We have yet another example of the conservatives having only short term gain and quick profits on their mind. Turner and the liberals were right when they said that we have been building this country east to west for a century plus, and that we should have continued doing so. And now we are seeing Turner’s predictions coming true, and a conservative sold us the fuck out and took the easy way Instead of nation building.
Read Sale of a Country by Shelley Ann Clarke
If you’re voting strategically ABC, make sure that the Liberals actually have the strongest contender in your riding based on the polls.
There are a lot of NDP / Conservative battleground ridings that the Liberals will never pick up.
Just gonna drop this here
This right here
I’m feeling conflicted this year. I’ve been an NDP voter since as long as I was old enough to vote. This year I’m leaning Liberal.
My riding is polling strong red so while it doesn’t make a statistical difference I want to show the NDP that I’m not confident in their leadership or partisanship. I love their policies but it’s time for Jagmeet and similar ineffective MPs to make way for stronger leaders.
There might be a ghost of a chance that the Liberals win in my riding so I’m going to go for them.
I voted for NDP. My province voted for Conservative, so we are getting Dougie Ford in ON, again. :/
That’s pretty much where I’m at as well. My riding is currently blue, and every piece of mass-mail propaganda I’ve gotten from the current MP has used a lot of words to say an awful lot of nothing.
I’ve generally voted NDP, but they need to make some leadership changes. I don’t believe that the current NDP leadership would be effective in handling the overgrown toddler running the show in the US, and PP would hand us to him on a silver platter. I don’t actively dislike Carney so far, so at least that’s something.
Yeah, the NDP kind of need to get crushed in this election so we can clear out the dead wood. We need a reborn and revitalized NDP to meet the current moment.
“I’m voting Liberal because the NDP have become too much like the Liberals”
This is why no one respects the left, you realize.
I absolutely disagree with that statement.
The Liberals are going to bring more of the same. What we need is a strong coalition with both the Liberals and NDP to push the Liberals to work for the little guy for once.
I’m tired of having a party that does nothing but work for corporations, who can’t think outside the box and do nothing for the working class.
An NDP minority would keep Singh and the other softly softly types in charge, and continue to offer weak, incremental improvements instead of real, meaningful change. We need a radical, socialist left that offers real solutions if we’re going to avert the rise of fascism here in Canada, and the NDP needs new faces and new ideas if they’re ever going to win people over again.
I agree with you there. The NDP needs to be more aggressive. I don’t know about radical though. You don’t want to scare people off either. I think it needs to be progressive. But, they definitely need a change in leadership.
I think being afraid of scaring people off got them where they are.
Voters were overwhelmingly willing to vote for Pollievre, a man everyone detests, simply because he was a fuck you to Ottawa and the status quo.
That ‘burn it down’ energy has been tamped down by the threats from the south, but sooner or later it will be back (or we’ll no longer be talking about Canadian elections), and when it does the NDP needs to be ready to point the molotovs at where the real blame is.
I attribute increased radicalization on both sides to the failed promise of electoral reform. By which I mean having FPTP is a main underlying cause, but rug-pulling the opportunity to change it really accelerated things by making the center intolerable.
This problem isn’t going away until we get electoral reform. LPC is what we need in this unique moment, but the fundamentals haven’t changed.
How has the liberals programs like childcare, the first home savings account, the middle class tax cut, the raising of taxes on the wealthiest, the school foods program, the deals struck with multiple auto makers to build evs and their batteries here in Canada, investments into critical mineral extraction, enhancing trade tie with Europe and South East Asia, and the Trans mountain pipeline, LNG projects bad for the working class again? ThE cARbOn tAx?
- The childcare program is something the NDP has been pushing for since 2015. And without them at the table, the Liberals would never have prioritized this issue.
- The FHSA doesn’t help much if people don’t earn enough money to put aside or can afford a home because they’re being priced out. I find this to be one of those “NOT outside the box” solutions that don’t bring anything of substance to the problem. It’s also greatly limited. It’s great for those who have money who want to save on income tax though. What we needed were stronger laws against foreign ownership, againt ownership of residential homes by companies and investors through REITs and ETFs and against AirBnB type services. And maybe limit the number of residential properties per person? Nearly 1/3rd of residential properties in Canada are owned by multiple property owners. Property barons basically. How did that even happen? What did the Liberals do against all of this during their 10 years in power? With what was happening in B.C. we saw what was going to happen and they did very little to stop if from spreading across Canada.
- The deal for EVs and batteries in Canada isn’t a great deal. We’re just subsidizing corporations. (again) And for what? For vehicles that people aren’t adopting as fast as any analyst had expected. And the battery manufacturing? Look at NorthVolt in Québec and how much of a shit show that is. BILLIONS invested in a company that’s near bankruptcy because, again, people aren’t buying EVs as fast as expected. Also the value of the materials to make batteries dropped significantly and put the company in a tough financial spot. And on top of all that, China has made so many EV batteries already that the market is practically saturated. If ever we were to open the gates to China, Northvolt would disappear. The trade barriers with China are the only thing keeping that company alive.
- Regarding the mineral extraction for EV batteries? See my previous point. Also we’re still subsidizing private companies to extract those minerals instead of nationalizing everything that’s in Canada’s soil. And what about the environmental impact of all this? Once again, we subsidize corporations while we pay for picking up the mess.
- Speaking of environment, how are the trans mountain pipeline and LNG projects good for the working class when these projects are environmental hazards which the working class always end up paying for when an environmental mess happens? How is that good for fighting against global warming, which is a pressing issue? Why aren’t we working towards getting rid of our dependence of these things? Why do you think the LNG pipeline project was cut off by Québec? It was a huge environmental risk on our bodies or water, which are a much more important resource than natural gas.
So yeah. Those are my arguments against what you mentioned.
Bruh you sound like you will never be fucking happy lol. You are arguing against the liberals for… Doing stuff the NDP agree with? Wtf is this? You sound like you basically just want the conservatives to win because I’m sorry but the NDP ain’t getting many seats this election and the closest thing to the NDP right now are the liberals. You want to whine and complain about shit that’s actually being DONE? Whine about what ifs and about how it’s not PERFECT? I’m sorry to burst your bubble baby but nothing is perfect. The enemy of good is perfect
What is your problem??? What the heck is wrong with you and that shitty attitude? You’re not convincing anyone by acting immature and throwing a tantrum at people online.
And how did you even get to the conclusion that I want the conservatives to win?
You are arguing against the liberals for… Doing stuff the NDP agree with?
No. Read my comment again. What I said is that the things the Liberals did that you mentioned like the child care program are things the the NDP came up with first and have been pushing through for ages. The liberals being a minority government had to make a coalition with the NDP and therefore the NDP pushed for these things to be implemented. These were the compromises that the Liberals had to make to get their votes in return for other bills. That’s the beauty of a minority government.
Hey just FYI when you type in alternating lowercase & capitals it makes it impossible for blind or sight-impaired people using screenreaders to understand you
I kind of agree, but there’s a substantial chance the NDP will insist on misinterpreting the results as meaning they should pull even farther to the relative center, even though it’s their base they are losing.
On the other hand, the NDP implosion in NB opened the window for a stronger Green party with no more splitting of left-leaning votes. That party now more effectively represents both environmental concerns and labor. So far, that’s seeming like a pretty harmonious pairing of interests, with a largely shared base.
I’m good with the NDP either shaping up or getting out of the way.
I kind of agree, but there’s a substantial chance the NDP will insist on misinterpreting the results as meaning they should pull even farther to the relative center
That’s why, if you want the NDP (or whatever party you are closest aligned with) to make better policy choices, you should become an active member of the party and get involved long before an election.
Look, I wish I could give you an ironclad guarantee of how things will shake out, but that ain’t how this shit works.
The NDP as they are now are incapable of rising to this moment. They need to be replaced by something that is. Maybe that works out, maybe it doesn’t. Playing it safe has gotten us fucking nowhere. I’d rather take the swing.
Yeah, I think I’ve already talked myself out of worrying where the NDP goes next anyway. I hate how things went with the federal Greens but at this point they’ve still got as much shot at representing the left as the NDP.
I’m smelling a theme in leftist parties, where good leaders seem disproportionately difficult to replace.
Yeah same boat here.
I’ll be strategically voting liberal this time because of the MAGA traitor PP. He would sell Canada in a heartbeat to Trump’s regime.
Once Milhouse is dealt with I will not be voting liberal ever again. Not that my vote matters really. My riding is 100% liberal.
I really don’t give a shit how unpopular Jagmeet is. I am a socialist. I don’t like the liberals. They’re centrists. I will vote for the centrist to keep fascism at bay.
Centrists are fascist enablers though. But I get how you feel.
Democracy is fascism enablement in general sadly.
If you’re in a battleground, like some of Alberta’s municipalities this year, make it count.
I guarantee that when the next election rolls around, you’ll once again be voting liberal to keep fascism at bay.
Just as the system intends. We need electoral reform as part of the solution out of this cycle. Our politics often mirror some of the USA (2 party system, right vs left, candidates spend most of their time bad mouthing each other, no follow through on election promises) , given their current state, we should be doing everything we can to distance ourselves and our systems from theirs.
Thank you for voting strategically. It would be great to see people wake the fuck up and see the NDP become the official opposition. The conservatives should be banished to the basement of parliament
I’m pretty much in the same boat but luckily my riding is a safe NDP vote so I don’t have to worry about being strategic.
I am obviously hoping for Carney this time around though. I’d vote for an (evil even) inanimate carbon rod over PP. Hopefully the NDP can choose a new leader and really take off next election
Honestly, living in Germany now, allowing private care to harvest market forces is not too bad of an idea and might be more effective at keeping the doctors in Canada.
You can enrol in private care once your income exceeds a certain threshold (but you still pay a certain amount for the public care). You can opt for, for example, a more premium tooth filling if you wish (And yes, dental care is included in Germany’s healthcare). This allows the doctors to charge more from the rich.
I’m sorry but the liberals are pretty clear that healthcare should be public…and free at use.
I agree liberals dont make tha same mistake as your american equivalents. Make sure your candidates running actually gives people reasons to vote for your candidate.
Dont think you can just goose step to the party line of no change for the working class. Dont try to deny and support a genocide. Dont think the other candidate sucking is sufficient for you to brow beat people to vote for your candidate.
If there’s a group asking for a change that you might not technically agree with but doesnt harm people do it anyways
It’s so obvious that Canada and the liberal party isn’t supportive of Israel doing what they’re doing… Wtf are you talking about?
Don’t be that left leaning douche bag that thinks that unless everything is done perfectly to a tee with what YOU want to see, that it isn’t worth voting for. The NDP has great ideas and we owe them for pushing the liberals to get dental care and pharma care done … But Jesus Christ the foreign interference is strong with you
Canada and the liberal party isn’t supportive of Israel doing what they’re doing… Wtf are you talking about?
Justin Trudeau: “I am a zionist” and also “Zionism isn’t a bad word.” then proceeds to send money and equipment to Israel.
Zionism is just the basic fact that the Jewish people deserve to have a state to live in. Zionism has been thrown around as a buzzword forever and it’s not wrong to say that Jews deserve to have a state to represent them. Now currently is what Israel doing ok? Fuck no. But you’re not gonna fucking sit in here and conflate this bullshit as if the liberals are responsible for Israel doing what it’s doing. They aren’t.
I know it’s because you feel very passionate about this issue, but you really need to change that attitude. We’re all fiends here.
Hey, I know i am definitely a fiend, but do you really think we all are?
lol yes being an asshole definitely is going to win you votes. lol you idiots never learn jesus.
imagine thinking that politicians should serve their constituents interests in order to ensure people are willing to vote for them is ‘foreign interference’. lolol
You’re talking about a foreign issue that is not Canada’s number one pressing issue at the moment. Conflating it with the liberals who have the best chance at defeating the conservatives who will sell out our country, to the USA, who is also currently aiding the genocide and horror happening in Gaza and Israel right now…
Like how well did it turn out for the NoT VoTinG KaMalA crowd because they thought she would be terrible for Palestine? Don’t be dumb.
I know. I know Americans who were like “I’m not voting for Kamala because of Genocide Joe in fact I won’t vote at all” and then Trunp 2.0 gets in. How’s that going for you Amerikkka???
They’re already in here steering the conversation completely in a different direction
You know we have more than 2 parties in Canada right? And that we have a Westminster parliamentary system, meaning we can have a minority government. Unlike in the U.S.
So we actually have the option to vote for a 3rd or even 4th party if we want and still end up with the conservatives not being in complete power. In fact, I believe the best outcome for Canada would be a minority Liberal government with the NDP as the opposition.
If we don’t vote Liberal, it’s not a total loss. So you can calm down. What happened in the U.S. won’t happen here.
I’m not conflating anything, I’m telling you to stop worrying about the candidate you dont like and demand your preferred candidate make a case on why they are worth putting the effort on showing up for to people who dont give a shit about politics. my examples were of what not to fucking do, and you immediately start doing a few of them. good job.
the US liberals (harris/biden/pelosi/schumer,etc) and those like them (you) think you can brow beat people into compliance by fear of conservatives and that doesnt work. all it does it cause people to tune you out and then ignore the election entirely.
Why are you trying to conflate Canadian Liberals and the Democrats? They aren’t remotely the same party, the systems of government don’t look anything alike and they aren’t in cahoots.
And the Canadian Conservatives are fronting a guy who has stated his support of American style “Right to Work” legislation and other Americanizing government initiatives who went into politics immediately from going to school for international affairs against a guy who has spent years as Governor of two National Central Banks and created a number of international contacts across the Commonwealth in the international financial sector that can be leveraged and yet Conservatives are trying to paint themselves as “better for the economy”. Pollievre has been utilizing anti gay anti queer dogwhistles in his rhetoric for the past ever as well. Fuck Right to Work bullshit and fuck anybody who wants to roll back civil protections. There’s not a lot of places in the world as safe as Canada for queer people to exist so it’s not like there’s much better places to escape once the fortress falls.
The CPC and UCP are pretty awful for sure. But as this thread demonstrates, conservatives do not have a monopoly on bad takes, divisive rhetoric, unnecessary hostility, and self-defeating attitudes.
And the parallels between Democrats and LPC are significant. Both have an establishment that isn’t genuinely interested in tackling certain problems or backing away from a still generally pro-business bias. Aside from some key fundamentals we can credit for upholding this difference, many of the practical differences between Canada and the U.S. are more in degree than nature – i.e. money in politics, corporate welfare, influence of traditional energy, (mostly provincial) industrial barons, etc.
Admittedly the Liberals are not my party of choice but there still is validity for voting for the lesser of two bad options. Until we can address the first past the post system we are beholden to voting more against than for a given regime by reaching a sort of mutual concensus with our neighbours before we hit the polls. That representive voting system needs to happen elsewise we’re stuck playing this dumb game.
But it’s hard to compare even this party I am not terribly enthusiastic to to the Democrats when there’s at least mediocre commitments to a number of decent causes toward reconciliation, reasonable commitment to the Kyoto climate accord targets, stated support of LGBTQIA+ causes and at least a lukewarm support of Palistine mostly expressed through refugee programs and a spineless condemnation of the atrocities and a recognition of two state authorities in the region. There’s also a much more robust court culture and a wider swath of people in the party who at least demonstrate a desire for a properly pluralistic, secular society.
It’s more useful to veiw the parties based on how they talk within their own parties because it’s not a presidential situation. There’s less unilateral moves to be made as a PM without party support is a lame horse. While I wish we would see wider endorsement of the NDP it’s not traditionally a popular party in the field and there’s way more swing between Libs and Conservatives.
The Liberals are trying their best to find a tasty middle ground for the “fiscal Conservative voter” to bite because strategy reasons. They put forward a candidate who is Albertan, Catholic, an outsider to politics with a lot of financial sector ties who pulls quotes from the era of the Quiet revolution and balancing government budgets for the discerning blue voter while the more leftist ones can chew on his ringing of alarm bells of wealth inequality, climate change and the lack of application of morals in the markets. He’s been largely silent on 2SLGBTQIA+ issues which while always a little unsettling the previous admin left on a very openly queer friendly stance so while again, not ideal, all that currently is needed at present is just not undoing what’s been done and supporting the stuff already in progress.
Is he everything we’ve dreamed? Not really. But it shows they are trying to build out a solid concensus candidate that a broad range of people can stomach.
I’m not. I’m telling you that running a campaign on nothing other than ‘not that guy’ is a recipe for a disaster.
Do. not. fall. into. that. trap.
its a trap this entire thread demostrates people are actively falling into.
You are literally describing the fucking conservatives with that. Their entire fucking campaign leading up to this moment was: WeRe NoT JusTiN. Lmao
The preferred candidate for Canada ATM is Mark Carney. Period. You wanna be a whiney little bitch keyboard warrior go right ahead and continue blaming all your problems on the government
Please change your tone. There’s no need for insults here.
preferred to whom. anyways good luck you’re going to need it.
Preferred to Canada??? The entire nation? Obviously If the riding you’re in is a CPC/NDP battle ground you should vote NDP, and if it’s a LPC/CPC battleground then you shouldn’t vote split and go liberal. This is very basic shit. Grow up.
What’re you gonna say next? that because trump said he would prefer dealing with a liberal that it’s true?
Yeah good job showing kamala she was wrong. Working real good. She definitely knows she lost.
laugh she won in my state silly. she lost because she didnt give people a reason to show up for her. recognizing and acknowledging that someone is a shit person and thats why they lost lets you address the problems I mentioned above.
but yes keep burying your head in the sand. the DNC is likely to lose the next election too unless they learn to give their base what they want.
she didnt give people a reason to show up for her.
Her opponent was Donald Trump. That’s it. That’s the reason.
If it was Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley I’d get it. But this wasn’t establishment Democrat vs establishment Republican. It was establishment Democrat vs actual fascism.
Her opponent was Donald Trump. That’s it. That’s the reason.
JFC, no, no it isn’t. This is exactly the point I’m making, this is exactly the reason kamala lost. The majority of the population doesn’t give a shit about politics and is uninformed and they dont bother understanding the political landscape.
If you run a campaign on ‘im not them’ and ‘i wont fix any of the things that are negatively impacting your life’ you will lose. Never mind demonstrating that you’re willing to fucking murder an entire people.
Why? because people are going to say ‘well both candidate suck, not going to bother with either’
Then you have the other candidate claiming to they’ll fix the price of eggs (even if they wont) and at least they’re addressing issues impacting you.
Facts:
- the majority of the populace has never interacted with transgendered individuals they do not understand them
- the majority dont care about the struggles of LGBT+ community. they think the country is inclusive enough and live and let live.
- the majority of americans constantly suffer from abuses by corporate groups via denied health claims, price gouging, over working their employees.
Running around saying ‘i’m not my opponent, and I will do nothing to help you but i’ll do this other thing that costs corporate american nothing and impacts maybe 2 million people’ is a fucking recipe for disaster.
This is why kamala was missing 20 million votes. not because she was black, not because she was female, but because she offered nothing for people to show up to vote for her and the democrats despite massive systemetic problems our country is currently facing. When your major policy announcement is lol weed something the majority of the country already has easy access too people will just yawn and stay home.
If you’re Canadian reading this thread: Do. not. be. this. person. demand your candidates improve your lives. do not think that simply not being the other person will win.
I 100% agree with you. What a lot of Kamala voters don’t realize is that there were a lot of people who WANTED to vote for Trump. They weren’t voting for Trump because he wasn’t Kamala, they were actually motivated to get out and vote for their guy. Kamala didn’t even try anything to get people to come vote for her other than, “I’m not Trump.” Learn a goddamn lesson Democrats.
JFC, no, no it isn’t. This is exactly the point I’m making, this is exactly the reason kamala lost. The majority of the population doesn’t give a shit about politics and is uninformed and they dont bother understanding the political landscape.
In that case, it didn’t matter who the Democratic nominee was, Trump would have won.
If “being a literal fascist” isn’t enough to motivate someone to vote for the only other candidate, then it doesn’t matter who this other candidate actually was. Trump would still be the victor.
Child, most voting americans dont know wtf fascism even fucking means.
Stop thinking you can wave the word around have it make your argument for you. Kamala could gave easily won if she made an strong case for how she was going to improve peoples lives at home and not make people feel like they were contributing to genocidal slaughter.
But she decided to continue gaslighting during her campaign just like she did as VP and as a congress critter. People notice these things.
Trump is a mess people like yourself have made by being completely fucking blind to the reality around you.
The voters for trump fucking like trump.
Many voters for democrats hate the fucking Democrats.
What you need to understand is that voters dont have a short memory, but they do encode information as vague emotional recollections.
When harris has a history of fucking the american workers over they remember the feeling of betrayal and annoyance if not the specific actions.
When harris decided to put non violent criminals in jail as an AG, people remember.
When harris decided to back track on healthcare, people remember.
When harris decided to let minimum wage increase die because of an unelected, non binding individuals opinion, people remember.
When harris decided to attempt to gaslight the entire American people about bidens mental acuity, people remember.
Trump would have easily been beaten if harris came out with a fucking backbone and a hard on for restoring the working class’ economic well being.
She decided to continue gaslighting and doubling down on genocide. And people remember.
And finally harris wasnt the only other candidate available. Stop spouting that nonsense like it somehow matters. Esp given 20 million people didnt even fucking show up and vote.
Now, unless you have something actually useful to say kindly fuck off we both have better things to do.
Typically, when editing a comment, you should probably state that you made one. Everything after “Many voters for democrats hate the fucking Democrats.” was added after I made my comment.
You could have easily made the comment afterwards a reply to my other one.Child, most voting americans dont know wtf fascism even fucking means.
In that case Trump would have won no matter the Democratic nominee. All Trump had to do was state “price of eggs” and win.
Stop thinking you can wave the word around have it make your argument for you. Kamala could gave easily won if she made an strong case for how she was going to improve peoples lives at home and not make people feel like they were contributing to genocidal slaughter.
And now they get to feel like that they’re contributing harder to genocidal slaughter, annexing three countries, and let Ukraine be annexed by Russia. Good job to them. Granted:
The majority of the population doesn’t give a shit about politics and is uninformed and they dont bother understanding the political landscape.
so they might not realize anyway.
Trump is a mess people like yourself have made by being completely fucking blind to the reality around you.
Last I checked I’m Canadian, so no.
The voters for trump like fucking trump.
Many voters for democrats hate the fucking Democrats.
In that case Trump would have won no matter the Democratic nominee.
What next election?
The Cons have lied through their teeth for decades, but specifically since Mulroney. He followed Reagan around like a lapdog and did his bidding. NAFTA never should have been signed.
If for no other reasons at all I think Canadians should vote Liberal for these two stances from their 2021 platform:
- 0 or lower emissions by 2050
I think climate change is a much more immediate concern than most people realize, there simply is no excuse to throw the future away over lesser social concerns.
- Taxing people who make more than 49k a Minimum non-deductible 15%, as a method of preventing the use of loopholes to pay 0% effective rates by the wealthiest of Canadians.
I think the 49k Canadian Dollars is a bit low for the bar to be, but if it taxes the rich then everyone below the 1% gains more from this policy than they lose.
But I’m not Canadian. Ya’ll do you.
there simply is no excuse to throw the future away over lesser social concerns.
You underestimate just how selfish people can be
How selfish conservatives and gullible people can be.
They are also people
The one thing I wish would stay is the 66% capital gains over $250000 a year. That tax would impact the highest of income earners only but I also see the reason in scrapping that for now to spur capital investment here. Eventually we are going to have to increase the taxes on the rich but the economic growth from what we have laid out so far will spur our economy for the next year or two until we set up trade improvements for our European and South Asian allies.
We are going to be building faster then we ever could at a time like no other. Just as we had Europe’s back in both world wars we will have your backs now in the face of Russian aggression and we will keep tabs on those American fascists running the country to the south of us. We will happily supply Europe with the resources it needs just as we did before. Natural gas, hydrogen, lumber, wheat, potash, aluminum, steel, lithium, cobalt, nickel, and so much more.
This is the Canadian century, and we will rise to the occasion
Vote, bring your friends to vote, post about voting and encourage everyone to fucking vote.
If you haven’t seen it.
So fucking sad
Vote conservative; vote Liberal.
