Boots up gaming PC
Windows: “YOU IN DANGER ZONE! NEED WINDOWS 11! BUY NEW PC U SCRUB!!!111”
Load up Steam
Steam: “Hey, I see MS are being assholes - click here to install SteamOS instead”
Reboot PC
Millions of people never run windows again
I’m dreaming but that would be amazing. That would make this the year of the Linux desktop. C’mon GabeN, make it happen!
Things which are holding this back
- Collaboration with OEMs to provide SteamOS OTTB (Lenovo is an exception)
- Nvidia support. Most gamers use Nvidia GPU unfortunately
- Certain industry-standard software which don’t have a Linux port. PSA: Most people don’t want to learn alt software. Johnny Mainstream is scared of new softwares. This cannot be changed
- End-users suffer from choice paralysis and Linux offers endless choice. Maybe SteamOS can help.
What we know so far, SteamOS won’t be a general purpose OS, so it might not support every random piece of h/w.
We might not have the year of the Linux Desktop, but we can expect 2025-2026 to be the year of the Linux handheld.
SRC: Linux fanboy for the last decade
Choice paralysis is a surprisingly big issue. I’m waiting for the parts for my new gaming PC build to arrive, and the amount of time I’ve spent choosing a distro has been asinine.
But I did make the choice to leave both the NVIDIA and Windows eco systems on my desktop after seeing most my games run fine on the steam deck ( along with disliking windows 11, and NVIDIA ending gamestream support)As the saying goes, you have to use arch or you have a small penis
Hey! Some of us manage both.
Distro doesn’t really matter too much. Just don’t get some obscure distro that no one has heard of before.
Plus it’s pretty common for newbies to jump around to test out different distros anyway.
Most of the time, the differences you will see are just desktop environment.
After you have used Linux for some time, then you will understand the major differences between the distros other than the way they look.
If you have any questions about Linux feel free to send me a DM. I’m always happy to help.
You are aware of the differences (or lack thereof) because you have spent some time. But think from a newbie perspective. They think there are 1000s of completely different OSs.
“Does OpenOffice work on Ubuntu? On Kubuntu? On Arch?”
We somehow have to stop spreading this message.
Surprisingly for a choice that I realize doesn’t really matter, it still ends up burning alot of time researching.
Intially looked at Bazzite, which seemed great other than I wasn’t a fan of it immutability, I’ve had to remove the read-only property from my steam deck a few times.
Then I looked at CatchyOS/Arch, decided to avoid that as I know I’m too lazy to read notes every update, and while I don’t mind tinkering and fixing stuff… I want it to be on my schedule lol.
Avoiding Debian, my server currently runs it, but I remember it giving me headaches installing older JREs on it to run modded minecraft servers.
So I’m going to try OpenSuse, not for any real valid reason other than the last time I tried Linux as my daily driver ( 2004/2005) it was the first distro that worked smoothly without any driver headaches.
Intially looked at Bazzite, which seemed great other than I wasn’t a fan of it immutability, I’ve had to remove the read-only property from my steam deck a few times.
Fwiw, Bazzite handles its ‘immutability’ vastly different.
True, thats part of the reason why I didn’t try it. Bazzite seemed much closer to being truely immutable, vice the “read-only” safety rails SteamOS gives you. I like to tinker too much to put it on my own machine, but I’ll probably put Bazzite on my son’s gaming machine next time I upgrade it.
Bazzite seemed much closer to being truely immutable
If you meant that it’s even harder to tinker/change/configure etc compared to SteamOS, then I’d like to inform you that this is false. Fedora Atomic, and thus Bazzite, facilitates quite a lot actually. Of course, it’s not as moldable as say Arch or Gentoo. To illustrate this, I won’t bother you with all the things it can do. Because that would take a while. Instead, I’ll only focus on the things it actually can not do. On the top of my head, the following comes to mind:
Rip systemd out and replace it with another init, but I’m unaware if traditional Fedora even facilitates this to begin with.Bazzite’s founder came by and corrected me on this. Even this is probably possible as a custom image.- UKI
- Setup systemd-boot (or any other bootloader) instead of GRUB
- Kmods can be hit or miss; what’s found here is accessible. What remains can be very finicky.
- 3rd party repositories can be hit or miss; for example, both Terra and Tailscale work, but e.g. ProtonVPN may not.
That’s great. I looked into that one before, but never used it for some reason. I forget why, but it was nothing major.
I use CachyOs and it’s been a joy. If you want Debian but gaming optimized check out PikaOS. If you want Bazzite without immutability checkout Nobara.
Nvidia works flawlessly in my system, didn’t have to tweak anything.
Let me tell you about my Nvidia experience.
I use an old Nvidia card and I’m using the proprietary drivers. My distro maintainer said they are switching over to the open source version (only supported for 20xx series and above). They said it will cause an issue. I updated my distro like usual. And boom! Can’t boot anymore.
Since I’m more or less tech savvy, I could fix it but it took me few hours of my life to find the solution. I saw on reddit many people were having the same issue. If I constantly checked their Discord before every update, I could have avoided it but it’s impossible for a layman.
A mainstream person won’t be able to search & diagnose the problem. They will just think it’s a Linux problem and give up. This is why it’s impossible for Nvidia users to peacefully live with Linux. I know they are going to release a proper driver for Wayland but I am pretty sure that will take another 2-3 years. But till then, my stance remains the same.
There are a few things in your anecdote that are particular to your case and which should be solvable by an installer that focuses on gpu detection; those are the things that valve will focus on.
I’m sure it’s solvable but I call these example “death by a 1000 papercuts”. I don’t want absolute newbies to face these issues which will make them give up Linux forever.
I am not saying that Linux can’t be mainstream. I’m saying Nvidia is one of the blockades for Linux becoming mainstream. I have bazzite on my Rog Ally and it’s a fantastic experience, way better than windows, but it’s because of AMD.
If AMD can get an equal footing in the GPU landscape (unlikely in the next 5 years), maybe things can change. I just hope Nvidia comes to their senses and properly support Wayland.
Mine works fine, I knew nothing about linux and all I did was disable secureboot and copy paste some commands into the terminal. Now games that used to crash in windows don’t and games that didn’t run run. And yes spent tons of time scouting forums, going through dumb windows control panels and messing around in regedit to troubleshoot it without a solution.
Right, so since you had that experience, everyone else must also have it?
Previous commenter cited Nvidia support as a problem, I gave my singular experience of it not being a problem.
Not sure what you are on about.
Why did you feel compelled to give your anecdote, if not to undermine the idea that Nvidia support is not good?
We might not have the year of the Linux Desktop, but we can expect 2025-2026 to be the year of the Linux handheld.
I would argue that year of the Linux handheld has been since the deck dropped. There’s been nothing that’s anywhere near the solid experience of a Steam Deck. Every competitor is releasing with windows, and all I ever hear from the people I know who bought one of those is that they like it…now that they’re running Bazzite. The ones that aren’t releasing with windows are doing android, and while I get a whole bunch of gaming from my various android devices, until I can play pc games unported they aren’t competing in the same space.
That would be a massive headache because you’d have to make it work on any hardware. And if you bork your users’ PCs you’re in for a really bad time. It would be much better to come up with a new Steam machine.
i mean… any hardware is kinda just a matter of time imo
linux already works with more hardware than windows does, and often more reliably - not some of the complex stuff required for gaming of course, but again… matter of time. it’s not important until it’s important and then it really kicks off
Big old citation needed there.
Supports more hardware… But not gaming hardware… And not industrial hardware which is often windows only… But def more…
the point is that the architecture and development style of linux provides for a very robust and reliable platform to develop hardware for
gaming is a VERY new thing on linux, so it’s not at all surprising that support is in its infancy… but you look at things that linux has been doing basically since the internet has existed: servers, and hardware support is unmatched
… and there’s way more server hardware than there are most other categories of hardware
Most of the world computer hardware is running linux already. Linux is the most popular os by far since all the servers run it. Desktop linux is very new and has gone far in a short time. With more users being lured in (and the windows exodus might be able to lure in the vital tech people) more problems will get solved.
Does anybody remember Wubi? It was Linux that was installed on Windows just like a regular program. Gave you an option to choose Linux on boot. It didn’t make any partitions, and if you didn’t want it anymore? Then you’d go to Windows and uninstall like any other program. It had a few limitations but was an interesting concept.
Yeah, I remember Wubi! That was 20-ish years ago now. It kind of got made irrelevant by VM’s I guess. I wonder if it’s still around.
VMs are still slow unless you’re talking linux on linux with KVM
Wubi was great because you got native speed to test Linux with, which was probably better than Windows for at least most versions of Windows.
There’s WSL now in Windows 11 - a built-in, pretty performant instance of Linux. The recent versions run a proper Linux kernel I believe (the older ones were more of a compatibility layer over Windows APIs). I’m not sure what the limitations of WSL are. But there is already some kind of Linux in Windows. I use it for the odd utility and to avoid having to learn PowerShell.
There is. Wubi was more about giving 14 year old me the confidence to try out an entirely different os.
Of course! It’s what got me started!
I love it as a concept, and frankly a dual boot installer (create partitions) that worked from Windows would be pretty useful I think. USB/disk installs add complexity that just hurt the chances.
Are you sure you don’t want to create a microsoft ID? Microsoft believes that you should only trust them with all of your data and credentials. They promise they won’t hand over your information to the government unless the government serves them a subpoena or has an agreement to access the data that is lawful or they detect something they have been asked to report.
Well you wouldn’t mind the government just checking unless you’re a criminal. /s
You forgot the /s
I see people railing against it so often on here I tried not using it to see from their point of view for once. It appears to have been unwise
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t 😁
I would have understood the sarcasm. The surveillance state is gross.
You forgot the endless pages of trick questions you have to periodically step through to get into Windows. One wrong move and you owe Microsoft money every month.
“It erased pictures of my nana, Im going to sue Gabe Newell!” Windows users 🙄🙄
(I am that user)
If Linux had better nvidia support I would swap in a heart beat.
AMD’s RT performance is getting quite close to Nvidia. Each generation gets them closer and closer.
CUDA will always be proprietary but there’s a ton of resources being put against alternative solutions.
I have been running OpenSUSE with nVidia for 7 years. No issues here.
Using Pop for almost 2 years on nvidia laptop and pc, no problem, whats the issue?
…Ok no problem is a lie, but it wasn’t GPU related problems…
I had issues with my specific hardware combo of i9 14900k and 4090 and multi display issues that windows doesn’t seem to have. Though that could just be my ignorance.
Depending on the issue it may be fixed now that Wayland is better supported on Nvidia.
X.org always had issues running multiple displays with different refresh rate for example.
But don’t know your exact problem of course. May be something different. I think there will be some big leaps made with nkv (the new open source drivers for Nvidia cards), but it gonna take some time.
You can always try something like pop_os on a live usb. They have the Nvidia drivers installed and use Wayland I think.
I had an issue with 2 4k screens through my dock, but that was apparently my docks fault.
Amd cpu and 4070ti super here without issues. I suspect intel being the usual dumpster fire.
I am happy going cold turkey to fedora. Windows is the less user friendly and functional experience considering i didn’t even need to scour the internet for my weird audio device or graphics tablet drivers. Also steam uses multible times more ram than the os and my phone messages are on the screen and clipboard gets shared.
I hope that SteamOS finds more of its way into desktop computers. Sure, I don’t trust Valve; just like I don’t trust any other corporation. But it’s like fighting a big cancer with a smaller meta-cancer, if they hurt Windows/Microsoft I’m happy.
Plus its current relationship with GNU/Linux is symbiotic.
Valve is the chemotherapy/radiation to Microsoft. Not quite a cure but both are still deadly.
Why is steam/valve bad?
They are a privately owned company with 100% focus on customer service and sustainably.
Yeah they charge like 10% of profit for the games on there, and more if you make it big. To be on the only platform where people actually shop for PC games…
Nobody has ever given me a real problem with Steam where some other company isn’t already doing significantly worse shit in comparison.
They charge 30%, and only goes down after making $10 million in sales.
But Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft charge just as much.
Every other game storefront has been like “But Valve doesn’t even do anything! We’ll cut them out and then we’ll make so much more money!” And then they force you over to their own garbage storefront that has none of the features of Steam, has a smaller selection of games and demands equal space in your system tray at all times.
They’re only undercutting Valve cause they wish they could be the monopoly taking 30%
Don’t get me wrong I think 30% is bullshit, but it’s an industry thing not especially a Valve thing
Remember when Google’s motto was “don’t be evil”? Remember when Facebook was innovative? Remember when [insert any post-IPO platform] was privately owned?
Look at the past and future, not just the present. Corporations eventually go sour, and fight against the very users that they were supposed to serve. Give Steam/Valve enough power and it’ll do the same. We don’t need corporations serving us software; we need open systems.
That said Valve is situationally useful here because it’s eroding Microsoft’s power.
Give Steam/Valve enough power and it’ll do the same.
Valve has tons of power. Like, a lot. They seem to (for the most part) wield it responsibly. They’re certainly not perfect but time and time again, given the choice, they choose to do the right thing. Look no further than the Steam Deck.
Imagine how easy it would have been to ship it with Windows. But they went through the pain-staking and expensive process of creating Proton and making everything work super smoothly on a completely open-source OS, and even funding the developers of said OS. Sure, they needed something to distance themselves from Microsoft but imagine how easy it would be for them to lock down the OS so that you could never leave Steam or install any competing stores or make any modifications. Or they could even create their own OS/ecosystem like XBOX and PS do.
Imagine how easy it would have been to be like every other OEM and glue it together and solder everything to the mobo and make it completely unrepairable/unupgradeable. Instead they gave it a removable back and updated it to use torx screws and partnered with iFixIt to ensure longevity out of respect for their consumers.
Imagine how easy it would be to just ignore Denuvo and EULAs and 3rd party accounts, but they force publishers to list them.
They also have an excellent track record for customer support.
They also have an excellent track record for customer support.
Their customer support actually used to really suck. They made a concerted effort to improve it.
More like the EU made them.
Australia made them offer refunds thanks to our consumer law.
And instead of pushing back and doing their best to go around it… they made accommodations to follow those directives.
They’re not perfect angels, but they’re also not malevolent demons either. They tend more towards consumer friendly practices, even if they need a push sometimes, than most others in the field.
Just experienced it this week, spend $30 on a game, asked for refund because the game does not look like screen images. Refunded, no questions asked.
Their policy is to refund games within a specific time period for any reason. Basically you can demo any game in the library. Although I suspect if you did it too often they would flag your account.
I’ve been buying all the new Sony games and then immediately refunding them and posting a bad review because of the PSN bullshit.
Well I did speak in the present tense.
You spoke of their track record, which is something specifically referring to past activities. Sure, their recent track record is good, but going back far enough it was terrible.
But they did improve. Which is why they have a good recent track record. They listened to criticism (and as others have stated) followed regulation to best suit the needs of their customer base.
Post-IPO? Valve is privately held. Which is why they make strategic decisions that stakeholders would never approve of.
I mentioned IPOs as an example of things making a company take a 180°, from “we luuuv customers!” to “customers are things to be milked, not humans to care about”. There are a thousand other possibilities - being bought by another (and more abusive) corporation, being inherited by arseholes and/or fools, or even a change in the mindset of its current owners.
There’s absolutely nothing preventing all those shitty outcomes. Nothing. And when one of them happens, the suckers who “buy” games through the platform - including myself, and probably you - will be shown a middle finger, and hear a moronic “ackshyually u didn’t buy the games lol you licensed them lmao”.
You can’t trust it.
I think you’re both right really. I don’t trust Steam the company I trust Gabe Newell the person. Once he’s retired or passed on they could easily go ipo and begin enshittification.
That’s how publicly traded companies work, profits above all else.
Good thing Valve isn’t publicly traded!
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The way I see it, they are the lesser of two evils. Just because someone isn’t as bad a Microsoft, doesn’t mean that they are forgiven for their sins.
Predatory lootboxes, and not cracking down on CSGO Gambling site are the biggest sins which Valve has committed.
Going beyond that, no clear path forward for when the Steam DRM Client goes offline. I personally have games which I bought on legacy hardware, that no longer runs on that hardware since Steam discontinued support for it. I don’t expect Valve to support all hardware indefinitely, however I can buy the same game from GOG, and install it on my XP and Win 7 machines without issue.
I am certain that there are other issues, and compared to MS they look like a saint. But for me I diversify my game library and get as much of my games DRM Free or on a platform which has a proven track record for supporting not just their current purchases but also legacy ones.
Beat Sony with a stick all you want. Despite the PSP being 21 years old this year, if I can connect my PSP to the internet, I can still download my digital PSP PSM and PS1 games.
How would steam crack down on gambling sites they don’t own and trades they don’t know are linked to those sites?
It uses their API to trade and sell the skins. They are in total control of what happens with them. There are many ways they could stop them, but they don’t want to because it makes them money. They want to be seen acting like they’re trying to stop them, but without actually doing anything impactful.
They could also easily do some analysis of trades and see which accounts are owned by the gambling sites and ban them, and nuke their inventory. They have full access to the data of who traded what when with whom. With some statistical modeling and maybe some fake trades, it’d be easy to figure out. They won’t even try.
I’m not sure they’d want the legal hassle.
As long as Steam allows skins trading these sites will exist. I can’t see them removing this feature from their community because of activity off their platform.
Locking a trading account and nuking the inventory just means that one site will shut down - the operator will likely just set up a new one and a while bunch of users will be angry at Valve.
If enough money is at stake Valve might even find themselves sued by the site operators. “Tortious Interference” is what it’s called here.
If consenting adults enter into agreements outside of Steam, what business is it of Valve’s to interfere?
Legal hassle? How would there be legal hassle? There’s nothing requiring them to allow this to happen. In fact, it’s against the terms of service.
You’re just making up excuses for why they should do nothing, when it’s easily within their power to stop it. They did a lot of work using machine learning to detect hackers in CS. That same thing could trivially detect accounts mass-trading and link them to gambling sites, then block them. If these companies lose enough money, they’d stop popping up.
Most players don’t participate in this, so the vast majority wouldn’t care, and likely would praise them for it.
One answer is quite simple. Not to sell loot boxes.
I mean counter strike and team fortress 2 worked fine and were extremely fun games before they added a virtual slot machine to their games. “they’re just skins” right? If they were given out for free in game it wouldn’t impact the rest of the games experience.
Valve can also prevent the sale of real world money for these items. Especially if it’s been flagged for Gambling.
Or as another stated disable or moderate the usage of their own API on these gambling sites.
