Okay, but they can’t be an enemy of the american public if that same public votes for a president that supports Israel and its genocide.

“Yes, my candidate is Mussolini, but her opponent is Hitler! Clearly a vote for Mussolini is better than a vote for Hitler!”

Why would you be criticising Mussolini if you didn’t secretly want Hitler to win?! I cannot possibly come up with any other explanation. You must be trying to trick us.

Harris was campaigning and bibi knew he had leverage, because the worse it got, the more anti-israel pro-palestine vote she’d lose. Lose-lose-lose situation for Harris, Palestine, anti-israel voters. That the left was not more strategic about this (e.g. Bernie’s stance, which was strategic), I blame on great russian disinfo and agitators, not just shit intrinsic takes from the left.

Wow, I would have thought that Israel was responsible…

Yes, there’s a trolley problem and it seems pretty clear you picked the lane that ends up killing every single Palestinian.

But you’re saying she was going to be better than trump in all this huh

Yup. You got that right.

But it doesn’t matter. I’m not american and I already accepted that we’re heading to what probably means the extinction of our race (i still have some hope that I’m wrong but not that much). So you know wnat? I’m just gonna sit, grab some popcorn and enjoy the ride while he fucks his country over and over while he fucks climate over and over. At least i’ll go knowing that I tried to avoid it, not to accelerate it.

They’re already doing what they want with impunity as evidenced by this being planned out, at this moment, while Joe Biden is president.

New York is host to the second most populous Jewish community, after Tel Aviv, before Jerusalem. That’s a fact, not some antisemitic conspiracy theory.

And now you stand here, introducing a derogatory term because… noone said it? What’s your intention? Make it more popular? Imply that the sentiment against Jewish New York would be any worse than existing sentiment against Israel? One has quaint strings up power poles and plenty of bagels, the other a genocidal maniac and convicted terrorist as minister of national security, I don’t think there’s a competition to be had, there.

The answer to “if you want to live in Zion” is “too bad.”

…or is it that you don’t want any more Jews in NYC?

Legit. Fuck Israel. Fuck Zionism. Fuck apartheid. Fuck the genocide of Palestinians. But also fuck antisemitism.

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Had kamela won she could have doubled down in Israel.

This is ridiculous nonsense. Why would she. The Harris campaign ran on the strategy that she could ignore the voices of Palestinians and their allies during the most vulnerable time for her. Why would she do anything if she was delivered into power. The whole point of her doing that was to prove that she didn’t need support from the antigenocide crowd. Why do you believe she would do anything if we gave her power. All the leverage is gone at that point. You are being delusional.

I voted for Kamala, ya dingus. I just have enough self-reflection to note that her messaging was shit and that there was little difference between the two of them when it came to Palestine. I voted for her because of domestic policy, not foreign policy.

There are lessons to be learned here. And sticking our heads in the sand will not help us learn those lessons. And one of those lessons should absolutely be that, “vote for me. I support genocide, but my opponent supports it EVEN MORE!” is a shit campaign message. Whoever thought of that strategy should be shot.

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No you are the problem. Democrats and Republicans are becoming cult, you can’t assume your responsibilities and blame each other. Both parties are complicit to the genocide and military support data shows that there support for Israel is almost equal. The fact that you defend the imperialist power called NATO who destroyed Afghanistan is crazy and shows that you can’t give a damn about justice

games like EU4 simulate it pretty well

when you first take a territory, it requires infamy. other countries look at you with sideways. you can’t extract the full value out of the land yet. but after a long period of time (upwards of 50 years) it slowly starts to become legitimized. especially as you import settlers and built population centers. after a long enough time, it’s both de facto and de jure yours and if you hold it long enough people will recognize it as yours.

so look what happened with West Bank. when Israel took control of WB in 1967, it was majority Palestinian.

what did they do? first, you import settlers. you give incentives for people to come and populate the area with Jews. you also tacitly endorse the ideology of the settlers, so they do it even without you actively supporting it (so you have some semblance plausible deniability when people call you out)

then, you take the native peoples and you herd them into smaller and smaller pieces of land. you restrict movement (like through their “jewish only roads” and the many checkpoints through the WB) (edit: sound similar to what Americans did to another native peoples by chance? almost like it was a blueprint)

fast forward to today, and now 63% of the land area of West Bank is majority Jewish. The Palestinian population is still higher, but they are forced into smaller and smaller pieces of low-value land. In about 50 years or so they’ve managed to turn a majority Arab area into a majority Jewish.

this gives them legitimacy. there’s no way some future government, even if they wanted to be more generous, would ever give up majority Jewish land.

I’d say the entire process is gonna take ~75 years or so. we’re almost to its conclusion. they’re gonna replicate their WB strategy in Gaza, but since Gaza is much smaller and they’re being much more brutal about it, it’ll go much faster

I think the best way to become more resistant to propaganda is to read and understand history. If you only pay attention to this conflict since Oct 7th and you are getting your entire media diet from certain dubious sources, you don’t stand a chance.

but if you deep dive and actually look at the history. look at the beginning of the state of Israel, look at the early leaders, what they were saying, what they believed. look at the process of occupation, what the policies have been (ethnic cleansings population transfers, restriction of movement, blockade of gaza, destruction of airports, killing of journalists, etc)

then you will have a more cynical eye when certain people try to twist and bend the truth. and you will be more accurate in predicting where the ball will land.

You are ignoring how people actually think and live. You view voting as a utilitarian choice. Utilitarianism is not the only ethical system in existence. In fact, utilitarianism is exactly how histories worst autocrats justified their atrocities. Hitler himself ran on a platform of doing painful things that, he at least claimed, simply had to be done. The Holocaust itself was justified entirely from a “lesser of two evils” perspective. Hitler just had to convince the broader German populace that killing all the Jews was a necessary evil. Kill all the Jews or have the world taken over by godless Communists. That was Hitler’s central “lesser of two evils” message.

This is the fatal flaw of appeals to the lesser of two evils approaches. Yes, you “achieve more” by picking the lesser evil. But from many ethical perspectives, if both choices are objectively evil, and you can’t stop either, your only ethical choice is to not support either side. You’re still supporting evil, even if it’s the lesser evil.

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That’s his opinion. The fact and not opinion is that the biggest military deal for Israel was made during Obama. He also blocked a resolution condemning illegal settlement. Neither a Biden or Harris ever condemned that

North Gaza is being emptied as we speak. Ethnic cleansing does not require full murder of a population.

And who constitute the Congress? Oh yeah it’s Republicans and Democrats which both voted for the 10 years deal with Israel. Even if the president can’t do anything in action, he can still condemn and criticize the Congress decision.

Bingo. These morons only care during election cycles

So how would you describe Gaza during the past 6 months? Everything in rubbles, hospitals barely functioning or not at all. People starving to death while the US still supplies the bomb to murder them more actively…

Especially the past month that Israel is just straight up ethnically cleansing northern Gaza withour any pretense left, murdering American citizens, attacking UN troops…

There is absolutely no indication that Harris would have turned things around. Because the points to turn things around kept passing and passing and she made a point instead to declare here steadfast support for Israel.

There is no lesser of two evil in supporting a genocide

Probably because they’re still razing Gaza and Lebanon currently along with fighting in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, and soon Iran. They don’t want to stretch our US resources too thin.