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Smart.
Smart smart smart.
ITT: A demonstration of the precise behavior OP is trying to warn against.
yeah. There’s a difference between (for example) a transphobe screaming at you, and someone who doesn’t fully understand all the terms but supports you being yourself. People in the comments are thinking it’s more of the former than the ladder.
Perfection is the enemy of progress
I keep hearing people say this meaning “We need to let Republicans kill trans people”. It seems to be a thought terminating cliche to pull out against anyone further left than the speaker.
As a trans person, that absolutely isn’t how I or other leftists in the spaces I’m in use this phrase. It means to avoid letting disagreement over method or end goal distract from a common cause. Just because a candidate doesn’t run for my specific brand of leftism doesn’t mean I won’t support them over a neoliberal opponent.
More fiber? What kind of movements are we talking about?
This for everytime some one suggests an idea. It’s not your job to snipe it because it’s too lofty an idea. If it’s a good idea, help hold it up.
And little victories. Healing by ten thousand stitches.
power doesn’t care about feelings
Does this mean that power has to be handled with care because it threatens feelings
or
does it mean that it’s ok to ignore feelings when it is possible to increase power?
WhY Do YoU SuPpOrT GeNoCiDe?
It’s an unfortunate but necessary genocide
Edit: I don’t support it!! But at this point it’s pretty clear it’s necessary, no? As liberals we need to be honest with ourselves at least.
This comment was reported. It does not violate our rules. Downvotes are appropriate here, convincing arguments even more so. Carry on.
i guess you need to spell out for me exactly how wiping out an entire culture of innocent human beings in cold blood is “necessary”
idk if you’re just trolling for attention but saying shit like that and calling it “unfortunate”… dude wtf
I’ll bite. What do we as liberals get out of this genocide? Are you gonna say our stock in Lockheed will go up? Because not all of us liberals have stock in Lockheed.
Well the democrats were very clearly pro genocide so idk why you would think it’s not part of the liberal platform??? Don’t the democrats represent us?
For this among a dozen other excellent reason, including and especially being generally incompetent at achieving their stated goals, Democrats do not represent me.
Everyone see what this person is doing? Thats the point of the original post.
Idgi, if that’s the case then why is one of the top comments an unprompted criticism of antigenocide protesters? That’s not divisive?
I’m trying to figure out whether it’s an LLM or not. I’m always interested to see how far they’ve advanced.
I tried this trick on Substack once a the account was deleted soon after. I’ll test it out here
We all can learn a little, from a little machine learning. In this essay I will…
Like the Muslim voters in Michigan that voted for Trump because they didn’t like Harris’ support of Israel and then immediately had ICE breathing down their necks
This is true, but it’s a good reminder that most people don’t act like this meme. We should remember that minorities don’t owe us their vote, and we should stand up for them
As a transwoman I’m suddenly used to abuse from false allies who see me as an “Guaranteed Vote”
They’re not wrong, but only because it’s a two-party system and a true enemy is worse than a false friend.
Yes, this is the attitude they are referring to.
Right? Like, if someone’s promising Free Grog and Good Times, they’re probably LeChuck in disguise.
Yes, I made an Escape From Monkey Island reference.
First time I played that game, I felt stupid for not realizing the guy named “Charles L. Charles” with the same voice actor as LeChuck, was in fact, LeChuck.
I have no idea what you are talking about, but I’m glad that you are here and having a good time.
Wow! This is the second best Monkey Island reference I’ve ever seen!
Maaaan now i got spoilered for a game that came out many many many years ago! Thaaanks!!! Angry emoji, angry emoji
Especially since the joke behind the Charles L Charles character is how easy it’s supposed to be to see the twist coming, and my autistic ass just took the character at face value.
Tbh i might have been the same, my fellow 'tism friend.
Exactly. If you don’t want to be deported, you’re going to have to be okay with genociding some folks.
Or they could have voted for Harris and not had to deal with mass deportations and then tried to stop the genocidal acts. Instead they voted to continue the genocidal acts AND get deported. If the problem persists either way, why vote to fuck yourself twice?
Also, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Never forget that even though we knew that Stalin was a vicious mass murderer of his own people, we allied with him to defeat Hitler, and it is highly unlikely that we could have done it without out them, or at least it would have taken us far longer, and cost many more lives.
We turned on each other the moment the war was over, but at least we could agree to put aside our differences for the time being.
It is likely that when it comes time to finally put down the rabid dog named MAGA once and for all, it is going to require allying with the Traditional GOP. I despise them with everything I have, and will want accountability when this is over, but if they are willing to assist us in purging MAGA from society, we are going to have to hold our noses and accept their help.
It is likely that when it comes time to finally put down the rabid dog named MAGA once and for all, it is going to require allying with the Traditional GOP.
Kamala tried that, it lead to Leftists not voting for Kamala Harris because they no longer saw a difference between her and Trump, and Rightists didn’t vote for Kamala Harris because even the “Never-Trumper” faction of the party gets in line behind whoever the GOP tells them to. Because Republicans have something Democrats will never have, unquestionable brand loyalty.
MAGA will be not be defeated by cooperating with Conservatives who fear that they “Must defeat Trump to save the party”, this is because Conservatives do not have an ideology, they have a tribe, and their tribe must always win or their Gods will hold them accountable.
If Conservatives turn against MAGA, it will be because they’ve been directly targeted by MAGA and are looking for a way out, and by the time that happens it’ll already be too late. “No one left to speak for me” as the poem goes.
That said, the Right Wing portion of the Supreme Court is turning against Trump for this exact reason, they realize that if they don’t he will just get rid of the Supreme Court and rule directly.
If “The TRUE Republicans” wanted to work with us to destroy Trumpism, I’d gladly accept their help, but they will NEVER work against the tribe.
Personally, I think Free America and the Allies would be teaming up with the Mexican Cartels. If anyone can terrorize the Trump Regime, it would be them. IMO, it wouldn’t be surprising if Mexico and the Allies promise to give away Texas to the Cartels as a spoil of war.
teaming with what might as well be classified as terrorists, and literal drug trafficking cartels is kind of insane not gonna lie.
Agreed. Unfortunately, we live in a world where Project 2025 is being supported by the 1%.
yeah, there is also that.
There is no substantive difference between “MAGA” and the traditional GOP.
LMAO the “traditional GOP” was killed by MAGA.
More like MAGA is the traditional GOP dropping the mask
Naah, I like my version better. More accurate.
Nah, your version implies that there was ever a traditional GOP that was meaningfully different from MAGA
No, my version is simply the correct one.
Then again, you sound like a tankie so you’d probably favor a Stalin-esque communist-style rule where the government disappears people on a whim like they had in the Soviet Union.
With that in mind, I’m surprised you don’t agree with Trump’s policy of sending dissidents to El Salvadorian gulags. Tankies love making dissidents disappear, after all.
Liberals not descend into lazy insults and strawmen challenge (impossible).
Good to know the definition of tankie has continued to expand that it now includes “people to the left of George Bush”
That sounds like something an enemy would say, right before they disagree with my objectively correct opinion about some minor thing and reveal their true nature.
I feel personally attacked by your vague statement and therefore see you as an enemy for life
the importance of that relatively minor thing also matters though, we can’t just purity test everybody for everything, even if it’s objectively correct, not all of it matters.
I would rather lose all my rights than stand beside ten thousand men who think neopronouns are cringe.
It would be impossible to achieve real change without your rigidity. Thank you.
Thank you more, for recognizing that sacrificing principles is bad and unnecessary, and victory is optional.
I hope we can also agree that anyone who unironically watches South Park are problematic and must be actively shunned if discovered.
And atheists who won’t suspend their theophobia for Islam are even worse.
I just felt like those groups needed to be mentioned for no particular reason.
true i hate winning, i hope we keep losing so we can keep up the facade of pretending to be good instead of actually doing something to solve the problem, because we would probably fuck up.
I personally deeply desire to be a noble loser and a perfect victim.
To die ethically unassailable, with no questionable acquaintances and no discord with progressive consensus, that is the goal we should all strive for.
Our flesh may be weak and vulnerable, but at least my spirit is secularily sainty, perfect, untarnished by compromise and realpolitik.
I. Am. Unproblematic.
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Whoever coined the phrase “it’s not my job to educate you” is top of my rogues gallery. If you want democracy to succeed, it is literally your job to educate everyone you can about the things you are passionate about and the changes you wish to see. I get where it came from, I understand the feeling, but it’s the worst possible phrase in the context of trying to make a political change.
I feel like a lot of progressive vocabulary words get used outside the contexts where they apply.
“It’s not my job to educate you” is a fair and valid thing to say when someone demands you defend the validity of your identity while you’re just trying to live your life. It’s unreasonable to expect every trans person to explain the history and complexity of gender to every chud who gives them shit.
It is, however, the opposite of activism and super unhelpful for an activist to say while ostensibly trying to build a movement.
Similarly, “mansplaining” is not a blanket term for any man explaining anything, listening to a friend vent is not “emotional labor”, and participating in cultures other than the one you grew up in is not “cultural appropriation”. All real terms that point at real problems, all sometimes used outside the contexts in which they are helpful.
Gaslighting is another often misused term. It’s not just a blanket term for lying, it is a specific type of lie.
And the thing to remember most is that the side we need to defeat doesn’t care about any of these terms.
If you instead choose to level these “academic” arguments at allies because they’re more likely to address your concerns and engage like a human being, you are making a mistake. A human mistake, but a huge mistake nonetheless.
It’s so easy when you’re charged up emotionally and scared and also prepared to exercise your knowledge and express your feelings, you might not know what to do with all that energy other than try to rip apart someone adjacent to you because it’s easier than feeling like you’re beating your head against a wall arguing with the actual mindless blocks of concrete who make up the conservative right.
Sure, I personally don’t use “academic” terms against other people. It does make the words lose meaning, which is why I use context and followup questions to really understand if the distinction is important.
I think it’s ok to bemoan the semantic drift of useful terms, away from the people trying to simply communicate with me. (No point in chastising.)
I’m not sure where you are getting where I am “ripping apart someone adjacent to me.”
In this instance, like most comments here, my comments are directed generally to readers, exactly like yours was. You’re obviously not attacking anyone and I didn’t suggest you were, which is why I started my comment with “and.”
Thanks for the clarification! Sorry, I misunderstood.
“It’s not my job to educate you” led to Prager University
If you don’t, someone else will.
It really didn’t. Maybe 10 people said it because they were being harassed by concern trolls, while the rest of us continued to engage in conversation with people who seemed like they might genuinely be confused.
Like literally just do a web search for your question and you will be on better footing when you ask it.
Like I felt offended the first time I heard “my culture is not a costume” but I actually did some reading / thinking before I started bothering people with questions like what??? or even banditos?? or what about mummies?
Yeah I mean I can understand not everyone wants to be an educator, especially of more ignorant people but when people say this I do wonder why they are even talking. I usually speak to people because I am interested in learning from them or because they’re interested in learning from me. This is the purpose of human communication. If you aren’t interested then the obvious solution is to stay silent.
When out distributing political flyers people will often come up to me pretending to want a conversation and learn something about my/our points, but just talk over me all the time. Their purpose is not to listen, or to learn, or to question, but just to feel like they matter.
Had a guy recently tell me about how he is a mechanic and that he did his own study where he found out that combustion engines do not, in fact, let out any CO2. He started it all with “give me 3 reasons to vote for you” to put me on the spot, then immediately was like “ok, I have 3 not to do it.”
There is no conversation with people like that, I’ve tried it often. Now I just wish them a nice day and go away as it’s not my job to waste time trying go educate them talking against an idiot wall.
I can understand not everyone wants to be an educator, especially of more ignorant people but when people say this I do wonder why they are even talking.
Exactly. If you’re not willing to try and educate someone you disagree with, insulting them is no substitute (in fact it’s pretty much the worst course of action re the presumed desired result), just keep quiet, or alternatively go talk of others who already agree with you so you can stroke each other’s egos, lol.
I first started seeing this on reddit (who knows where it actually came from though) which I believe schools its users to want to say SOMETHING, ANYTHING for attention and engagement. I agreed with or rather understood its meaning at one point but this phrase along with has “let me Google that for you” has fostered an abysmal internet culture. I think a much more servicable and sympathetic version of what this phrase was once trying to say, when said in good faith, should be “its not my responsibility to engage with this post right now”, which isn’t spoken aloud but is applicable to everyone online, and which I find myself thinking more and more when a comment makes me groan. The problem is how driven we all are to say SOMETHING, ANYTHING for attention amd engagement. I think it was a valuable realization at the time that felt so good to fire off uncritically on Twitter that people really hurt themselves, others, and the internet’s culture when they did.
let me Google that for you
has a place. there are people out there making absolutely 0 effort & wasting everyone’s time. there are pointless posts of questions that literally could have been googled to get a quicker, comprehensive answer. enabling them to continue that way isn’t helping them or anyone.
people got to at least be willing to put in basic effort or it’s worthless.
You need to educate the right people at the right times, more than anything. I swear both this original message and most of the replies to it, like this one, speak of wild levels of inexperience in how to socialize and make people unite with you.
If you can choose between spending your energy addressing the stupid, ill-informed ideas posted by liberal Americans on Facebook or Reddit and withstanding a little public trolling, or spending your energy “educating” a vocal, prominent leftist who makes content about something they’re doing wrong or some word they’re misusing or some marginalized group they might be offending, can you guess what’s going to help the cause more?
(The really sad part here is that some people are reading this trying to weigh both options.)
It’s not exactly the sentiment I have a problem with. There are definitely people who aren’t worth engaging with and there’s a time to walk away, as someone else in this thread pointed out they do. Responding in a kind of snarky, condescending tone rather than just walking away does not help you.
Think about an online thread where this happens: Someone is making an argument, and a troll appears. They engage for a bit, but realize they aren’t going to make any progress. Walking away let’s the thread die, and people who stumble upon it in the future will likely recognize the troll for what they are and consider the argument. Responding with condescension instead makes the person appear to only be arguing for self-aggrandizement rather than to actually help or improve anything, and it can poison the argument they made before. It plays right into the troll’s hands.
Dear 50501 folks,
Every so often I check my messages at Facebook and noted there’s a big 50501 group there… any chance you could get that group to start educating their Facebook members that supporting Facebook means supporting the coup and fascism?
Just a thought, Wwe
I get what you’re saying, but if we sequester ourselves to niche spaces, how can we spread information? Isn’t it important to reach Facebook users?
What you do is underground railroad them out of Facebook.
Dear Captain My Captain,
Here is a link to a document I’m working on that hopes to do just that. Please let me know what you think:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10KqzL0M2QzUTCdTFzcA1sRkfbNdCoaL7Xn4n4ilpwi8/edit?usp=drivesdk
And it’s not just the Cap’n I hope to get comments from. Please dive in.
Using Facebook to attract disgruntled hostiles who are potentially ripe for recruitment, or those who are politically agnostic and getting angry at what is happening to them, and poisoning one of their primary propganda mouthpieces, are all important missions.
Breaking through to them is something I have tried to do for years. I’ve stumbled up on this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10KqzL0M2QzUTCdTFzcA1sRkfbNdCoaL7Xn4n4ilpwi8/edit?usp=drivesdk
Comments if you have them.
How about don’t ask the opposition to host it and instantly doxx every person who touches that link? Just a thought. No fucking clue what is actually on the other side of that blue text and I’m not going to check
You’re literally just making a list for them
Slow down. We are on the same side.
My thought here is that corporate owned social media needs to be destroyed and the best way to do that is to make it irrelevant — the way folks already in the Fediverse find it.
The way to make it irrelevant is to make it a ghost town.
Dreaming big, I wrote something for… Facebook idiots that might… just might… be persuaded to try something new. It’s just a doc. I can paste in the text? I guess I’m not tracking what you are concerned about?
I’m so new to the Fediverse myself, I don’t know about the closest thing there is to google docs? Educate me. I’ll pop the doc on that and then delete this link.
The coup? Who is overthrowing what exactly? I seriously just dont understand these things. I can’t imagine it’s very legit if there hasn’t been a call to arms. That’s why we bear arms, right? For perhaps an attempted coup.
Please read this:
This!!
I see people shaming others for using Proton etc. It’s not perfect sure, but it’s a step in the right direction away from google.
Any step in the right direction should be praised.
Leftist broadly have gotten used to attacking their own side because they’re not the angry, mindless orcs that the right nurtures, and thus it’s simply easier to police your own side and win arguments against other people with minds than try to butt heads against orcs who don’t care and have no interest in thoughtful conversation.
It feels like action, it feels like some kind of accomplishment that you got some progressive content creator railroaded off the internet because they had a dumb take on israel once or used the R slur at some point.
It feels like action, it feels like some kind of accomplishment that you got some progressive content creator railroaded off the internet because they had a dumb take on israel once or used the R slur at some point.
that’s great, but does it actually accomplish anything? That’s what really matters, it doesn’t matter if you run some weirdo out of town because he moderately disagrees with you, if he just goes to the next town over, where more people are waiting for him…
Well sure, but that does pretty much rehash the comment you responded to.
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Huh!? I dont pay attention to US news and i am already out of the loop!? Comon maaaan!
However, you have to be careful that your movement doesn’t get infiltrated, because that will hurt your movement. You have to be careful who you are walking with, and what their end goals are.
Don’t protest for a better health care system with people that are antiscientific. Don’t protest for a free Palestine together with antisemitic people. Do not let them blur your message.
One thing I’ve been grappling with is I would completely support a violent overthrow of the Trump admin, as I don’t consider him legitimate because of the insurrection clause, but I would never ever even discuss the subject with a bunch of tankies or anarchists because they’re just supporting destruction of our protected rights all the same as the enemy.
Wish we wouldnt use AI
yeah the identical styles get old real fast
Its also the weapon of the enemy.
“Hey look, it’s Steve! …oh wait.”
Perfection is the enemy of progress. Way to derail <3
Treating criticism like an attack is the enemy of progress, and ironically more perfectionist than being able to acknowledge flaws in your messaging too.
This is like talking about awareness and then driving away in a Tesla. The people who are feasting upon our institutions made AI. The same people we are protesting that infested this regime.
It was a critique, not a tear down.
Yeah, this is silly. They literally just expressed that they wished AI wasn’t used.
And look how much it has derailed the conversation.
There are always the snobs that prefer nobody else be doing shit either so they can feel even more superior.
Where’s AI? Is the whole image AI or just the art?
The whole image.
You’ve improved my AI detection skills, thanks.
But you seem to be ignoring the message.
Perfection is the enemy of progress. Organize, don’t just argue
and
Imperfect allies are not enemies.
I’m not. The message is good. But its spouted from atop the corrupted bloom of our stolen labor.
If you know the post is AI and you don’t delete the post, that is tacit endorsement of using AI as a propaganda tool. You seem unbothered by that.
I do ignore the message if the medium is artificial. I won’t bother to read the image’s text or attempt to process the intent if I know the delivery is not genuine. I’m not going to waste my time or sully my brain by valuing and evaluating something posing as human expression.
You want me on your team? Don’t send a robo singing telegram as a recruiting tool. Convey your message like we’re humans instead of speaking through a fundamentally false impersonator. I don’t ask you to be a perfect human — I ask that you and your messages are genuine if you want me to listen. Trickery isn’t used to gain allies; it’s used to exploit the unwitting.
That good ol’ purity spiral.
A message isn’t a genuine message, because the choice of instrument to prepare it is disliked. Even if the text is the same, it’s the product of a “false impersonator” & “trickery”.
Genetic fallacy & non sequitur.
Edit: specifically, style over substance.
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False equivalency
Definition doesn’t fit.
fallacy fallacy.
Here neither: merely pointing out your argument is invalid (which it is), is not an argument that your conclusion is false, which I simply didn’t bother to claim.
Would bothering to claim & argue it’s false (reusing your words) “waste my time” & “sully” my attention with an invalid argument? Reusing your language even more
You know the comment is invalid and you don’t delete it, that is tacit endorsement of fallacies. You seem unbothered by that.
I do ignore the message if it is irrational. I won’t weigh your ideas further than necessary if I know the reasoning is poor. I’m not going to waste my time or sully my brain by valuing and evaluating something posing as good reasoning that isn’t.
You want me on your team? Don’t disrespect my attention with your poorly reasoned demands. Convey your message like we understand logic instead of abusing our attention with a pretense of a well-thought argument. I don’t ask you to be a perfect human — I ask that you and your messages respect logic if you want me to listen. Flawed reasoning isn’t used to gain allies; it’s used to mislead & exploit the unwitting.
While I don’t completely agree with that argument, either (especially the first paragraph), insisting on reasoning/substance seems way more compelling than that original argument (rejecting a message over superficial considerations). You absolutely can, but reasons that it’s right or logical are lacking or conflicted.
Rejecting a message is worthy of consideration over style is something an irrational person does. It’s a classic fallacy.
False equivalency and fallacy fallacy.
The fallacy fallacy is thinking that just naming fallacies discredits an argument. Literally what you just did in your post.
Noted
Alright now get back to the drawing board, and don’t come back until you have a meme you made in Krita
a meme you made in Krita
Nah, didn’t you read?
Some royal majesties
ignore the message if the medium is artificial
and will not have their attention sullied with
something posing as human expression
Anything digital, electronic, or mechanical is artificial. They want “genuine” human expression, and the printing press is impersonal, mass-produced schlock.
Gotta go full quill & parchment on this, hand delivered.
It’s distasteful, but a useful weapon. We need ways to create content that is good enough and really fast to make. A grassroots movement doesn’t have the funds to pay marketing teams to do our work for us.
What did people do before AI? It wasn’t that long ago.
AI is being used every social media site the world over to hamper discourse, embroil people, to enrage people…
I don’t know of another way to combat it except with more AI. Maybe at some point people will completely get off of the internet with the thought “There’s no real people on the internet any more”.
You poison it and you dont use it. That’d how you fight AI. With tarpits and poison. They’re like Mentats.
That doesn’t work, based on the results we’ve seen so far. All attempts to poison AI have quickly been bypassed.
Is there any source to this claim?
Sure, a quick google search turned up this, published just four days ago:
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10962550
Or here’s a discussion on r*ddit about how Glaze is totally ineffective against poisoning image generation AIs. (Same principles apply to others like Nightshade)
https://www.reddit.com/r/aiwars/comments/12f9otc/so_the_whole_entire_glaze_ai_thing_does_it/
Basically every poisoning technique is by its very nature too specific to be useful for poisoning all the types of AI out there, or is too invasive and ruins the content for humans too, or is not strong enough and it gets lost in the cacaphony of data anyway.
Really it’s a clever idea in principle but in practice AI poisoning isn’t really a mathematically viable way to combat AI.
Ban AI where you can and talk about how bad it is when its relevant
They are never going to ban AI. It replaces too many workers. Hell, it’s smarter than half the people I know – even when it makes mistakes.
Who is “they”?
But i know AI wont be banned in most countries ever. The point is to try to make people avoid AI or avoid things that use AI
You can’t avoid AI or things that use AI. We’ve been using these statistical models WELL before they became mainstream. And they mimic human authors well enough that it’s impossible in many cases.
Its impossible in some cases, but possible in others
If people are openly using AI, others will be encouraged to do that to
Is this critiquing to build or tear down?
Critique. This wouldnt have been hard to make in a presentable way without AI. I get it, I’m just saying now is the time to burn all bridges. Change is coming either way.
