Summary
Trump plans to lift the Biden administration’s freeze on supplying 2,000-pound bombs to Israel and reverse sanctions against Israeli settlers.
Summary
Trump plans to lift the Biden administration’s freeze on supplying 2,000-pound bombs to Israel and reverse sanctions against Israeli settlers.
Well, would you look at that, third-party protest voters / abstainers / “undecideds”: you saved Palestine. /s
The undecideds are about as dumb as the maggots. They were told, over and over, that they were effectively voting for a fascist. But they couldn’t imagine that the leopard would eat their faces. Now, that fucking guy will make “Genocide Joe” look like a god damn saint.
Refusing to hold Democrats accountable is also voting for Fascism. If your vote is 100% reliable to the Dems, they don’t have to do anything to win your vote. And thus, they can completely ignore you and everything you care about. The Dems have moved so far to the right that modern Republican Fascism doesn’t seem completely unreasonable to many people by comparison. After all, Democrats firmly embraced what was far-right immigration policy just a few years ago. Democrats have made a hard turn to the right. This has forced Republicans to move even further right into Fascism. And if things continue down this path, with Democrats never being held accountable, eventually both Democrats and Republicans will be overtly Fascist.
That is what happens if a party is never held accountable.
As mentioned oh, so, so, so many times, voting for the least worst option doesn’t preclude holding them to account. That part comes after, once democracy is assured.
Except, people voted for cruelty and fascism to really stick it to the Dems. Now there’s worse fascism and no democracy.
Good job.
Feel proud.
How are you going to hold them to account after? Theres zero correlation between what the public wants and what the government does. The only moment you have any importance at all is for that one brief instant you vote. Thats all you get in our fake democracy. So I think you’re being dishonest.
LOL, sure Jan. Did we just watch the same Biden presidency?
When, precisely, did you expect that day to come?
Holding those in power accountable is a continuous process. It doesn’t just happen on a specific day or another. Politically active and concious people protest and raise awareness in an ongoing manner regardless of who is in power. The world didn’t end on 5 Nov 2024 or 20 Jan 2025 - fighting for democracy will never stop.
You would know this if you actually put your money where your mouth is, as it were.
And how, precisely, did “holding the Dems accountable” work out after 2016? Did they “learn their lesson”?
The primaries are where the accountability should happen. For the vast, vast majority of elections in the US the winner will be either the Democratic candidate or Republican candidate. And you can turn in primary ballot without voting for any of the candidates. Your participation is then a matter of public record, and campaign managers will be inclined to try and win your vote.
edit - you can also become an actual party member, maybe even a delegate, and vote on leadership.
Democrats do not run democratic primaries. It’s why they invented superdelegates and fought for their presumed right to run dirty, undemocratic primaries in court.
It’s this simple. Dems knew since their primaries that voters wanted them to stop sending WMD’s to Israel. Multiple state level primaries had double-digit percentages of voters that voted “undecided” specifically to communicate that they wanted change on the Israeli genocide.
Democrats just shrugged their shoulders and ignored it.
Well I did say should. So what is your suggestion? Vote third party? By my quick scanning of this page there’s are <45 members of state legislatures around the country, out of >7,500 total state legislators. And 2 out of 535 US Congress members. Not voting? They don’t care. That’s just less time and money they have to spend trying to connect with a potential opposition voter.
Yes, for starters.
Also, do some introspection. Democrats do not support democracy. Despite all the nice things they say, they are fascists. Voting against them is a moral act.
I’ve been saying it since June. I know I’m shouting into the void. Unless you’re willing to go full Player 2 or you’re a billionaire, you have no power here.
So how do you plan to succeed with third parties in the face of the cumulative failure of all third parties combined to win even 1% of the offices? In particular in contrast to the recent increase of progressive candidates running for and winning Democratic primaries?
I did, and that’s why I stopped voting for any 3rd parties in 2016. I had voted for candidates from all parties prior to then. Because they can’t win a large enough scale without electoral reform. And we won’t get that by losing all the elections.
So if we’re getting fascists either way (because again, the winners of >99% of elections around the country are going to be either the Democratic candidate or the Republican candidate), wouldn’t voting to prevent the ascension to power of the racist transphobes who are publicly voicing their desire to detransition transgender persons and denaturalize and deport citizens be the moral thing to do?
And I assume people like me have been responding to you the whole time. And your voices were enough to lose the election for the rest of us. So not much a void.
Sorry, I don’t understand the Player 2 reference. And since you don’t appear to have been paying attention, the billionaires are all winning now (they wanted Trump, they got Trump).
It’s laughable that you claim to have done any introspection and still blame 3rd party voters for Democrats losing elections in the same post, as if it wasn’t the choice to run a brain dead candidate, ditch said candidate and do zero democracy to find another (granted, as we’ve established, democrats don’t run democratic primaries anyway), and then the replacement candidate spent their whole campaign telling millions of people watching their friends get genocided or working 100 hours a week to live in a roach-infested studio to just be joyful about it.
My brother, we lived through 2016 and the superdelegates. Democrats don’t get to punch someone in the face and then complain that they broke their hand, and the votes aren’t coming back until they start caring more about workers than they do about finding more money and WMD’s for genocide.
And we’re not winning just because the person doing the fascism wears a blue pantsuit.
That’s a good point. My vote was pragmatic over principle. The dems need to be held accountable, but they won’t. There needs to be a major overhaul of the party, but realistically I don’t see that happening any time soon. For the foreseeable future this is what we are stuck with.
That whole be the change thing is horseshit in this day and age.
So hold them accountable for literally any other office besides president when the opponent is a literal fascist?
So never?
Are Republicans going to stop being Fascist at any time in the foreseeable future? They ran a fascist in 2016, 2020, and 2024. And they have a long line of potential future candidates.
“Don’t hold them accountable while running against a fascist” == “never hold them accountable.”
And there’s no point in going after officers other than the president on this issue. It’s not like governors have much control over foreign policy.
Yes, “held accountable” because you can’t imagine a world in which geopolitics means you can’t just cut off all support to an ally with an “or else”.
The only thing worse than the morons too stupid to see that Trump is going to do what he says, are the morons who think that you can just drop all aid to Israel overnight and nothing will happen. Do any of you have ANY idea how intertwined both our military and tech sectors are?
Reagan threatened Israel with cutting off all aid, unless they play ball. And they did.
Without the US supporting Israel its other allies would also abandon it quickly.
So all the US has to do to make Israel do what the US says is withhold support until Israel obeys.
What Biden did instead was throwing the US to the feet of Israel, at best rambling and making token gestures. So the US halted 2.000 pound bombs? That surely didnt stop Israel from annihilating people in Gaza with the other bombs the US kept delivering.
That’s one of my favorite excuses for Democrats breaking promises and/or doing nothing: It’s hard. (As if we shouldn’t expect the people we elect to do hard things.)
And yes, when Israel wants more WMD’s to perpetrate a genocide, I would expect a conscientious president or legislators to do something about it and say no.
They said the same thing about Apartheid South Africa. You think it was easy to cut ties with them? They were also tied into our military industrial complex.
And I find the argument “but it’s going to be haaard” despicable.
Negotiations to end Apartheid took 6 years (1987 to 1993)! The US started placing sanctions in 1986, and the transition away from Apartheid didn’t start until 1990. Apartheid wasn’t fully ended until 1994.
They said it was hard to cut ties with them, and they were right. Global politics is harder than, “just do it.” Biden didn’t solve the genocide in a year, but he was working with a more difficult situation than just cutting off money/weapons. If he does that, then every country around Israel starts taking advantage of it and he has a much bigger situation to deal with. I don’t agree with how little Biden did to stop the genocide. I don’t agree with Harris not being vocal about putting even more pressure on Israel. But there is more at play than just “don’t send weapons.”
Voters weren’t expecting Biden to issue a complete trade embargo with Israel. What they were expecting was for Biden to FOLLOW US LAW and stop shipping arms to Israel, a country flagrantly violating law. There is a universe of possibilities between “stop sending Israel bombs on our dime” and “turn Israel into Cuba.”
You’ll notice that started with sanctions. “There will be a long time between pressure and results” isn’t an argument to not start the pressure.
They really are out here pretending that Genocide Joe didn’t enthusiastically help Israel stack corpses for the last 15 months of his presidency, literally down to the final day.
So glad they helped save Palestine, and definitely weren’t just eating up propaganda to get 🥭 reelected.
If by saving, they meant “it literally won’t exist” anymore, then yeah. 2000 pound bombs are good for leveling entire city blocks.
Most of Gaza is already leveled and uninhabitable. They didn’t need 2000 pound bombs.
Think of all the time they save of demolition services! /s
They’ve been dropping these 2,000lb bombs in Palestine and several of their neighboring countries for quite some time now. It’s pretty odd that people are trying to act all self-righteous about this when Trump is just continuing the exact same policy that Biden was.
This article is literally him reversing a Biden policy.
This “article” is literally two sentences long and makes no reference to the thousands of 2,000lb bombs we’ve been sending Israel this entire time.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2024/october/closer-look-israels-use-80-bunker-buster-jdams-beirut
https://fxb.harvard.edu/2024/10/10/new-study-shows-israel-air-dropped-2000lb-bombs-within-lethal-and-damage-ranges-of-hospitals-in-gaza/
How many Palestinian children have died so far with democrat supplied bombs again? You think you have a leg to stand on?
“but what if the genocide rubber stamp was still blue” is not a compelling argument.
I love that your defense here is: “Look at that, you’re just as big of a piece of shit as we are.”
But in reality, they’re objectively more moral than you are in voting against genocide. That it may happen anyway doesn’t change that.
Is it really “voting against genocide” when they voted against all the arms shipment pauses that are now being overturned? They voted against an administration, that administration lost, and now the winner has hit the ground running making the genocide immediately worse. What’s “objectively more moral” about increasing arms shipments to genociders?
There are many more issues beyond Gaza. The environment, healthcare, social rights, immigration. They are complicit in all of it.
Yesterday Trump declared “War on Transgender” and his desire to eradicate transgenderism in the US. Musk threw a literal Nazi salute. They immediately put out an EO targeting trans people. Non-voters and 3p voters are complicit in this and in what is about to happen to trans people in the US.
Or course, they don’t have the moral stain of a Trump supporter but “not a literal Nazi” shouldn’t be the baseline it is.
So why should someone care about any of these issues, while you demand them to ignore the issue they care about?
Why do we accept the Democrats pitting transrights against arab childrens right to life?
Because these issues much more directly affect people in the US, and by extension, you (assuming you’re even FROM the US)
Personally I’m a trans immigrant. In part BECAUSE of protest voters, my new priority over literally everything else is my own survival. It’s not that I don’t care about Gaza, my heart breaks for the Palestinians affected by the genocide, but I don’t have energy left to devote to that fight. That is by design as a fractured population is less able to work together.
What you mean by that is they affect you. There are Palestinians in the United States, Jewish people who want to quash the wave of antisemitism this will trigger, and other Americans who would like to not ignite another wave of anti-Americanism is the Arab world.
You don’t have to prioritize the anti-war movement over the issues that are closest to your own life and safety, but you don’t get to demand that they sideline the issues that are closest to their lives for you. Solidarity goes both ways.
Voting for more death to protest genocide is a vote FOR GENOCIDE you dumbass
By not voting, you voted for genocide under Trump. There is no neutrality against fascism, and there is no nonparticipation. You’re either against them or you’re with them.
Genocide under Trump vs. genocide under Biden isn’t a big moral difference. Your argument is supposed to be that the other moral issues are critically important, not that the flavor of genocides are important.
That is my argument, which you know, which is why you’re trying to pretend it isn’t. Does this normally work on people or something?
“there’s zero difference between mostly good with a little bad, and an absolute shitstorm of horrors”
“Genocide” as “a little bad” is quite the fucking choice.
A lot of genocide, a lot of oppression, a lot of revoking human rights, a lot of political persecution, a lot shifting blame, is quite the fucking choice
And Biden actually pushed for ceasefire and got one. Trump doesn’t.
A naive genocide apologist, what a shock. Israeli commentary on the right is that there’s not much reason to still be there as they’ve pretty much destroyed everything already. The time to push for a ceasefire was this time last year, and then to actually do something to bring it about. And it’s not even a real cease fire! They’re still killing people! They’re a vast distance between the things politicians say and the things that actually happen.
Fascinating how you think I’m the apologist when you at no point have been capable of criticizing Trump for being far worse, not acknowledging your own personal role in ensuring the genocide will get worse by helping Trump win, not acknowledging that those who opposed Trump did so to prevent things from getting worse, and that you then instead of helping prevent things get worse decided to send us spiraling down into a far far worse situation, for literally no other reason than that you’re an asshole who thinks the genocide is about you, because why else would you take an action that you claim is to make things “better” by removing a flawed person from power, when you knew all along the replacement would be worse? You’re only trying to ensure you didn’t support a person who didn’t do enough to prevent a genocide - meanwhile that decision actually means you made an active choice to make the genocide worse.
You’re only trying to shift blame. You and your crowd are personally responsible for things getting worse and you know it.
I voted for Kamala, but you have to be pretty dense to think that there is any meaningful difference between how Kamala and Trump would have handled Palestine. They’re both full-on Zionists. Giving them some bigger bombs won’t change things much. They already flatten entire neighborhoods at a whim.
If two candidates will likely both be abominable on an issue you care about, you might as well vote to hold the one representing the party that has already committed genocide accountable.
You realize the conversation started because Trump reversed the ban on the sale of some type of bombs which Harris wouldn’t have done, right? Because right away it shows a pretty meaningful difference.
Evidence suggests the 2000 lb. bombs were not the key factor in Israel committing genocide.
Kamala called for a ceasefire.
Trump said Biden should “Let [Israel] go and let [Israel] finish it.” and now he’s saying we’re going to give Israel bigger bombs to do it while removing economic sanctions on Israeli occupiers.
How can you say there is no meaningful difference?
So did Biden. She also said she couldn’t think of anything Biden had done that she’d have done differently. There’s a good reason people were skeptical about her being any different from what’s already happening.
I’m not sure how telling me that she’s the same as Biden is any kind of rebuttal to what I said. I responded to someone saying they believed Kamala and Trump would have no meaningful difference in their handling of it. I replied by linking to quotes from those two people showing a markedly different attitude (one says “stop shooting” and the other says “keep shooting until it’s done”). And now we’re seeing that Trump, as President, is carrying out actions consistent with what he said as a candidate, which were and are the opposite of what Kamala was saying before the election.
Because Biden was not meaningfully opposing the genocide but would say he wanted peace. We can’t know whether Harris was actually lying when she said she didn’t want to change anything, but saying she’s in favor of a cease fire and saying she didn’t want to act any differently than Biden isn’t a contradiction. He said he wanted a cease fire, and then he armed and shielded the genocide. We already have the template for how that works.
You still are ignoring the fact that we were comparing Kamala and Trump.
And Trump said as a candidate he thought we should do even less than Biden, and now is doing exactly that. So where in all of this am I supposed to have expected that Kamala would have been the same as Trump?
At some point the genocide is bad enough that there’s not much difference in further degrees. Doing even less than Biden isn’t a whole lot less, because Biden was barely doing anything and none of it seems to have been at all effective. An advanced military with unrestrained targeting and an infinite supply of 500 lb. bombs can destroy things pretty completely.
Perhaps we should try to agree on what empowering means:
Trump’s actions are empowering the genocide because they are clearly supportive of both Israel’s bombing and occupation.
I despise Trump, but I do not buy that argument for a second. You’re clearly taking a meaning that you’re inventing on your own, not from the text itself. “Let Israel go and finish it” could just as easily be interpreted as “they need to wrap this war up and reach a cease fire.”
Kamala called for a ceasefire, but her and Biden wouldn’t lift a pinky finger to actually produce such a cease fire. Trump seems to have actually succeeded at getting a ceasefire.
Trump didn’t do fuck all to get a ceasefire. The Biden admin negotiated it for months, but Israel held off right until the end (ala Reagan and Iran). Now that trump is in and removing all sanctions and weapon blocks, Israel is right back at “operations” in Gaza. Just remember that everything that happens from here on out should be hung around your neck and other Trump voters / sit it out voters. There’s never been a peaceful way out of fascism.
I don’t need to make anything up. Trump followed up his words as a candidate with his actions as president to resume giving Israel the bigger bombs that Biden stopped giving them and to remove financial sanctions on Israeli occupiers.
I mean sure if you ignore the fact that Biden stopped shipping these bigger bombs and tried using financial sanctions then yeah, they didn’t lift a finger.
Trump himself said he’s not confident the ceasefire will hold, and by some accounts Israel has already violated it
This is just blatantly disingenuous. It is not aligned with reality. You’re either delusional or you’re pushing a false narrative intentionally.
Yes leftists are the problem. Not the half of the country that willingly and happily voted for this.
Edit: Is there even any evidence that having protest voters vote for Kamala would’ve changed anything? Since I’m getting dogpiled here I want to clarify I was not a protest voter but everyone on Lemmy and Reddit keeps sharing this exact same sentiment
No, there isn’t. They just want to blame the left for centrism failing. Arabs and anti-war sentiment are convenient and evergreen “bad guys” in centrist politics and one that has been actively reinforced by the media since the genocide began. It’s a convenient scapegoat for an across the board failure of a centrist campaign.
And if this was actually the linchpin, then it wasn’t exactly a big surprise. The whole movement was trying to raise the issue and was repeatedly ignored.
Both are the problem. Try harder.
Not all leftists are this problem. Just the ones who didn’t vote for Kamala in an otherwise winnable state.
I agree with that.
That and one issue voters, and third party voters.
Where do you draw the line? The problem with “vote Blue no matter who” is that you give the Democrats more and more license to drift further and further right.
Kamala thought wrongly that she could completely abandon the progressive base. She fully embraced conservative positioning on Israel, the US border, and other issues. She ran a right wing campaign, compromising issue after issue to appeal to centrist Republicans.
Kamala’s degeneracy was only possible because of the attitude you espouse. Because as long as progressives are willing to “vote Blue no matter who,” there is nothing to prevent Democrats from drifting ever-further to the right.
The modern political landscape exists precisely because of the fact that for decades, progressives have been voting “Blue no matter who.” Democrats haven’t had to work hard to secure their base; they’ve taken them for granted. This has allowed Democrats to slip further to the right. As Democrats have slipped further right, Republicans have responded by moving into outright Fascism.
You are unwilling to ever hold Democrats accountable. And by doing so, you guarantee that eventually the presidential race will be “KKK vs neo-Nazis,” as Democrats themselves drift into Fascism.
You’re mixing up cause and effect
Yes it’s not the best strategy to appeal to the right, but the truth is their policies were more popular, Trump didn’t win on any tangible proposal, he won because of people staying home because they didn’t think he’d be that dangerous + people voting for Trump because the were convinced he’d be the one to deliver the policies they wanted (often the democrat’s policies which Trump took credit for) + straight propaganda from billionaire owned newspapers
The real fix isn’t changing the policies and all that, it’s better outreach and showing how their actions have directly helped people and how Trump achieved nothing positive
Also is very very weird when Biden has been the most progressive US president ever to talk about the whole party slipping to the right.
“Right” is relative to cultural median. Trump isn’t a more progressive Republican than past candidates just because he’s scapegoating trans people instead of gay people.
Im not going to refrence every point you made. I do agree with a lot of it.
I suppose this is my line: Now is the time for the 3rd party conversations, and actual action. Not two months before a general election. Not one 3rd party candidate put the work in this last four years, they just suddenly pop up right before the election with nothing in thier moving van. They were just on the street corner asking for money. Where are they now?
The R’s and D’s are where they are partly because they’ve spent so long putting the work into having a political party. For better or worse.
Democrats are the ones that need to try harder
Vote for better Democrats in the primaries (show when an incumbent won the general after a contested primary and convention before complaining about the lack of challengers in the 2024 Democratic presidential primaries).
What’s with all the people who are so aggressively trying to make sure everybody learns the wrong lesson?
Look at her numbers compared to Biden and look at Trump’s numbers compared to his numbers last elections. People didn’t come out for Harris, which was essentially them supporting Trump as the end result is his election.