• scaryjelly@lemm.ee
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    5 days ago

    Since recent events, every post like this seems to me like a most-wanted list.

  • taiyang@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    This isn’t a useful metric as it’s obviously bad for retail and service industries, and good for tech simply because of their business models. The median wages are really high when you outsource most of your labor and your actual “employees” are a handful of high level engineers. Spectrum for insurance is scummy but you can’t just hire people in China to do service calls or upkeep infrastructure, ya know?

    Also it doesn’t include ownership. 1:1 with AirBnb is misleading for instance as it’s probably mostly their execs on the team and their compensation is in stake at the company. Their business model also counts everyone as contractors, so there’s that too.

    • leisesprecher@feddit.org
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      4 days ago

      Even in “traditional” Industries it’s iffy.

      If you outsource all your cleaning personnel, who have low paying jobs, you decrease the multiplier, even though nothing actually changed for the better.

    • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
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      4 days ago

      Not to mention that the people doing most of the real labour to get e.g. clothes made and into shops work in sweatshops in poor countries and earn a tiny fraction of these salaries

  • slazer2au@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    Don’t suppose you have more pixels for this image?

    Never mind, my Lemmy app is being weird.

    • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      5 days ago

      I don’t see the image at all on Jerboa lol

      Even going directly to the URL at https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/29140d91-0b42-42b1-9092-4a4c6e59dbe6.png in a clean browser session off a different IP, I get 429 - Too Many Requests in this JSON:

      {"code":"object-request-error","msg":"Invalid status 429 Too Many Requests for Some(\"01/93/a1/c7/6a/8f/7c/d9/b9/a4/352f309d98f9.png\") - {\n \"message\":\"Too many requests\"\n}"}

      Rare instance moment.

    • Mango@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      If you’re using sync, you wanna open a post before clicking to load the pic so you don’t get a lower quality version that’s for thumbnail purposes.

      • taiyang@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        Yes but note the median pay is 300k. Most of the high ratios are retail and most of the low ratios are tech because of labor pay, not CEO. That said, Alphabet must be specific to an exec branch because there’s no way the median is 300k counting all the outsourced labor they likely rely on (like to make Pixel phones).

        • Optional@lemmy.world
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          5 days ago

          I doubt they actually make the phones - don’t they outsource it?

          Plus Alphabet includes Boston Dynamics and other weird things they probably definitely shouldn’t be doing.

          • taiyang@lemmy.world
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            4 days ago

            Just trying to think of examples. Employee labor isn’t much when you outsource everything.

  • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    The ratio between lowest paid and highest paid employee, in all forms of payment and benefits, to all employees (including contractors), should be capped. I’m thinking a ratio somewhere around 1:5 or so.

    Have an employee paid only 20k per year? Congrats on your 100k salary Mr. CEO.

    • golli@lemm.ee
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      4 days ago

      to all employees (including contractors)

      Might aswell just make it a multiple of the minimum wage, because somewhere in the chain there will always be someone scrubbing toilets earning next to nothing. Or you end up incentivizing complex structures that try to avoid this cap somehow.

      That said i don’t think this is the right solution anyways, since it only targets income and not wealth. As long as profit gets made it has to end up somewhere. And i feel like it is much more likely to end up in the owners pockets, than resulting in higher wages. It’s similar to how the salaries of successful actors/athletes are obscene, but the alternative would be that the studio/club just makes more profit.

      So the more important issue would be to improve mechanisms that redistribute money, from whereever large amounts of wealth accumulate. Like a wealth tax or higher inheritance taxes (or just closing all loopholes that help avoid/reduce it).

      However i would definitely also support a higher maximum taxation rate for the super high earners.

      • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        Or you end up incentivizing complex structures that try to avoid this cap somehow.

        They already do that with hiring employees as contractors, which is why I mentioned it. Any employee they hire gets counted.

        That said i don’t think this is the right solution anyways, since it only targets income and not wealth.

        Hence why I said payment in any form. That includes benefits, PTO, stocks, everything. The rich still have other shenanigans they pull, sure. But this would at least solve the problem on a salary level.

        And i feel like it is much more likely to end up in the owners pockets, than resulting in higher wages.

        Agreed, which is why the stock market needs to end. It’s the primary means by which they rob the working class.

        So the more important issue would be to improve mechanisms that redistribute money, from whereever large amounts of wealth accumulate. Like a wealth tax or higher inheritance taxes (or just closing all loopholes that help avoid/reduce it).

        I’d recommend looking into a land value tax system.

    • notfromhere@lemmy.ml
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      5 days ago

      Agreed. Btw it is “paid”. “Payed” is a different word entirely. English is weird.

    • antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      5 days ago

      The government could incentivize this by a tax formula. Highest paid employee divided by lowest paid employee sets the payroll tax rate for the whole business.

      • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        Nah, companies found in violation of this should have their business licenses revoked, and the company dissolved.

        They don’t give a shit about taxes or fines. They will care about the company ceasing to exist.

      • Optional@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        They could, but a lot of idiot children decided not to support the party that would have done that because unnamed randos on the interwebs told them not to. So that’s not going to happen. Again.

        • antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          4 days ago

          Not sure exactly which country you’re referring to, but in the USA the Democratic Party absolutely would not do that, which is precisely why they lost. If they had accepted the popularity of Bernie Sanders in 2016, maybe. But the party decided not to go that direction.

          Their next presidential nominee is probably Gavin Newsom, who grew up in private school and best friends with Oil money billionaires - the Getty family.

    • Phil_in_here
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      5 days ago

      I think 5 is maybe an over-ambitious goal.

      I don’t really mind a 50:1 cap, or even a 100:1 cap. I can understand how experienced leadership of a large scale multinational corporation should be compensated more than 5x the amount of a 16 year old part time cashier in a town of 2200 people.

      Even think about it from an age demographic/experience point of view. How much more should someone make doing the same job for 40 years than the new hire with no experience? In a lot of fields, I don’t feel like it would be unfair for that scale to go 4:1. Now factor that into the consideration of the varying different positions, the ratio has got to be higher.

      And in the face of abhorrent 2100:1 ratios, I think a 100:1 ratio is low enough to make a meaningful difference and high enough that no one can sensibly argue against it.

      • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        I think 5 is maybe an over-ambitious goal.

        Maybe, but I’m OK with being ambitious.

        I can understand how experienced leadership of a large scale multinational corporation should be compensated more than 5x the amount of a 16 year old part time cashier in a town of 2200 people.

        I can’t. Large scale multination corporations shouldn’t exist. But that’s a separate issue ultimately.

        How much more should someone make doing the same job for 40 years than the new hire with no experience? In a lot of fields, I don’t feel like it would be unfair for that scale to go 4:1.

        A company hiring somebody with 40 years of experience should be paying towards the higher end of the 1:5 ratio. It would ensure far more of the wealth goes to those who actually provide value.

    • cm0002@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      Yea, even at the bare minimum federal wage of 7.25 that’s still like 13k/Yr

      • IMongoose@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        They wouldn’t have those employees be full time because then they would need to pay benefits.

        • MutilationWave@lemmy.world
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          4 days ago

          Very true. As a ridiculously underpaid former general manager of a popular pizza place, I can confirm. After the ACA passed I was instructed by my masters to hire more people and give them no more than 25 hours a week. Top performers were given 32 hours a week because we needed to call them in when shit got crazy and they would get close to 40. Nobody gets overtime ever. I worked 50-70 plus all the work I did from home like scheduling and product orders, plus being on call constantly for questions or coverage. All for 36k a year, the federal salary minimum to not get paid overtime.

          Luckily we didn’t have to stick to the 25 hours thing because turnover was already nuts and nobody but the truly desperate will deal with that.

          Speaking of desperation, my wife was in physical therapy school, I walked to work and we had a truly shithole apartment with roaches and bedbugs. I didn’t know I could do better due to untreated mental illness and other things. These bitch motherfuckers want everyone to have the mentality I did.

          I rant about this a lot.

    • enbyecho@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      Brian Chesky, the CEO, gets an annual bonus of around the average of all employees salary. This is completely irrelevant as he is a co-founder and owns 10.6% of the company or around 67 million shares. So at the most recent share price that’s $9.17 billion, at least on paper.

      Such arrangements are common among tech companies.

    • GlendatheGayWitch@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      I know it’s weird, because they have a lot of call center employees that handle various situations. Maybe those aren’t counted in the graphic for some reason, because there’s no way a call center employee is making close a quarter million dollars.

    • xorollo@leminal.space
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      4 days ago

      Let’s talk about how the ‘negligible’ difference in pay of approximately 50k is more than a highly qualified teacher would make with ten years of experience in my state.

  • xeekei@lemm.ee
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    5 days ago

    Doesn’t appear to be any correlation with the success or revenue of the company really. They just do whatever they want.

  • flora_explora@beehaw.org
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    4 days ago

    What does this actually say if most billionaires like Musk or Bezos pay themselves only a symbolic income of about 1$ (if any)?

  • Pasta Dental@sh.itjust.works
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    5 days ago

    As a CEO id be stupid to get a salary. Dividends and stocks are much better tax-wise. Well maybe id get a smaller salary for the advantages in retirement and tax-free accounts and everything, but not much more than whats needed.

    • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      Stock grants are taxed as regular income.

      Edit: downvotes from people who have no idea how stock, compensation, or taxes work, apparently.

        • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world
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          4 days ago

          That is correct. It’s the same as paying taxes on each paycheck, not when your salary is promised.

      • qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website
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        4 days ago

        Yeah people don’t seem to understand taxes wrt stock at all. RSUs are definitely taxed!

        Only thing I can think of is they’re thinking of options? Afaik those can be advantageous, tax-wise, because you are taxed when you exercise, not when they’re granted or when they vest (this is my understanding — I could be wrong).

        • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world
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          4 days ago

          Options are basically just a special price you get to pay for stock. There’s another concept called “stock appreciation rights” in which shares are granted at a given strike price, and taxation only occurs on the price difference upon exercise (sale).

      • howrar
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        4 days ago

        I thought founders usually get all their shares upon founding the company when it’s worth next to nothing. Is that not how it works?

          • howrar
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            4 days ago

            Founders usually end up in C-suite positions. That sounds like what independantiste was thinking about.

    • lud@lemm.ee
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      4 days ago

      I mean, you still have to have some money to survive day to day life.

      I wouldn’t want my entire income to be based on the company’s performance and the whims of the stock market.

    • uis@lemm.ee
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      4 days ago

      Savateev suggests(for director to teacher pay ratio in his education system reform), if I remember correctly, no more than 3 times lowest paid worker in top 80% of highest-paid workers.

        • uis@lemm.ee
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          4 days ago

          He is a mathematician and a youtuber(lectures, solving math problems). He is, uh, not without quirks: says he is religious and says that he thinks current goverment is able to reform education. Either because he doesn’t want to fall from window or because he really thinks so.

          You probably won’t find many references to him on english-speaking sites.

  • De_Narm@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    Even most of the low ones are outrageous. I’d cap that at 5, maybe 10 on a generous day. Including bonuses and stock options.

  • Cris@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    Is the red alphabet logo as in Google’s parent company? I don’t remember that logo being red…