with bonus threat of increasing tariffs if any retaliation…
Charge US $30B per month for NORAD access. If Russia can strike Permean basin with nuclear ICBM then that can help their negotiations with ending war on Ukraine. Fund UBI based on NORAD fee.
Eliminate tariffs on China. Sanctions on Russia. US industry that says it will make long term expansion investments in US to cut off Canadian supplies, gets immediate China contracts in response. Or make comensurate “lease fee” for NORAD higher.
Fentanyl and immigration is complete BS. This is a declaration of war based on manufacturing a false “national emergency” pretext. Any response that doesn’t treat it as a war declaration by US is pathethic weakness and politician/Canadian treason to their CIA masters.
Make the US beg to treat Canada much better than it was treated before these tariff declarations. USA collapse is necessary for Canada to prevail. Not begging to let Trump declare you a sufficient sycophantic bitch, which won’t happen.
I propose we temporarily adopt the “trade war” flag
Why not ban American imports, ban American passports, close American embassies, order American businesses and schools to leave the country?
Canada also needs to spin up a full on poaching program and asylum program.
Any US citizen with a fairly clean criminal record (with anything legal in Canada ignored, IE possession of weed would be ignored as that’s legal here) ca apply for immediate Canadian citizenship as long as they renounce America
Priority given to anyone with any form of valuable skills, degrees, tickets, certificates, etc
If you can build houses, you get in and can start work ASAP.
We need to simply poach the US’s valuable workforce at a time like this, which instantly will drag down their overall economy.
All your best scientists? Teachers? Engineers? Developers? Architects? Plumbers? Electricians? Doctors, nurses, surgeons? You name it, we should poach it right now on a fast track, watch as the US suddenly watches huge swaths of its work force evaporate.
Follow up with just cutting off trade with the US for as long as it takes. Completely sever their energy, oil, food, lumber, etc supply.
The entire north will quickly dry up as suddenly food skyrockets in price.
Finally end respecting of US patents and trademarks. Start quickly making our own versions of drugs patented in the US, but way cheaper.
Want our cheap drugs and better medical systems? Our poaching asylum system is ready for you.
I’d take that deal.
That’s an evil idea - I love it. (As an American)
Visited Nova Scotia for work several years ago. I’d go back in a heartbeat! Sign me up, and it’d get me out of Alabama.
Take meeeeee. I have some carpentry experience.
American here. If you want to hurt us, shut off our power. You supply oil, natural gas, and hydroelectric to multiple states including my own. If you shut off Vermonts hydroelectric via hydro Quebec during winter we’d be completely fucked. I’m kinda hoping you do so we have a reason to secede and potentially join you as a province if you’d allow it. Fuck America.
I prefer “double” export tariffs to shutoffs. Electricity 50%, and oil 20%. split between federal and provinces. Stuff like OJ and Bourbon, 50%+ tariffs instead of blocking imports.
Absolutely, soliciting US states to join confederation as a province is something that should be open, official policy, now. You/we can “dress it up” as US constitutional convention (normally 75% of states call for, but 10 provinces too) for exploration of 10 new states joining, or dividing “the union” into Canada and US.
I’m not sure I’m following you on the constitutional convention. Do Canadians have their own version of that? In America it will never happen, we wouldn’t be able to get whatever the legal majority (2/3?) is to do anything. I’m kind of hoping that most Americans are so dumb they don’t even know we’re a state, and we’re so small and economically unimportant that if we left they wouldn’t even notice.
I’ve legit been on the phone with some customer service rep from some other part of the country and they asked me if vermont was a country and where in the world it is. I mean we were… before we became the 14th state.
Constitutional convention is a tough ask that requires 2/3 of both congressional houses to question their rule even if the states they represent would want one. But state secession movements “dressing up” their desires into a request for one, has no good reasons to object to one, especially if default is that 75% of states must agree to changes.
I think we should do it at the state level - democratic vote - and then if the response is leave we just stop paying the feds taxes and kick them off our land. What are they gonna do, invade us for our maple syrup? We invented guerrilla warfare and were heavily armed and know the mountains better than y’all queda does. And we’re accustomed to winter. The southerners wouldn’t stand a chance.
I think we should do it at the state level - democratic vote - and then if the response is leave we just stop paying the feds taxes and kick them off our land.
Yes. This approach is good. “Pay your federal taxes to our state instead, and we will negotiate appropriate relationship/independence from Trump/federal government.” California facing extortion over federal relief on forest/city fires, is reason for them to never pay federal taxes again, to support Florida unconditionally year after year, never mind, red state tax parasitism in general.
Yeah. It would be a very risky big leap, but I think some blue states would be interested. Vermont went overwhelmingly for Harris, and we have an independent streak and history of our own. But other blue states would be harder - California and New York seem bright blue but they aren’t - the cities are and the rural areas are not. Vermont receives more federal tax money than we pay, not as much as the red welfare states but a considerable amount. I think New England as a whole would be interested but New Hampshire would be a wildcard. It could inflame a neighbor against neighbor civil war… people stupidly think a second civil war would have clear battle lines like the first. No way.
The biggest risk besides outright hot war would be foreign interference outside of Canada and the US. The US has made a ton of enemies with our foreign policy, and with us in obvious disunion they could start arming sides like we have done abroad. Or straight up invade. Or go after their own geopolitical aims closer to home (which I care less about, I’m tired of being the worlds police that few ever asked for).
One of the benefits is the US government hasn’t outright won a war since ww2 and the Canadians are formidable fighters in their own right. But a hot war should be avoided at all costs, it would be brutal. Many millions would die, if not in outright war in disease and starvation.
And what about the billionaires? Somebody needs to render them useless in the process. Otherwise they’ll just reign the rubble.
the cities are and the rural areas are not
Same for all of US. Proper secession would involve cities independently deciding, and then their surrounding rural areas deciding after. State “dictatorship”/electoral corruption is not any better than Federal corruption. There can never be freedom if divorce is forbidden.
The biggest risk besides outright hot war would be foreign interference outside of Canada and the US.
Foreign interference in Canada is exclusively US and Israel, with “scandals over foreign interference” without much evidence against countries that could force US/Israel to pay more to fix elections. Russian interference in US/Canada is often accused, but it is to foster divisiveness, to the glee of right wing parties seizing on the hatred manufactured, and repeating all of it. There is no “Buy Russian stuff and love Russia party”, and the foreign interference bs can very well be right wing parties contracting cheap eastern european labour.
Canadians are formidable fighters in their own right. But a hot war should be avoided at all costs, it would be brutal. Many millions would die, if not in outright war in disease and starvation.
How tough Canadians are on a 5 on 5 hockey rink doesn’t matter. Canada would need to have/ally nuclear strikes on US. A single one would collapse US economy. Without that willingness, or without absorbing individual states, then Canada might as well surrender now.
Do we have to hurt socialist Vermont of all things? 🥹
It’s not that I want you to hurt us, it’s that I want you to accelerate our secession from the failed disunited states. I want nothing to do with our fascist federal government.
The turd thinks the US are needed by everyone, but the truth is the world can and will live without them. What he’s not asking himself (because he’s afraid of the answer or simply too stupid to realize) is if the US can live without the world. And the answer is no. But he’ll get there in due time.
American Exceptionalism makes it hard for a lot of Americans to have an “are we the baddies” moment.
With a US war declaration, Canada needs to join rest of world aggressively. Eliminating US empire dictated sanctions. NORAD is essential to US global extortion. The only withdrawal to US’s declaration of war comes with just “flirting” with US national security diminishment, and freedom from colonization.
Outcompete Mexico on Fentanyl, with a mission to cut Heroin with it for purposes of killing US addicts as a Canadian government program is a better response to end the war than appeasement. No visas for Iran IRGC soldiers while tariffs apply.
Outcompete Mexico on Fentanyl, with a mission to cut Heroin with it for purposes of killing US addicts as a Canadian government program is a better response to end the war than appeasement.
That’s fucked up and won’t move the needle at all, you’re just doing the fascists work for them. They’d probably like it if you would kill off our drug addicts.
The lowest of American society didn’t vote for this… they likely didn’t vote at all. Aim at the top. Shut off the ability of rich Americans to enter your country. No more ski vacations. Seize American owned properties and redistribute to your own people (with the option for Americans to renounce citizenship and gain Canadian and keep their property).
That’s fucked up and won’t move the needle at all, you’re just doing the fascists work for them. They’d probably like it if you would kill off our drug addicts.
well then why is current small Canadian fentanyl smuggling a problem? Killing drug addicts accidentally is the only downside of Hospital preferred opiate.
It’s not so much that killing as many Americans with fentanyl contamination is going to win friends, but that there is no possible appeasement to Trump coercion for our sovereignty.
It’s not a big problem, it’s lies told by trump to rile up his base.
You want to meet the moment? Shut off our power. Trust me, that will do it. That will fuck everyone over especially his supporters.
Edit - I thought this guy was your resident crackhead leader but apparently it’s his brother (sorry I’m dumb American). He’s onto something here: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/11/ontario-premier-threatens-cut-off-energy-supply-us-00193895
I have a hard time with anyone being called a Russian shill, or a Chinese shill, or whatever. I’m not Canadian and don’t spend much time in this part of lemmy, but I like hearing views from others even if they’re ones I disagree with.
Maybe in ~1970 we could but our oligarchs shipped all of our manufacturing abroad. And even so, raw materials come from everywhere.
If big 3 auto does the slightest signal to support Trump, nationalize with zero compensation any Canadian assets.
why don’t we apply for eu membership? /s(?). US is too erratic, why not reach out for other partnerships?
- The EU wouldn’t take us.
- Western Canada would see joining the EU as a bad deal. Alberta especially would be very opposed to it.
The EU wouldn’t take us.
I’d actually love to have Canada in the EU. Not sure if the rules would allow it and there would definitely be issues around standards but I feel like most Europeans would be me more than open to the notion.
I propose: you trade Alberta to the US and receive New England and the Pacific Northwest?
I’m in Alberta, so no :(
Canadian politicians see that as overton window. Real cooperation with EU comes with threatening alliance/cooperation with Russia. China, North Korea, Iran relations necessary too. Without Russia relations “threat”, including soliciting better deals for NORAD sites, EU will just desperately kiss the diaper in hopes of avoiding their own tariffs which they won’t.
No one was stopping Canada from trade with Europe before. Tariff levels are not high/significant. Expect crickets from EU, unless they need to beg Canada to not remove sanctions on Russia specifically, but because they are also US/CIA colonies, on other US adversaries.
Canada needs to not just mention in passing that this is a war declaration, but also treat the US as an enemy until/if they beg for better relations.
does article 5 count for economic stuff?
Canada has some goodwill why not call in some favours?
If it sounds like I have no idea what I’m talking about that is because I have no idea what I’m talking about, but I’d love to learn more! I’m curious what my country is going to do when its neighbour starts bullying us/everyone. Why not team up with mexico and start making some unusual alliances?
article 5 of NATO is not as scary as it sounds. It only requires having a meeting. Inter NATO disputes (Greece and Turkey) have previously been ruled as not even requiring a meeting.
Why not team up with mexico and start making some unusual alliances?
Mexico certainly produces the food that Canada can’t and can be substituted from US suppliers. There is the issue of whether it can be transported by land to Canada. The necessary “unusual” alliances are with Russia, China, Iran, North Korea.
How does trumb have this power? Taxes should start in congress
Creating a fake “national emergency” means dictatorial powers. This is a declaration of war because the national emergency is false, and a pretext for war and extortion.
There is a need to suspend our “military alliance”/subservience while these tariffs apply.
ITT we pretend we’re Russian agi-prop
How the fuck is Elon fucking musk taking over all these different us bureaucracies? Don’t know but it’s happening. The “law” is a fig leaf. They don’t give a fuck.
Charging access to NORAD seems impractical. I think at that point they’d just annex, and there isn’t much we could do about it.
Totally think eliminating Chinese tariffs makes sense, and we should just do that.
I’m also pretty convinced we shouldn’t retaliate with tariffs – I think those would just hurt Canadian’s.
I do like the don’t buy red state exports, but I may just be being vindictive.
Charging access to NORAD seems impractical. I think at that point they’d just annex, and there isn’t much we could do about it.
US military annexation by driving tanks into Ottawa has only counter to bribe a nuclear power to do sufficient damage to destroy US economy/debt sustainability. Playing nice, begging to restore colonial status, is capitulation in of itself. Just waiting for fatigue to accept extortionist demands on sovereignty.
Totally think eliminating Chinese tariffs makes sense, and we should just do that.
I keep hearing we import a lot of furniture from US. China makes furniture. If big 3 auto companies stand with Canada, keep Chinese EV tariffs, but drop solar and battery ones. Cheap batteries would make Canadian EVs competitive even as exports to US with tariffs.
I’m also pretty convinced we shouldn’t retaliate with tariffs – I think those would just hurt Canadian’s.
I like export tariffs the most. Raises revenue without raising prices for Canadians. Tariffs on “useless” US goods can be high, pay a bit more for Mexico/South American agricultural import shipping. Opening up China import competition is cost reduction for Canadians. Plenty of Canadian substitutes in processed food and alcohol.
Today’s the day when almost everything @humanspiral wrote in a post made sense without seeming like a complete foreign agent. 😂
Today is the day where “US empire values” makes you rethink your unwitting foreign agent role. :P
Damn that hurt. I’m not even sarcastic.
He’s right though, as an American, every one of our former allies needs to be on red alert. A madman is at the helm with the intent to destroy everything.
I’m afraid it may be worse than that. It seems like (a part of) the American capitalists that have decided that they aren’t getting enough from American and allied workers, that they don’t control enough of the power structure. They seem ready to throw away the compromise drawn with the people that prevented revolution after the Great Depression. I’m afraid the madman is just the front man of this effort and the effort will continue after he’s gone, until a breaking point when we get to play the revolution roulette again.
Blackshirts and The Reds details it all. If you want to know what’s happening here read it.
Its time for us Americans who know to organize and get ready to seize their modes of power.
