Look, the only reason people start getting conservative, is when needs and wants start getting harder to acquire. Want to change that? then have affordable living make a come back. There’s a reason why a decade ago people were more liberal, because shit was more affordable.
I’ve lived in a small rural prairie riding all my life. It’s been not conservative one term in the last 40-50 years. The people who complain the most about Canada being broken are the ones who have owned their houses since the 90’s and worked the same jobs for pretty much as long and have the health care system all their long lives and starting to collect cpp even while continuing to work, as long as it doesn’t put them too much into the next tax bracket. They can’t really explain how Canada is broken for them, beyond talking points. They can’t really explain what they think Conservatives will do to fix the things they don’t really know are wrong. They just vote conservative because liberal bad. The fuck Carney signs came out the day after he was confirmed as Liberal party leader. There was no time to formulate a hate for him, it was immediately implemented mindlessly
This is correct, but I’d just like to add, it’s because conservatives always provide simple answers, to complex issues because they don’t actually care about fixing anything.
Housing too expensive? It’s the immigrants!
Food too expensive? It’s the liberal regulations!
Taxes too high? We’ll lower them!
Every issue, they provide a simple, yet absolute bullshit fix for, but it’s easy to understand and for a simple mind, simple solutions are the answer.
Liberals have failed to make progress on these issues because in part there’s corruption, ineptitude, but for the most part because the solutions required are complex and take a long time to fix. And no-one has the courage to say this shit is fucked and we need a fix that addresses all of the facets of the problem.
Sounds to me what you’re saying is “people start getting conservative when they don’t actually understand any economics at all”
How long have the Liberals been in power? And did they do anything about the current cost of living crisis? They’ve had every opportunity to fix this situation but they haven’t. There’s a reason why a Conservative win was predicted before trump went off his meds.
DO I think Conservatives would do better in power? Hell no, but they were at least saying “hey, we’ll fix this so you can live on your current wages again.”
The fact that they were American Republican Lite didn’t matter.
So because they’re willing to say anything to get elected they’re a better option? What have the conservatives actually done in the last 30 years to help working class Canadians? Are we supposed to suddenly trust them now that they realize they have to have actual policies instead of just ‘hate this one guy’? Are we meant to ignore decades of Polivere’s voting record?
The younger folks were, according to this post.
Yes, but the question is why. Is it based on logic based reasons or due to the misinformation campaign? Because they think the current Conservatives will actually do anything to make substantial changes to address these issues or because idiots like Rogan and Mcleary tell them to hate the other side? Is it because they’re not getting enough or just because someone else is getting something?
It’s not like anybody is going to start building thousands of $500000+ houses and selling them at cost to the middle class. The only thing the feds would do to address housing would be to build low cost housing again. I can imagine how that would go over with the crowd we’re talking about
I mean they did a fuck of a lot more than Harper!! Do you REMEMBER what life was like under Harper?? PP isn’t a clone of Trump. He’s a protégé of HARPER, a controlling, paranoid little facsimile. All this shit with oppressive narcissistic control of the press is exactly how Harper behaved.
There’s a reason why a Conservative win was predicted before trump went off his meds.
What
How long have the Liberals been in power? And did they do anything about the current cost of living crisis?
Man you are going off
Yes, people are shit ass at understanding economics. Neither liberalism nor conservatives are great at balancing budget. But conservatives sute as shit are a whole lot worse at it.
Yes, The Conservatives in polling were looking at a possible majority acording to then current polls. But once trump showed his ass and the Liberals didn’t back down, the Liberals polling numbers went way up. It probably also helped that Justin
was forceddecided to stand down as the Party leader.
Eh became conservative when my liberal government started banning a hobby I recently found relieved stress.
Airsoft right?
I can’t imagine voting for all the ills that conservatives bring over a hobby.
Ultimately, for me it was the stick that broke the camels back.
The problem is that something is missing and it’s being filled by angry reactionaries and right wing grifters who prey on the particular insecurities of young men, specifically insecurities around masculine values.
What’s missing is a foundational framework for understanding the male experience as distinct yet coequal to feminist theory. A framework that seeks to promote a balanced, respectful dialogue by articulating unique structures, values, and challenges faced by men, in order to offer a lens through which male identity, struggle, and transformation can be understood on their own terms, while upholding - acknowledging - the progress and insights of feminism.
These men feel like they don’t have purpose or identity. They need a framework, but unfortunately efforts to define and build such a framework are often hijacked by extremists that just hate women and minorities. Like we see now.
Do we really need to make the framework different for male and female humans? Why not use one for humans and teach tolerance to difference in general? I don’t think many of the issues we face will be solved if we keep two different frameworks.
Chinese culture has the concept of ‘eating bitterness’ and it is universal. It’s about being able to take the suffering, loss, pain, humiliation, and all the other bitter stuff that life can throw at you, enduring it, and building character, strength, and resilience out of it. It’s a virtue. It’s a universally admired trait.
North American culture is not great at eating bitterness. The culture here is more about eating sweet, or living the good life, and when people have to eat bitterness, especially those expecting to eat sweet, it is viewed as shameful and castigating rather than normal, and it easily turns a person towards grievance and a sense of injustice that makes them bitter inside instead of resilient and optimistic.
This is why I think men in North America, especially white men, have turned to characters like Jordan Peterson, or in worse cases, Andrew Tate. Jordan Peterson at least tries to help these men develop a sense of responsibility and strength that can be constructive and meaning- making. Guys like Tate, on the other hand, exploit their grievance to make them socially nihilistic. One is obviously much better than the other, but neither is a substitute for having a common social value place upon eating bitterness.
The “manosphere” gives aggrieved, frustrated, disappointed, and angry men stories to help them process their emotions, but they still rely upon self-centered and egotistical tropes like the hero’s journey or misogynistic worldviews. These don’t address the deeper and more universal reality that none of us (male or female) are heroes from Marvel movies, that deep, painfully-bitter experience is part of the common human journey, and that eating that bitterness with humility and without expectation of any award for being special, is a virtue that helps you develop character.
I’m not from NA and I don’t think that’s specific to NA, I saw this in people from Western Europe, Northern Africa and Japan. Also whatever positive aspect of traditional culture there may be, everything seems to get crushed by the social media bulldozer consumeing hours a day from childhood.
The framework that is built from the oppression of women, and the challenges that arise from that, does not represent the lived experiences, challenges, or values of men. All too often it diminishes these. To move forward in a spirit of mutual understanding requires a recognition of what matters to men; i.e., what provides purpose and value.
I feel that you may be misunderstanding me. This is exactly about tolerance and acceptance - including acceptance that men and women have different lived experiences that are founded on different fundamental principles of what is important and what provides purpose. Is it really so difficult to accept that men might find purpose or value that differs from women? I don’t believe there is harm in acknowledging that, and respecting a healthy understanding of that difference.
I don’t deny that the current experience of life is different because of gender/sex. So I am rather talking about the target, a society without sexism.
Is it really so difficult to accept that men might find purpose or value that differs from women?
Yes, I am indeed questioning this point. Is this difference in the essence of the gender or is it a social construct?
For me, it’s actually not hard to imagine that men and women could share the same distribution of purposes and values, if the environment in which they grew up supported it. The diversity would be based on the uniqueness of individuals with little to no influence from the gender.
I find it very oppressing to have the specific framework you mention associated to you because of your gender. What about transgender people or people who don’t associate with a traditional gender?
AFAB here and I agree 100% - the issue is that by elevating that which used to acceptably be oppressed, the primary oppressor feels that they have lost station and position as they see society as a ladder - if you aren’t at the top someone else is above you. That kind of thinking makes this even more difficult to solve.
AFAB?
AFAB = a female at birth AMAB = a male at birth
The More You Know
Agreed, masculists, especially the young ones, are mostly socially anxious and socially scared people who find shelter from their anxiety by oppressing another group. The solution is probably to work on this social anxiety from childhood.
How can right wing extremists hijack a “foundational framework” when you offer nothing. For them to hijack the conversation you would first have to offer substance that then is taken but you don’t offer anything. That is why they vote against you. You are for the betterment of one sex and that doesn’t include them. Why would they vote with you? If the situation were reversed you wouldn’t vote with them either.
Shitty parenting and the education system being eroded year by year. This is the generation that the billionaires wanted. Poor, stupid and complicit.
Yeah, make them idiots and then tell them they’re the most important idiots and shouldn’t feel less than. It’s a Republican politician’s wet dream to have a population of slobbering assholes who feel like they deserve more than everyone else and are being denied it
I must live in a bubble. Both of my (university age) kids and their friends are vocally offended by Trump and Musk, and they think Polierve is a bad joke.
My oldest games online with a few Americans and they are also very anyi-trump. (“They wouldn’t be my friends if they supported him”)
You are most likely living in a bubble. Cherish it, but don’t forget, that there are a lot of people that feel different from you.
I do have the same experience. My social circle is very much open, tolerant and absolutely hates what the GOP in America and right leaning/right wing parties in Europe are doing and proposing. I know almost no young people that support strong conservative or right leaning policy and talking points. I am however also in contact with a different group of people (through my countrys military/military reserve), that very much leans into those right talking points and favours more conservative policy.
If you can, engage with them and try to understand them and help them understand your point.
This gives me hope for the future
Social democracy let everyone down (by being neither social or democratic, thanks to politicians thinking about their rich friends) and now people are surprised that a generation started to believe that an authoritarian leader would be better.
How did social democracy let everyone down?
Are you kidding? All crown corporations are getting privatized, they’re intentionally destroying social services in order to justify giving more space to the private sector, they only built housing long enough to comfortably house boomers and X and then they gave up…
No it’s not social democracy at this point, it was still sold as being it way longer than it actually was though and that’s how people became sour to it. If you convince people that social democracy is them not being able to afford to live, they’ll get hooked to the first alternative they find.
The reason I asked is because I feel that you are blaming social democracy and I think you are painting with too broad a brush. Capital should serve the state, the people, not the other way around. Social democracy is in part about strong regulations on capital. We need to stand by that and support it. Throwing it away cedes power to capital.
I’m not blaming social democracy, I’m describing how people feel because they’ve kept being told that’s what they were getting even when they weren’t until they started to believe that social democracy was the problem to begin with.
We won’t get social democracy with the choices offered to us either so what then?
gestures broadly
Because right wing voters continued to exist to let it.
The manosphere is the symptom.
This. I would argue housing affordability is one of the main root causes.
And liberals won’t take action to slow immigration which is only a layer of the problem, but it cost them votes for sure.
All of vulture capitalism is the cause.
Capitalism in general, from observing for 40 years.
I haven’t seen that one, but I love FD.
Check out Sixteenth Minute of Fame, too. Jamie Loftus did a multi-part series on the Manosphere, and it’s excellent.
It’s serious but still funny, rich in historical detail but still personal, and she portrays it as patriarchy vs everyone (not men vs women) without turning that into a free pass for men.
You can tell she put a ton of extra care into these ones.
I’ll give it a watch, thank you! I’m not saying it’s not problematic and doesn’t amplify the crazy, btw. It most certainly does. The sickness is not creating a society that has time, money, and skill set necessary to well… properly socialize our population, as well as innoculate them against this mess. But in a sane world, most manosphere garbage would be banned as hate speech, probably.
100%, this video mostly goes into how fascism requires violent men to sustain it, and so violent men it will create through isolation and harmful propaganda. it’s basically positive feedback loop where as fascism gains more ground, it isolates us more, making it easier to make men feel lonely and like they’re failures, and that the system doesn’t work, but instead of trying to make the system work by embracing a new view, they instead move from violence to hyperviolence.
the video basically both agrees with you, and at the same time makes a compelling argument that all the people killing us right now are sad pathetic losers whose daddies never loved them, and they see no avenue to a better tomorrow so they do… this
the video basically both agrees with you, and at the same time makes a compelling argument that all the people killing us right now are sad pathetic losers whose daddies never loved them, and they see no avenue to a better tomorrow so they do… this
That’s basically why I’ve moved from a “f them , they get what they deserve” to trying to establish dialogue that offers a path to redemption/atonement. If the person demonstrates no good faith and continues to attack, boundaries must be set and enforced. When good faith is demonstrated, we try again. If they revert to abhorrent behavior, we set former and more extensive boundaries. If they are straight up belligerent/dangerous, we segregate and rehabilitate/re-educate humanely, and attempt reintegration. Capitalism is not the system for that. It’s time to try socialism.
Talked to a few of my friend’s kids. They all think Musk is a genius.
I see Andrew Tate victims in all of them.
Ugh, what a terrible future we have.
Well the kids are leaning right because of propaganda and mind control. Plain and simple. Instagram and Twitter actively push ragebait content designed to radicalise impressionable kids.
Gen x parents have dropped the ball so hard it’s not even funny.
So much alcoholism. And 2008 happening in their prime earning years caused several gen X’ers I know to never recover financially.
We bought a house in 2007, I’ve been stuck there ever since. It’s a freaking money pit, and not nearly big enough. Can’t afford to move though. Paying it off is my only hope for any kind of retirement.
I feel seen here LOL
No kidding!
These kids have got awful fucking parents
Where are their fucking parents? My generation bitches endlessly about boomers, then…raises another generation of them?
Nice.
Both working and burnt out by the rise in everything costing so much but wages being stagnant?
Does that make it okay to raise monsters?
If you can’t raise your kids how about don’t have any? This world is pointless and cruel by default anyways.
Edit: so, downvoters think it’s justified and not a negative character flaw to crank out broken people because…? I guess it’s inconvenient when executing lifescript.exe thoughtlessly with no regard for anyone but your selfish self.
There’s been no justifications, just excuses.
It takes a village to raise a child. The village abandoned them. This is on society as a whole.
A big part of solving a problem is understanding what leads up to it.
If it were just one family? Fine, ignore it, blame them.
If it’s a lot of them? Maybe, just maybe there is something going on in the bigger picture.
Good luck, it’s been one for as long as we’ve existed.
Meantime this doesn’t excuse the majority’s lacking ability to take personal responsibility for their choices made in the here and now.
Both JP and PP couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag and they’re waxing poetic about masculinity?
PP’s so masculine that when one of the racist supporters said he’d rape his wife, this powerhouse just pulled down his pants, bent over and took it.
Anything these twats says is absolute nonsense.
You who could fight, though?
Didn’t he also win that fight?
Yup. Decisively
I still don’t understand how they are doing it.
At no point in history could you go to the woman dealership and buy a woman. You could maybe pay for a little time with a woman, or buy a slave at a slave auction. You could negotiate with a woman’s father some exchange for his daughter. But that exchange usually had to have something of value, and it also meant you lived beyond the age of 30.
Like I get that younger people are dumb, and being a man, I can attest that men are particularly dumb, but how fucking whacked are these men thinking they will somehow benefit from this?
The strict dress code for women came about because debt collectors would show up to farms in the Fertile Crescent to demand payment on a loan, and decide to take their daughters as payment. (Drunkenly-remembered source: Graeber, “Debt: The First 5,000 Years.”)
This is accurate.
Source: I once bought a wife from a man in the Fertile Crescent in exchange for a shipment of low quality copper.
I’m just gonna say it
Humans have a weird system for propagating the species.
I vote for counter propaganda feeding them that right leaning people are all child predators or will become one. Make them demonized the same way they demonize the left.
A lot of comments in here have real “I’d beat my kids” vibes, and that’s kind of shocking and scary.
