling that starts your brain ruminating is one of the first tricks to both feeling a little better and staying ahead of outside influences.
Tribal concensus
I get the whole memeness of it all, but in reality, when you boil it down, no one could ever get all the data and present accurate facts. There are too many variables in life.
The guy who wrote that in the end is no better than who he tries to argue with (for the reason above).
As a species we really need to take a step back. Or else the stupid will win and both sides will die thinking they are right.
in reality, when you boil it down, no one could ever get all the data and present accurate facts
If someone says the Earth is round, are we seriously concerned that enough data has not been collected to consider this an accurate fact?
It is, in fact approximately round - it’s more precisely an oblate spheroid.
I’d say go as accurate as is relevant to the current situation.
I debated whether or not to call it an oblate spheroid like a huge nerd or just use the “earth is round” shorthand that most people are familiar with. While not perfectly round, I think most people would agree an oblate spheroid is a round shape in the general sense.
That was actually what I was getting at - there are too many variables in life. Only go as correct as you need to in the moment, and be understanding when others aren’t precisely correct either.
(which I think is what you were getting at, too?)
And? So what? We are talking about things of consequences. Saying the sky is blue and arguing over it that you can’t know that for sure is beyond asinine.
I’d say if you’re arguing over basic objective, a priori truths, you’ve already lost the plot.
I was thinking more of actual, real arguments that lead to real consequences. Claiming I can’t ever prove to you that this case in front of me is green because what even is green is just… dumb.
And? So what? We are talking about things of consequences.
I disagreed with your statement that “no one could ever get all the data and present accurate facts” and sought to use a ubiquitously understood example that is somehow divisive (see: flat-earthers) despite science that’s been well understood for hundreds of years making it obviously factual.
I’d say if you’re arguing over basic objective, a priori truths, you’ve already lost the plot.
I disagree. I would argue it is “of consequence” if someone is unable to look at the available data and come to the conclusion that the planet we’re standing on is round. Especially if that person is in a position of power or influence over others, because their capacity to make rational conclusions from available information is profoundly corrupted. e.g.: They shouldn’t be a science teacher at a school because they don’t understand even basic scientific principles that are universally understood.
Claiming I can’t ever prove to you that this case in front of me is green because what even is green is just… dumb.
Good thing I didn’t say that, then!
Pareto principle, 80% of the effect is determined by 20% of the variables. To get “all of the data” on an open ended question would be fruitless, but you can be reasonably sure of a theory the more evidence corroborates it. Nothing can ever truly be known in a Platonic sense, but the basis of science is in "most likely"s.
Same thing here. Now you have some “principle” to back you up claiming you can get “ enough”.
Like ok. So when they scan you for that rare space disease that causes people to literally blow up, you’d be fine with them ending the scan at 90% right? Right?
There is no data that isn’t valuable and can sway the ultimate conclusion. None. Only humans have the audacity to think they can cherry pick which lol.
Bro. Take a hard look at yourself.
I don’t think, my family made clear they hate me because I used to do it a lot when I was young
This is the type of person who won’t change their mind when presented with the appropriate argument with the right facts and data
for neurotypical people, perhaps. many of us on the spectrum are fully capable of changing our minds when presented with logical arguments, facts, and data. hence our frustration when we can’t do the same with others.
“No NT has ever changed their mind with this method, but maybe this time…” Who’s not learning here?
Does xxclusionary mean terf?
Hegel in username
Bud you’ve got far more mental illness than “being right” syndrome.
What’s the significance of “hegel” please? I’ve not encountered it before
Hegel was a philosopher. Philosophise This! Is a great podcast that’s easily digestible on the subject : https://overcast.fm/+BFNmczKRSA
Thanks so much, I’ve popped it in my queue.
