Big ups to those people who “voted against genocide”.
Special shout-out to the folks that voted third party because “my state will be blue”
I thought my state would go blue. Went out to vote anyway and voted blue. Brought my spouse out to vote as well. Our state did not go blue. Country is fucked
folks that voted third party because “my state will be blue”
Admittedly not all the votes are in, but…
- Pennsylvania - Trump up by 130k votes, Jill Stein got 33k votes
- Michigan - Trump up by 84k votes, Jill Stein got 45k votes
- Wisconsin - Trump up by 28k votes, Jill Stein got 12k votes
Are all Jill Stein votes from protest voters? Nah, there are diehard Green supporters out there.
Are there other 3rd party candidates? Of course, but how many RFK (more votes than Stein in WI) voters could she have converted? Almost none.
This was her blue wall road to victory, show me the electoral path to victory ruined by third party voters who would have otherwise voted Democrat.
This election was lost by people not showing up to vote. Trump is sitting at almost 72M votes right now compared to 74M in 2020. Harris is only at 67M now, compared to Biden’s 81M in 2020. While there are still votes to count, there aren’t 15M votes left to count.
Whether it was lack of interest, protest, or whatever reason, 10% of voters stayed home this year.
My election registration got canceled three times this year. The last two times it was because of a “duplicate”, and they were counting my canceled registrations as duplicates. I have no idea if my ballot got counted, or if it was discarded.
I vote blue in one of those red states…
Similar here actually. I usually try to vote by mail, but by the time I finally got registeration and residency handled after 2 online registrations and two visits to the elections office, early voting was over, so I had to go to the polls on election day
Write to the white house and ask them to investigate it as fraud. Because there was shenanigans pulled in red states for that.
Americans overseas had their ballots challenged in Pennsylvania and there is still a lawsuit over that.
I blame the Stein voters exactly as much as I blame the people staying at home. And neither as much as the people who voted for Trump.
And you lay absolutely zero blame at the feet of the Democratic Party itself?
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A good chunk of biden voters then were shepherded in by Bernie since Biden ended up compromising with Bernie for the transition.
Imagine if Harris threw a bone to the left. Those are some of the 15 million who stayed home.
“Admittedly not all the votes are in, but…” you’ll pretend to make a point with vote counts anyway.
I am so fucking sick of all this shit.
- Pennsylvania - 98.3% Reporting
- Michigan - 98.7% Reporting
- Wisconsin - 99% Reporting
These states have been called for Trump. The remaining outstanding vote will not impact this result. The remaining vote is not going to come in all for Jill Stein or other third party candidates. The point that protest votes for third party candidates did not rob Harris of an electoral college victory will stand once 100% of the vote is in.
Okay, now you’ve supplied enough information to validate what you’re saying. Thanks.
We don’t have 15 million outstanding votes. They said that in their post.
Unless the dems can pull 15 million votes out of their ass, Trump won.
No state had enough third party votes to flip red to blue had they all gone blue, so can we give this a rest?
The DNC failed, plain and simple.
Wisconsin and Michigan.
And Pennsylvania and Georgia. The so-called swing states really took a wild swing this time.
Got me there, though if you look and tally only the left candidates who might’ve actually gone for Harris otherwise it’s still not true.
And in any case, she still loses even if she got these states.
But they wanna blame someone who doesn’t impact anything! Why blame a bad campaign when you can blame 0.03% of the voters!
It was a good campaign. Maybe it could have been even better, sure, but the amount of Monday night quarterbacking in here is silly.
The only thing I can question about it, I’m not even sure about.
The problem wasn’t anything the campaign did. The problem was that “did joe Biden drop out” was trending on Google the day of the election. Tell me how to reach those people.
Do you think there weren’t enough ads? Not enough door knocking? What exactly, would you have them do?
No it was an objectively bad campaign. Harris should have run as a change candidate and distanced herself from Biden. That was the whole point of getting him to drop out. He was less popular than Trump
I don’t think you can educate people who learned Biden dropped out on election night, those people are too stupid to vote. Especially since my YouTube for weeks after Harris was the nominee, I got a lot of donation ads staring her, not once mentioning Biden.
I don’t know if more ads would have gotten her a bigger spotlight, but I do know that its political non-sense to claim to help those who fascist targets, then ignore the calls of those who fascist targets, and then buddy up with subtler-fascists like Dick and Liz Chaney.
Its like she was trying to say “You go along with this, you’re never going to vote for Trump, he hates you, I don’t.” And she was right, they didn’t vote for Trump as he hates them.
No state had enough third party votes to flip red to blue had they all gone blue, so can we give this a rest?
Third party votes were pretty much at their average. Except in Deerborn Michigan, but that’s still not enough to flip Michigan and I can’t blame Muslim voters there from being pissed.
They should be pissed. We all should be pissed.
I actually think people who think any part of politics is “plain and simple” are the real problem.
“The real problem” sounds pretty plain and simple that.
Seriously though what are you saying? What’s the point of that statement?
They failed, that’s plain and simple. The cause behind that? Probably more complicated.
Yeah, and since it sounds pretty much that way, it definitely is that way and you win the internet argument, right?
I think the main problem in discussing most issues is that people oversimply them. Memes and meme-level thinking don’t get to the essence of an issue, they just pretend to by expressing a single point of view, reinforcing the false belief that the whole issue is plain and simple, and excusing people for not bothering to exert their brains much before the scroll to the next item in their feed.
What if my state is California?
Who did you vote for?
It doesn’t matter. Point is, some states will, without a question, vote blue.
So you voted third party and don’t want to admit you helped Trump win. Nice
What a dumb conclusion to make. I didn’t vote because I legally can’t. My point is that some states are most definitely always blue. California is one of them.
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Taking the data from here and throwing it in a spreadsheet, Trump got more votes than everyone else combined, including the Libertarian party, RFK Jr, and Write-ins.
Looking at that chart, she would have won in Wisconsin and gotten their ten electoral votes.
What does it look like for the rest of the states?
Across the country, it was Trump: 71,825,780 Everyone else: 69,303,000
It says at the top of the page it was last updated a day ago, but I kind of doubt the numbers will change too dramatically.
67m for Harris to 72m (rounded up) on the BBC; it was really not close eh.
Biden got 81.2 million.
How the fuck are people not voting. After all that.
Amnesia.
How the fuck are people not voting.
Massive voter suppression, and propaganda.
The other person was making the point that you can’t do it by total popular vote, you have to do it by state and then look at their electoral college votes.
But the electoral college is dumb and pointless. This is the first time a Republican won the popular vote since 2004, or since 1988 if you don’t want to count an incumbent victory. That alone should tell you plenty about the state of the country right now.
But the electoral college is dumb and pointless
And its also how a president is elected in the United States, or 2016 would have gone a bit differently.
Your comment is dumb and pointless, yet here it is.
See how far your logic goes?
It’s dumb and pointless, but it’s literally the way a president is elected today. We have had many instances of people being elected president who didn’t win the popular vote. So if you want to try to figure out if third party candidates caused Trump to get elected, you have to look at it state by state.
But how do you count “didn’t vote”? And what about “voted on other parts but not for President because genocide or whatever”? That second group might be countable, but the first is like proving a negative
You probably look at how many citizens there are, and look at how many voted. Then do some magic math.
But how do you count “didn’t vote”?
I didn’t, that’s voter turnout and probably won’t be fully available till all the votes are counted. If you’re impatient though, here’s the washington post comparing 2024 voter turnout to 2020.
Honestly, it doesn’t matter, even if every single 3rd party voter went for Harris, Trump still wins
Now count those that didn’t vote at all.
Some of them tried but state shenanigans prevented their ballot from counting.
Maybe the Democratic party should have been better st convincing these people that didn’t vote, instead of alienating them on both the economy and foreign policy.
But sure, go out and scream at people for not supporting Genocide and for feeling worse off financially after Biden. I’m sure that will convince a lot of people to vote for your party at the next election.
The US is really the only country where, the more people despise the party that they vote for, theore they are told they are protecting “democracy” and “freedom”. Freedom and democracy for who ? Clearly not for the average person that felt completely left out by the only 2 electable parties.
Hope those people enjoy what trump has to offer them for the next four years, and possibly longer.
Also- no one supported genocide. You can stop now.
You won.
If voting for a party (and maybe even telling others to vote for them) is not supporting their current action (especially when the candidate that is running is currently in power) than I don’t know what your definition of “support” is.
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But how else will they blame anyone but themselves?
The meme is literally how else.
Yeah I heard halo polish is on sale at Walmart, they should check it out.
Utterly bizarre. I expected Trump might squeak out an electoral win, but the popular vote as well? Thanks everyone who stayed the fuck home. You sat by as fascism was ushered in to the US.
Same. I’m not sure if I’m more… “Ok” with this? We should still abolish the electoral college, but we were shafted by the American people this time (and the propaganda machine making things worse). It’s the first time since I turned 18 that the GOP actually won the popular vote… Sigh
Abolishing the electoral college would require a constitutional amendment, and isn’t even necessary. Passing the National Popular Vote law in a few more states will guarantee that the electoral college always follows the national popular vote. This law has already been passed by 17 states + DC, with a total of 209 electoral votes - already 3/4 of the way there, only 61 more votes needed. Go to the site to see if it already passed in your state.
Bold of you to expect there will be another election.
Now project 25 will swing into action. Then queue all those impacted who voted for the arsewipe to gasp “but he’s hurting the wrong people!”
There will be an election, but Trump will decide who’s eligible in the even-more-controlled opposition.
I heard about that, I just don’t know who else can join the coalition. It might be easier to do it as an amendment if there a massive shift in power over the next decade (and I shudder to think what that’d be that was so upsetting or so lethal that the entire landscape changes to Dems having a super majority).
The NPV only needs states with 61 more electoral votes. In 7 states totaling 74 votes it has already passed half their legislatures (state house or senate but not both). So it’s actually a lot closer than starting from scratch with a constitutional amendment, which would need approval from 3/4 of all states.
Any idea which states might fit the bill?
I don’t remember offhand but if you are interested the site I linked lists the 17 states where it has passed, and the 7 states where it has passed half of their legislature.
I’m on board for this. But with current SCOTUS, I don’t think this would hold up.
And if it did hold up, I think they would also determine that state governments could supercede the will of the people in that particular state in ANY situation which is also scary.
Generations of those who gave everything for our country are rolling
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All votes are not counted yet. There’s still a chance he won’t get the popular vote. A tiny chance, but still a chance…
There’s a bigger likelyhood Harris wins the electoral college than the popular vote, but both are pretty unlikely.
Big thanks to all the Americans who voted in favor of another trump presidency. He couldn’t have won without them.
Like every election, only about 1/3 of eligible voters did. I will never again listen to a single fucking thing people who didn’t vote or those who threw theirs away on a 3rd-party candidate have to say.
There are people in fascist authoritarian countries (incoming in 3, 2, 1…) who would love to vote and have it matter. They would even choose to die for it…
You really should listen to them though. They are telling you exactly what they want.
Ignoring them and then being surprised and mad they didn’t show up wasn’t the play. And it will continue not being the play.
What are you actually talking about? See, this is the exact disconnect I’m referencing. “Listen to them”? How can I, when they have voluntarily made themselves voiceless. Say what you will about the maga freaks, at least they believe in something and do the bare minimum for their cause by voting.
I completely understand being disillusioned with the election process or even thinking bOtH SiDeS are the same, but… In an election for President, Senators, House and local Representatives, ballot measures, etc, if you’re eligible to vote and don’t, you’re part of the problem. Even if you’re okay with the status quo for yourself, children, friends, family, and vulnerable people, you’re still taking a large risk in such a close election as it’s a transitional time and no one knew what the exact results would be…
I know that’s quite a rant. But all I’m really saying is they have no right to complain after sitting on the sidelines when it mattered, and I simply won’t listen to a thing they say now…
Why would anyone vote for the Democratic Party ?
Like sure, you need to be racist and almost a Nazi to vote for the Republican Party but what did the Democrats bring to the table ?
Nothing, Kamala was campaigning on nothing because she told everyone she was going to be like Biden. By looking at polls you will we that people are feeling economically worse off right now that 4 years ago. Biden did this, the Democrats did this, if they wanted to win they would have run a different candidate (or actually done the primaries) that would become a symbol for change.
But instead they just decided, undemocratically, to run the VP, the one person other than Biden that is responsible for the policies of the last 4 years. And then Kamala H. even said to people at rallies that she was going to be like Biden !? Thats crazy, it really makes you wander if the Democratic Party even cares about winning or if they are just controlled opposition at this point. After what they did to Bernie Sanders twice, I think we all know has things really are.
Also let’s remember that Harris also decided that she would campaign in favor of Genocide ! How crazy is that, the party supposedly on the left was already completely supporting Israel and they said they were going to be supporting them.
But unlike the Republicans, K. Harris would also say some empty words about how bad killing Palestinians was. Then she would obviously reassure everyone that she still wanted to support Israel until the end, because she can’t risk people confusing her for an actual leftist.
After all they were trying to convince this inexistent moderate suburban white republican that actually wants to vote Dems. And for that they abandoned their whole base.
Trump is going to be worse ? Yes, for sure. Did Kamala Harris offer any alternative, anything at all to convince people to go out and vote ? Did she actually convince people she would be more than just slightly less evil ? No, she did not.
Also if you go back and listen to her plans for immigration and the border, there is literally no difference from how she talks and how a Republican talks.
That’s why she lost. She didn’t care about the Democratic voters, and for this reason they didn’t show up. It is up to the political party to convince people of their policy. Democracy dies when you can’t vote for what’s important to you, because at that point, why even vote ? The politicians don’t care about you anyway.
Blaming voters is wrong, it is the fault of the Democratic Party and it deserve to loose every election until the reallign with their voters. Until they propose to them popular policies and show interest in their support.
Trump didn’t get more votes than 2020.
And despite that he still got millions of votes. Millions of Americans want this. We’re a country of terrible people.
Hey now. We’re only half full of terrible people. Some of us did our best to do the right thing.
More than half the country if you count the people who voted for him and the people who didn’t vote.
Don’t forget the spoiler voters.
Even if every single 3rd party voter went to her, she still loses
They didn’t spoil anything.
Half full of terrible registered voter people.
Hear, hear. Truly terrible people. It’s like half of my countrymen are the people from Always Sunny.
It doesn’t matter. You are ignoring the rot at the core. Even if people turned out and kamala won - it Trump should have broken the Republican party. It should not have been a competition.
trump voters don’t make any* deflections on who they are. the cruelty IS what they vote for. it’s not gonna break the republican party, it’s what they’ve been asking for. Trump just tapped into it. can’t do anything about those fuckers and trying isnt worth it.
I want to look at the people who just sat this round out because it wasn’t exciting and wouldnt really harm them. going back to “this isnt who we are” as a culture and pleading with them is not gonna work.
I’m not sure that statement can be verified at this point in time.
It’s close though. Big shift (so far) is 10 million ish fewer for Harris
They haven’t finished counting the votes yet. Unless you are somehow comparing to the exact point in the count 4 years ago, this type of analysis is very premature. Except even that would be a bad idea because covid made things weird in 2020.
It’ll be a little while until we get a good handle on turnout. Until then don’t read too much into it.
Alright! So Palestine is free now, right guys?..right?
Palestine is freed… from existing.
The genocide will finally stop!
Because there won’t be anyone left to kill
Of course they are! The non-voters and 3rd party voters did exactly what they said they’d do to free Palestine and now It’s all flowers and hugs as far as the eye can see over there!
Don’t mind the big sign in right in the center of their city that reads “Future Site of Giant Crater”, that’s nothing at all to worry about. Just focus on all the hugs!
Everyone in north Gaza will be dead by new years because of the intentional famine. And it will happen completely under Biden without Trump even getting to the White House.
The community is literally dying and all you can do is throw insults.
Let’s meet back here on Jan 1st so I can say you’re full of shit directly to you.
I’m done arguing with you on this.
The UN isn’t lying when they said north Gaza has had no food delivered for weeks and the IDF isn’t lying when they said anyone left alive there who didn’t evacuate is an enemy combatant. The “Generals strategy” is playing out in Israel.
We’re all pissed that Trump won but don’t take it out on others who are also suffering alongside you.
I said I’m done arguing with you on this. You keep coming back for more. Walk away.
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I’m not playing the “but you keep responding to my trolling” game with you. I told you to drop it.
Now drop it.
Ima be blunt. They would treat me exactly the same as republicans will, because im a trans woman so fuck me. Who it is does actually matter
If Kamala lost the election because she wasn’t in support of Palestine then why didn’t she just support Palestine?
Maybe make your one issue election about your country and not others? And I mean if you really cared about Palestine, you wouldn’t have stood off to the side and let Trump through, cause now you’ll get to watch the complete annihilation of Palestine, and even more of your tax dollars will go towards the genocide
With Kamala you had someone you could work with and who responds to bad press and would have buckled to your demands. Now you got Trump who gives zero fucks about what you don’t like
I’m not American and you didn’t answer my question.
If pro-palestinian one issue voters lost Kamala the election, why didn’t she appease them? Why are the voters to blame and not the democrats?
It wasn’t the one issue, it was just the one that stuck with people who needed an excuse to not show up and vote for a woman.
Im an Israeli anarchist, but I’m still going to try my best at explaining.
American liberals won’t ever appease leftists, or minorities, because they expect subservience and loyalty for nothing in return. In so doing they play right into the fascists’ hands, trying to serve right wingers who already made their minds up in voting for a fascist.
It is very likely not only more leftists but more Muslim and arabic people would’ve voted for dems if it weren’t for dems insisting that kamala should keep supporting israel and that criticism is amount to betrayal.
As much as i despise electoralism, being an anarchist and all, it’s very simple to understand how and why this happened even from an electoralist perspective, makes one think maybe american liberals just don’t want to understand.
And before anyone says I’m talking out of my ass about american libs, as if i don’t know them because I don’t live in the states: Know that they walk and talk just the same as israeli liberals, and these empty platitudes and threats of being a traitor are the same as i get at home.
Because in the coalition of Democratic voters and donors, there are also those who unconditionally support Israel, and they outnumber those who support the Palestinians.
That’s not why she lost the election. The whole “Democrats support genocide!” meme was a propaganda technique to suppress Dem voter turnout. It had an effect, but on its own, I don’t think it was decisive. Sadly, most Americans, including Democrats and progressive, don’t give a shit about the Palestinians, except to cry crocodile tears. And the vast majority of the Republicans are fine with further expanding the genocide.
I suppose that is one way to misread what was typed. GJ
What are you saying then?
I already said it…it isn’t my job to make you read it better. If you actually want to know then you will try again and do better, if not then you can shout into the void until you feel better.
sick bro
Yeah, both parties went down from 2020 counts. We literally had something like 18m or 20m who didn’t show up combined.
Wild stuff. Oh well, we rode this roller-coaster once, we ride it again. Maybe this round we don’t lose 2% of our population?
I’ll bet we never find out how many were denied the ability to vote because of registration purges, bomb threats, and other malicious voter suppression.
But the fact that states both voted for abortion access at the state level and then also voted in all Republicans who will pass a national ban shows the voting population is stupid enough that this was the likely outcome anyway.
Fuck this country.
I think the Republican voters are to stupid or just in denial that Congress would ever vote for an abortion ban, even though they’ve clearly signaled they would. My boss is very right wing and last night he said to me that he thought it was weird all the commercials he saw for Sherrod Brown here in Ohio mentioned protecting abortion when it’s legal here. When I said a nation ban would supercede our state constitution he just straight told me Congress would pass a national ban.
I literally heard an interview with a woman who said she voted Republican because, on the one hand, abortion “isn’t that big of a deal” and ought to be left up to the states, but on the other, “doctors shouldn’t be allowed to abort babies after they’re born.”
So this person thinks that doctors are murdering babies… and that should be allowed on a state by state basis. Which… boy oh boy, I’m not sure what to even do with a mind that works that way.
I saw a comment earlier from a person who thinks abortion is chopping up a baby inside the womb and then sucking out the pieces.
Nah, those are rookie numbers. Gotta pump those numbers up. And they have a whole playbook ready for it this time, so things are gonna get interesting and tragic sooner than later.
Bonus points that if we make through, we can look forward to new exciting wars about water resources and inhospitable climate problems
How about 60% down the road strictly due to climate change
Maybe this round we don’t lose 2% of our population?
Definitely not.
It will be much higher than that this time.
Honestly, I’m praying for another pandemic. This world is so broken that it needs a reset.
Ænema
Ill see you down in Arizona bay
I’m not seeing turnout down by 20m. Where are you seeing this data? Note, we haven’t even finished counting all the votes.
Admittedly, I was expecting there to be overwhelmingly high turnout and there wasn’t that from what I’ve seen.
The dude won the popular vote. I’m sure a lot of the shady bullshit that happened all around the country to suppress voting inflated his lead a little bit but I don’t think it was substantial enough to explain this.
Nearly every news outlet has reported record voter turnout, but look at the vote counts from 2020 vs this year.
Wait until all the ballots are counted. Ballots still being counted aren’t in those totals but, obviously, they finished counting 2020. Shit, California is still like 60% counted at this point. And they’re at 10 million votes counted… that’s like 6.5 million more votes just estimating CA.
Yes, a Very Special Thanks to the morally pure angels who refused to vote for Kamala Harris because they were standing on high ground about some issue they disliked her on. Well done, fuckheads.
It’s kamala’s fault tho /s
It really was (or at least the Democratic party’s fault). If you take every single third party voter, assign them to Kamala, she still loses.
The real problem here is that people needed to be convinced that voting was worth it when Trump was a candidate. How the fuck do you even reach someone with such a pathetic lack of concern for the world? Seriously you people think if she vowed to stop Israel, magically these dip shit knuckle dragging morons would’ve jumped at the chance to vote for her. Millions of people told us they give zero fucks. And fuck them for that.
American voters in general dgaf about things that don’t affect them. Israel is irrelevant to your median American voter.
Yeah I agree. After this result you cannot argue that Americans in general give a flying fuck about their neighbor. It’s fucking pathetic. Zero faith in America, maybe humanity, left here.
When you lose an election this badly, people are clearly not buying you’re selling.
But damn I did not expect so many people to sit out against the guy who did the coup and amongst all the other shit. If there is any light ahead, I think it’s that this L forces the Democratic Party to lean back left with their campaign promises, and whatever power they have left to affect policy.
They are fucking incapable of learning this.
Bernie polled great against Trump but they snubbed him for Hillary and we lost because of it.
The only reason Biden won was because he wasn’t Trump and we were tired of him at that point.
Kamala had a chance to swing a little more left but continued to try to court moderate conservatives and the suburbs instead.
They just can’t get it through their heads that: Trump and maga are winning as a reaction of “fuck the system”. This mostly stems from corporations and the filthy rich not being taxed enough and us not spending enough on social programs. That energy could have been captured and utilized by running a leftist.
But instead we get milquetoast business as usual bullshit
If there is any light ahead, I think it’s that this L forces the Democratic Party to lean back left with their campaign promises, and whatever power they have left to affect policy.
John Kerry? Is that you?
I think it’s that this L forces the Democratic Party to lean back left with their campaign promises, and whatever power they have left to affect policy.
Yeah, that’s what everyone thought after 2016 as well.
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When are you expecting an election to happen where you can vote for this party?
And with what funding will they rub a campaign if not from PACs
Get started
If they go far left they’ll lose all backing and funding, making them completely useless. It’s just the way the system is built. I’m Canadian but I see you guys had a choice to pick a bad but fixable administration, and instead just let the fascist through. I mean you can chide the Democrats all you want for the result, but it was the left who sat out and it’s those same people who are gonna suffer
Bernie Sanders set records for both 2016 and 2020.
The number of Democratic voters is reported to be around 49 million. (link) As of 9 a.m., Vice President Kamala Harris had 66.5 million votes to Trump’s 71.56 million. (link)
Plenty of the left showed up, in 2020 biden got 81,283,501 in the popular vote. That’s near 15 million disenchanted voters who didn’t return to the polls for this administration. But let’s blame the 15 million people, surely they must all be wrong and not the DNC’s strategy or anything.
Meeting Arab American voters is not “far left.” Biden actively diverted his campaign stops in Michigan to avoid meeting them and Harris campaign refused to let Palestinian-Americans endorse her on camera at the DNC.
It’s nor far left to meet Palestinian-Americans and Lebanese Americans who lost loved ones in bombings. Biden routinely met with Israeli-Americans in the White House and family members of hostages and posted photos with them on his instagram. Meeting just ONE Arab-American family is something he never did, and saying that would be a far left thing to do is frankly offensive.
yall really think democrats learn from this shit? you born yesterday?
That genocide is gonna stop any day now
Didn’t you hear? All Palestinians got a personal check for $1 million straight from trump himself.
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What a repugnant response
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So clever. Not a great speller though. LOoSeR in basically every comment.
Hey, at least Palestine won’t be a stumbling block next election. 1 state solution it is I guess, sigh
Trump is going to have/help Israel just erase Gaza and the Palestinians as a people, there will be no need for any “solution”. And this is apparently what all these people sitting out wanted in the end. Hope they enjoy the view from their high horse.
Yeah, that’s what I meant. Its all just going to be Israel and settlers
Nah he may keep it around so the from the river to the sea crowd can screech at the dems
If you choose not to vote and you’re not happy about the election outcome, well that’s your choice.
when does the candidate become responsible for their own turnout
As long as money is in politics, never.
We can always blame someone but the candidate who failed a popularity contest.
Pretty sure Trump once again spent less…
Lying is cheap, especially when the media just repeats your rallies without issue.
The moment trump got free press in 2016 was the worst point. They could have ignored him and we would have been doing Clinton vs Cruz.
Truth is literally free…
He got press because Clinton wanted it that way and he was the candidate, you can’t just not cover them.
He wasn’t always the nomation. It should have been:
“Wow Trump is trying to run. Weird. Anyways, moving on.”
You look at all the people giving “commentary” as they play his full speeches of racism and go “lol no one will listen to that”. When clearly a lot of networks covering an (at the time) niche candidate gave him more attention.
Also, lying is cheap. Investigating the truth costs time and labor. I can just say “The president is actually always mind controlled by Jews who are actually aliens” and it will take reasonable people longer to explain why that’s stupid, or look into why someone says it.
You don’t have to buy a sycophant’s vote.
to be fair, the other candidate only had a few months. Biden is largely to blame.
“If liberals are so fucking smart why do they lose so goddamn always?”
- Will McAvoy “The Newsroom”
I don’t think it’s fair to blame voters when it’s the politician’s job during s campaign to convince people they’re worth voting for.
Adopting unpopular centrist policies and aligning more and more with centrist Biden’s policies as the campaign went on is just going to fill voters with apathy.
The Democrats, once again, didn’t give us a candidate to vote for, only one to vote against. And I think the American people are sick of that carrot-stick routine, the Dems need to actually adopt popular policies.
And the establishment Dems are going to fight that tooth and nail.
Why did you need to be convinced to vote against Trump?
We didn’t. Most people did. Candidates running for office are a popularity contest. Biden has low approval ratings, Harris said she’s Biden and wouldn’t change most polices.
Trump is much much worse, and I voted for Harris in California despite knowing it didn’t change how North Carolina or Iowa could have gone.
At some point “I’m not Trump” gets tired and going “I’m just like the guy in office who was so unpopular he dropped out, but I will give Republicans what they want on border policy and appoint them to my cabinet” reads more like Diet Trump than “I will give you policies that sway people away from fascism.”
Even a single life less harmed is worth it for that vote. People clearly arent that ethically committed if they needed to be convinced to vote against this
I voted for Harris. Roughly 60% of American voters who are eligible don’t vote.
Harris needed to convince those voters that she was either worth voting for, or Trump was worth voting against.
She failed to convince them of either, so they stayed home, along with 14 million Dem voters she failed to convince to vote blue like they did in 2020.
How was anyone not already convinced to vote against Trump again? Its not like he changed in four years
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You have every right to be angry, but your anger is pointed at the wrong people. Just like the elite divide the masses with bullshit culture wars, the Democratic party elite want you to blame your fellow voters rather than their unpopular platform and abysmal campaign.
If you can vote, you’re a fucking adult. stop acting like a fucking god damned spoiled child.
I’ve seen this attitude repeated ad nauseum these last few weeks, from people discussing Harris with conflicted undecided voters. And your attitude and aggression is exactly what all of them received, and yet you all wonder why people may have stayed home?
People were vocal about their complaints regarding the Democrat’s platform, and they were ignored. If democracy is so important, why the fuck couldn’t the Democratic party adopt more progressive policies?!
Like, apparently it’s completely reasonable to expect people to do what you say with no promise of even addressing their concerns, nevermind actually addressing, but it’s completely unreasonable to just choose not to participate in the system?
You’re not entitled to someone’s vote, regardless of the circumstances. Stop blaming your fellow countrymen and women for not feeling represented, and start screaming at the party who fucking refused to represent them.
Stop blaming your fellow Americans for the Democrats running a platform so unpopular, 14 million Democrats that voted in 2020 chose to stay home.
Stop blaming your fellow Americans for the DNC hiding Biden’s mental acuity issues for well over a year, humiliating himself (and our country) on stage at his debate before hastily cramming a candidate the party didn’t have a say in, and running her on policies that their constituents were vocally against.
As a trans woman, you’re damn right I’m fucking terrified, and I’m fucking angry.
But my anger is at the Democratic party, who decided that spending decades appeasing the Republicans and giving the American people nothing that they’ve been promised, who knew the consequences of this election and decided a 2016 rerun was the only viable option, who paraded Republican after Republican across the DNC stage while snubbing Palestinian Democrats from speaking, and then sending Bill Clinton to lecture the electorate about why Israel has the right to genocide Palestine.
The Democratic party had fascism at the gates, and passed all responsibility onto their voting base instead of checks notes listened to their fucking constituents.
So don’t get angry at your disillusioned and apathetic neighbor, they’re a symptom of the system being unrepresentative of the people for so many years.
Direct your anger at the DNC, demand they start listening to their base, demand that they start trying to garner non-voters with popular policies instead of moving further right to appeal to moderate Republicans.
Or better yet, send them letters regularly, like I plan to do, reminding them that all of the awfulness the American people are living through is a direct result of their entitlement and hubris. Maybe throw in their that they could probably get elected if they actually listened to the American people and ran on policy that reflected what they want.
But that’s probably too radical, let’s just keep blaming the electorate for wanting to participate in a system that represent them, not one that runs on “Please, we promise, last time we’re delaying fascism/the other guy, for realz for realz this time, we’ll totally enact all the laws, just give us more money you don’t have and give us four more years.” But, I’m clearly not as educated and smart as the people running the DNC, I mean, I haven’t lost 4 out of the last 7 elections trying to run the same playbook everytime,
They just have to run a candidate people want to vote for, not a candidate people have to vote for. But they won’t, because the DNC seems to think they know what people need better than they do. And their voting results this year clearly show that…
A reasonable person votes against the enemy after a certian point, even if that means electing a fucking banana. Why did you need to convinced to vote against Trump? Why wasnt that a given? One of you answer us that please
A reasonable person understands running the same strategy over and over and expecting different results is literally the definition of insanity.
But it’s perfectly ok for the DNC to trot out nothing but the status quo for their voters? After over a decade, they can’t promise anything beyond “not fascism” to their voters and the rest of the population?
And I already answered you: Harris needed to convince voters to vot for her, or against Trump. That’s a politicians job during a campaign, and she failed miserably.
So now explain to me why the average voter has to keep swallowing a shit sandwich, but the political party that keeps failing using the same failed strategy, why don’t they have to change? Why is it so unreasonable for them to adopt more popular, progressive policies that voters actually want?
I’ll wait, you can go ahead and explain that.
People weren’t happy so the DNC booted Biden and put in Harris who is a strong candidate given the situation.
Still the fickle left wasn’t happy and over ten million voters who voted Biden before wouldn’t turn out for her.
I wouldn’t blame the democrats for going harder right now to both eat away at the republican’s support and target the people who actually turn out to vote.
Trump got less votes in 2024 than 2020.
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How much did voter purges and other voter-suppression measures contribute to the lower turnout?
Do you think it accounted for the 14 million Dem voters who voted in 2020 but stayed home in 2024?
I doubt it.
your response is tone-deaf and meaningless.
this election was an armed robbery and 20 million witnesses just watched it happen because they wanted to “teach the victim a lesson.” how fucked up is that?
I blame the DNC, I blame them for dragging us to this point.
I blame the RNC, I blame them for pushing us to this point.
But most of all, I blame Americans that idly stood by and let this happen. You had the opportunity to swing everything blue. had the opportunity to pressure them for four more years. had the opportunity to set the stage for some real change in 2028.
you fucks sold us up the fucking river for your pride and arrogance.
I’m fucking mad as hell, and you want to tell me where I need to direct my anger? Fuck your arrogant idealistic dream. You want me to direct my anger? How about I direct my fucking anger at you? The one who’s trying to fucking manipulate me into attacking their opposition. I fucking know who I’m mad at.
fuck you, and fuck those 20 million Americans that willfully withheld their votes. I hope every single one of you chokes on your arrogance and pride when you’re fucking starving in the camps those monsters are going to put us in.
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This is just ridiculous, it was not an “armed robbery.” You don’t need to exaggerate to try and make your misguided point.
Its called a metaphor
How fucked up is it to demand someone’s vote while telling them they’re families lives don’t matter? The DNC did that, not anyone else. That’s been their whole play entire fucking campaign.
Answer me this. How fucked up is it to tell women and lgbt people that our lives are worth less than people halfway across the world who hate us just as much as Republicans. Because thats what you abstainers did.
They pressured them the last two years and the DNC refused to budge on damn near anything.
If you tried for two years and got nowhere, maybe the blame circles back to yall not accepting a clear “no”.
It wasn’t non-voters who lied about Biden’s mental health. It wasn’t non-voters who pushed him through the majority of the primary while keeping pertinent health information of his secret. It wasn’t non-voters who humiliated their candidate, party, and country during a national debate because they thought they could hide his mental health decline. It wasn’t non-voters who then pushed through a candidate the constituency didn’t nominate, on a platform they didn’t want, while suppressing any criticism of the DNC.
It wasnt the DNC either. Biden chose to try to run, against the advice of basically everyone around him. On the other hand, you might be the only person who isnt a Republican to give a shit about wanting a primary. Definitely the first Ive encountered.
100,000 people cast protest votes in Michigan alone over the Palestinian genocide, which is more than the number of votes Harris lost Michigan by. They put pressure on the DNC to take them seriously and heed their concerns, and what did the non-voters, I’m sorry, the DNC do in response?
See what I said above about ignoring a clear no, and telling the rest of us marginalized Americans we matter less than Palestine.
The Democrats have promised “real change is just four years away, we promise this time” since I was fucking born. Guess what? That bullshit excuse isn’t flying anymore. Being sold the fucking status quo every fucking election cycle is old, and it’s cost the DNC 4/7 the last elections.
The reason the DNC doesn’t push progressive candidates, above all else, is that progressives cannot be counted on to vote. Why would they appeal to you when they know the moderate conservatives will at least show up.
You all demanded everyone vote the way you wanted, regardless of how they felt. So yeah, I am telling you where to direct your fucking anger, and it shouldn’t be at people like me.
We demanded people vote against an obvious evil which would be worse for Palestine than Harris. That was never up for debate. The most basic of realpolitik should’ve told you all to vote for her regardless if saving Palestinian lives was your goal. As evidended by…
Who voted fucking Harris, btw, you fucking twat.** Begrudgingly, despite my displeasure with almost everything she stood for. And if you look at my comment history, you’ll see I remained adamant that no one should vote for Trump while still trying to paint a fucking realistic picture of the situation.
Congratulations, you get a cookie. Now why couldnt the other 14,999,999 work that one out?
Didn’t realize “maybe the DNC should have platformed on policies that their constituents were vocal about during the campaign” was an arrogant idealistic dream.
Guess I should just settle for the status quo and hope the party that just showed me they wouldn’t budge will maybe budge in four years.
Wanting the DNC to field a more progressive candidate isnt wrong. Expecting them to do so in response to not voting is an idealistic dream, and blaming them for siding with the faction that can be trusted to show up is the arrogance.
You want some hard fucking truths from someone who’s supposedly your fucking enemy?
NO ONE fucking owes you anything in life. They don’t owe you their protection, they don’t owe you the truth, they don’t owe you fucking anything.
Noone owes us protection, but we owe Palestine? That makes sense/ And, tell me again, which candidate was better for them?
So when you entitled fucking children scream and shout about all the people who didn’t vote, you need to remember that they don’t owe you fucking shit.
You weren’t entitled to anyone’s vote simply by virtue of wanting to stop fascism, so fuck right off with this entitlement that all fucking liberal elite assholes seem to think they deserve.
So Im not entitled to anyones vote, as an American trans woman. But Palestine is? You are at best inconsistent, and at worst a hypocrite. And the fact stopping fascism wasnt a good enough sell to earn those votes says more about you than our entitlement
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So what would you want people to do when their kids/grandkids ask them what
theydid to stop a genocide? Isn’t Lemmy always screaming about, regardless of the reasoning, a Nazi is a Nazi.I cant have kids, but if Im ever in that position Ill tell them exactly what I told you: I did not believe that position politically viable and am perfectly willing to gamble in lives because you have to be in politics. Thats alot of what politics is. Additionally, they sure didnt give af about preventing my genocide at home. In fact, alot of them probably support it if anything, so why tf should I care about theirs halfway across the world?
So it’s ok to force me to support a genocide, rather than shift your p[arty’s platform to reflect what the voters actually want?
“Your issue clearly didn’t matter, so stfu and blame yourself for having fucking convictions.”
Or, here’s an idea: if the same people are bringing the same concern to you consistently over the course of two fucking years, maybe you, the candidate, need to rethink your. policies.
Or, maybe they kept it up despite being ignored for two years because it was that fucking important to them as an issue.
What a fucking joke, you seriously read what you’re writing here and go, “Oh yeah, I am so smart, I know everything.”
Im gonna come back to this alot. But yes, sometimes it IS inconvenient. You clearly either do not understand or reject the idea of realpolitik.
Your issue clearly didn’t matter, so stfu and blame yourself for having fucking convictions."
Or, here’s an idea: if the same people are bringing the same concern to you consistently over the course of two fucking years, maybe you, the candidate, need to rethink your policies.
Or, maybe they kept it up despite being ignored for two years because it was that fucking important to them as an issue.
What a fucking joke, you seriously read what you’re writing here and go, “Oh yeah, I am so smart, I know everything.”
It clearly was ONLY important to you. Maybe that’s an unpleasant reality, but its the one we get to deal with. Much like the fact that most Americans are either facist, stupid, or both. Thats a horrible situation that makes politics real unpleasant, but pretending it isnt is not exactly a winning strategy. Most of us either dont care about Gaza enough to change our position, or dont think doing so is actually a viable strategy rn.
Look at exit polls, most people cite the economy and immigration as concerns, Palestine isnt even on the chart. Obviously we cant poll voters who didnt vote, but Trump actually lost votes from 2020, just not as badly. Unless we assume that all 15 million of those dropped voters stayed home over Gaza- which isnt likely given said exit polls- there are more Americans voting FOR Fascism because they blame Dems for the economic effects of the pandemic, and cant stand sharing the country with Latin Americans; than there likely are Americans who stayed home over Gaza. If you have a poll which suggests orherwise, Id love to see it
And the primary thing makes zero sense to me, the Dems haven’t had an actual primary since Obama. 2016 they fucked Bernie over despite his popularity and forced Clinton on us, they basically forced through Biden by keep Warren in long enough to leech voters off a second Bernie run, and then we didn’t even have one.
So the DNC tells the American people, “You don’t get a say in who your candidate will be, and your candidate will also ignore you completely, but you have to vote for them.” And you blame the voters for being apathetic? Yeah, makes sense, it’s the fault of those not being represented for not being represented.
This used to be how both parties worked just as a point of fact. Primaries are a fairly new thing in the grand scheme. Its not your fault for not being represented, but it is for not taking the lesser evil. You chose not to vote, and that is your right. But that enables the worse candidate to win sometimes, you cant pretend like that isnt the case. Your vote and the DNC do not exist in a vacuum.
This is just elitist entitlement, “sEe WhAt i SaId AbovE aBoUt a ClEaR nO,” fuck off. You don’t get to dictate yes and no, the voters told the DNC how it would work: you change your policy on Palestine, or you don’t get our votes.
That wasnt me trying to dictate anyway, I just had already spoken on the subject and didnt want to repeat myself. Its not elitist to not say the same thing twice.
The DNC, through their arrogance, hubris, and entitlement, decided they felt the voters were bluffing, and called them on it.
And the voters didn’t bluff. Sure sounds to me like they all told the DNC “no,” and maybe y’all need to fucking get over it and accept that No you got from your base.
Again, exit polls. Palestine wasnt a big issue to anyone except you, and the Dems are a big tent party with liberals, never-Trumpers, proper Socialists, ect to try to appeal to. Thats what being in a coalition is. Sometimes you have to make big compromises. Or you can choose not to vote and risk sinking us all, which- to reiterate- is your right, but seems like a tactically foolish decision when Trump is objectively going to be even worse. Why, if you care so much about this genocide and are so unwilling to compromise, would you rather risk selling them out completely instead of mitigating the damage. Whether you like it or not, whether it was wise or not, the DNC was not going to compromise. An explicitly anti-Israel position was not on the table. So why would you risk electing the candidate who is even more pro-Israel if you care so much about Gaza?
And since we’re gonna play this bullshit “Explain to me why women’s and LGBT lives matter less than Palestinians,” I want you to explain to me why you weren’t standing with your Arab American brothers and sisters demanding their voices be heard? Where was your support of their concerns, I mean, it’s only fair you supported them like you’re demanding they support you, right?
I voted for Harris because, among those concerns for LGBT and womens rights, I also understood Trump would be even worse for Gaza. Would an explicitly anti-Israel candidate be nice, sure. But that wasnt on the table. That is me standing with those people affedtee in the most effective way available to me.
And then I want you to explain to me why those Palestinian lives matter less than American LGBT and women’s lives, because I sure would love to know why you feel entitled to their vote but they aren’t entitled to their lives.
Theyre not entitled to my vote either, and you cant be surprised a trans woman doesnt feel much sympathy for people whos religion is explicitly misogynistic and transphobic. Setting that aside, again, I did vote in the best way available to me for them.
And hows their strategy of trying to win moderates over instead going? Lost four out of the last 7 elections? Real winning strategy there, maybe it’ll work if we just double down and try to win even more moderate voters.
And the DNC doesn’t push progressive candidates because they don’t want progress, you fucking muppet. They’re the other side of the conservative coin, they only care about the status quo.
They have to compromise, the DNC, the voters are done and aren’t going to compromise anymore. And you can plug your ears and “but but but,” all you fucking want: Harris didn’t convince people she was worth voting for, full stop.
She fucking failed, she ran a loser campaign, and she fucking lost. And you’re so “vote blue no matter who” you can’t, or won’t, understand that people aren’t going to vote unless there’s something worth voting for.
Every policy was “Well, we’re just not gonna be as evil,” basically. And people were expected to save democracy based on that? They had a fucking grand slam lined up (I know you like metaphors and such) ready to go, and Harris decided to bunt instead of swinging for the fences.
Considering you’re so concerned about Gaza, I would think preventing the situation from getting even worse would be enough of a sell. If you think democracy is a good- and Im inferring you do- theb saving democracy should’ve earned your vote completely irrespective of who was running or what their policy was provided they will in fact save democracy. A rotten ham sandwhich shouldve earned your vote if you were being logically consistent. But you arent.
First: I’m a piece of shit when you think I haven’t voted for Harris, and then when I tell you I do, you mock me as if that was the bare minimum and I’m an idiot for think it means anything. So which is it, do you want to celebrate those who did vote for Harris, or was that just the expectation that you felt entitled to?
Second: I’ve already answered this and you just keep plugging your ears and screaming it’s the voters
Apparently Americans are so unhappy with the status quo, 14 million Dems chose to stay home. Maybe the Dems need to figure out what they did that made them so unpopular, and stop blaming their voting base for their failures.
One can do idiotic things without being an idiot. That being said, you want me to stand with Arab-Americans and Palestine by extension, here you go. Why should they trust voters like those who stayed home to advocate for them when- if your demands for justice are not conceded to- you would then elect the zionists over the status quo? Gaza is not a boolean vairable where things are so bad it doesnt matter what you do if you dont get justice, things can still get even worse. And you- who cares so much about advocating for them- would rather that happen if immediate justice is not onbthe table. You arent an idiot, but thats an idiotic position. (1/2, second part later. Im at work)
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We need a new party for the working class. The democrats are no longer that party and it cannot be saved.
The message was loud and clear: America writ large is not ready for anything less than a straight, white, male president. Its time to stop being delusional, Obama was a fluke, and not going to be repeated. You might not like hearing it, but its the reality on the ground, don’t take it from me.
In retrospect, I think Biden could have shat himself on live TV while asleep at the podium and probably have still gotten elected, the bar was so, so low. Kamala basically ran a prefect campaign, its just not what America wants.
Good news, you’ll all be able to sit out the next one as well!
