Epic enshittified early. The whole system was terrible and they force it onto you. Here is valve actively making it easier to play your games while epic was like “It’s PC gaming, you get the good with the bad, suck it!”. You can’t simply buy your competition when your competition has more money than God.
Epic is failing because Tim Sweeney refused to innovate the platform.
Oh, yeah, Valve and Proton are to thank. I’m just saying Microsoft’s not blocking Proton like Epic and a few others seem to be. I can appreciate the stance of “We won’t help you, but we won’t stop you either. Good luck” that I think MS is taking with this.
I’m running Linux for my couch based gaming and the experience is awesome. Much better than Windows ever was.
What makes you think that Linux is holding Linux back? The UI can be completely customised which makes Steam OS wonderful to use while Microsoft completely ban any customised interface out of the box.
The second there’s a problem all the guides on how to get stuff configured or fix a problem start with… open Terminal. At that point your average user is asking for Windows.
I say this as someone with over twenty years of experience with Linux. Users hate command line interfaces.
I haven’t been required to use the terminal for anything in years.
Honestly. I’ve been using Linux as my daily driver since the mid-2000’s (Warty Warthog?), and the only times the terminal gets opened these days is through pure choice. Maybe 10 years ago I would agree with you.
As a recent Linux user, I can say that he’s got a point, but he’s making the wrong point. What I’ve learned is that technically, you don’t have to use terminal. But as a new user, you’re never made aware that there are non-terminals options. Every time you try installing a program or really doing anything, the first response on any article or forum is generally going to be to open up terminal and start typing. Linux is in a weird spot because the are so many desktop environments that the only way to make a tutorial that works on all distributions is to tell the user to use terminal. Yet by doing so, you are pushing away new users who will begin to think that Linux is too technical for normal use.
I see many experienced users dismiss new users’ concerns because “you don’t actually need terminal,” but I don’t think these people really understand that while that’s technically true, the new user experience has been constant tutorials and articles that basically state the exact opposite. I’m not sure what a good solution would be, but I do think that experienced users need to acknowledge that just because new users identify an incorrect problem, doesn’t mean that there isn’t a problem at all
I was of the opinion that anything that suggested the terminal was purely for speed reasons.
Average Windows guide. Click here, dismiss the warning, click here, click here, close the advert, click next, type in 1, accept, reboot.
Average Linux guide, go to Gnome Tweaks, third option, type in 1, no reboot required. Or open a terminal and paste the following command.
It’s precise, it’s concise, and it’s fast but it’s not required.
the are so many desktop environments
I completely disagree. There is Gnome with 70% of the market, KDE with 30%, and then various hacked together desktops with <1%. Guides should be set up for Gnome because you stick with defaults if you are that scared, maybe a reference for KDE, and if you chose something else then your already in copy/paste commands territory.
There was no part of me setting up SteamOS on my couch PC that required a terminal, which is what we are talking about here.
Regardless of the reason, the end result is still the same, which is that new users are left with the idea that terminal is essential for using Linux.
You can say that you set up a distro without using terminal all you want, but as long as new users don’t know how to do that, my point still stands. Frankly, the fact that you even thought to bring up that point feels like, to me, extra proof that experienced users are highly dismissive of the new user experience.
Exactly the advice no-one who is technically literate enough to try Linux will ever follow. “Just execute this random code you don’t understand. Trust me.”
Have you ever had to fix anything on Linux? Even asking for help on any forum gets you the response “paste this in your terminal and give us the result”.
In trying to switch to Linux but all the fucking around to make some games work gets tiring sometimes, enough that I don’t think I’ll ever switch completely because sometimes it’s nice to just install and play.
Maybe you’re going for more esoteric titles, or maybe some with invasive anti-cheat software, but just to add another, opposing point, I haven’t had much trouble since switching to Kubuntu.
Steam doesn’t require any terminal opening, the hard part are shitty Windows games that pop up boxes to install extra stuff because for some reason they can’t install it when you install the game.
Epic enshittified early. The whole system was terrible and they force it onto you. Here is valve actively making it easier to play your games while epic was like “It’s PC gaming, you get the good with the bad, suck it!”. You can’t simply buy your competition when your competition has more money than God.
Epic is failing because Tim Sweeney refused to innovate the platform.
Fuck Tim Sweeney with a linux powered dildo.
He is the reason linux gaming is being held back.
Pornhub video title would be: "Getting all my weak spots penetrated at once by software using ‘unsafe custom kernels’ "
Even Microsoft doesn’t seem to be actively preventing their games from running on Linux. Fuck Sweeney.
I played Forza Horizon 4 and 5 on Linux with no issues. But I give the laurels to Steam and Proton.
Oh, yeah, Valve and Proton are to thank. I’m just saying Microsoft’s not blocking Proton like Epic and a few others seem to be. I can appreciate the stance of “We won’t help you, but we won’t stop you either. Good luck” that I think MS is taking with this.
average Lemmy conversion lol
Honestly, Linux is the reason Linux gaming is held back.
I’m running Linux for my couch based gaming and the experience is awesome. Much better than Windows ever was.
What makes you think that Linux is holding Linux back? The UI can be completely customised which makes Steam OS wonderful to use while Microsoft completely ban any customised interface out of the box.
Windows is only popular through inertia.
The reliance on the terminal holds Linux back.
The second there’s a problem all the guides on how to get stuff configured or fix a problem start with… open Terminal. At that point your average user is asking for Windows.
I say this as someone with over twenty years of experience with Linux. Users hate command line interfaces.
I haven’t been required to use the terminal for anything in years.
Honestly. I’ve been using Linux as my daily driver since the mid-2000’s (Warty Warthog?), and the only times the terminal gets opened these days is through pure choice. Maybe 10 years ago I would agree with you.
As a recent Linux user, I can say that he’s got a point, but he’s making the wrong point. What I’ve learned is that technically, you don’t have to use terminal. But as a new user, you’re never made aware that there are non-terminals options. Every time you try installing a program or really doing anything, the first response on any article or forum is generally going to be to open up terminal and start typing. Linux is in a weird spot because the are so many desktop environments that the only way to make a tutorial that works on all distributions is to tell the user to use terminal. Yet by doing so, you are pushing away new users who will begin to think that Linux is too technical for normal use.
I see many experienced users dismiss new users’ concerns because “you don’t actually need terminal,” but I don’t think these people really understand that while that’s technically true, the new user experience has been constant tutorials and articles that basically state the exact opposite. I’m not sure what a good solution would be, but I do think that experienced users need to acknowledge that just because new users identify an incorrect problem, doesn’t mean that there isn’t a problem at all
So the problem is crappy guides?
I was of the opinion that anything that suggested the terminal was purely for speed reasons.
Average Windows guide. Click here, dismiss the warning, click here, click here, close the advert, click next, type in 1, accept, reboot.
Average Linux guide, go to Gnome Tweaks, third option, type in 1, no reboot required. Or open a terminal and paste the following command.
It’s precise, it’s concise, and it’s fast but it’s not required.
I completely disagree. There is Gnome with 70% of the market, KDE with 30%, and then various hacked together desktops with <1%. Guides should be set up for Gnome because you stick with defaults if you are that scared, maybe a reference for KDE, and if you chose something else then your already in copy/paste commands territory.
There was no part of me setting up SteamOS on my couch PC that required a terminal, which is what we are talking about here.
Regardless of the reason, the end result is still the same, which is that new users are left with the idea that terminal is essential for using Linux.
You can say that you set up a distro without using terminal all you want, but as long as new users don’t know how to do that, my point still stands. Frankly, the fact that you even thought to bring up that point feels like, to me, extra proof that experienced users are highly dismissive of the new user experience.
Exactly the advice no-one who is technically literate enough to try Linux will ever follow. “Just execute this random code you don’t understand. Trust me.”
Have you ever had to fix anything on Linux? Even asking for help on any forum gets you the response “paste this in your terminal and give us the result”.
In trying to switch to Linux but all the fucking around to make some games work gets tiring sometimes, enough that I don’t think I’ll ever switch completely because sometimes it’s nice to just install and play.
Maybe you’re going for more esoteric titles, or maybe some with invasive anti-cheat software, but just to add another, opposing point, I haven’t had much trouble since switching to Kubuntu.
How many times did you open terminal up to get a game working?
If it’s more than zero then it isn’t user friendly or accessible.
I said not much trouble, not no trouble, but that being said, zero times. Issues I’ve encountered have not been related to getting a game running.
Zero.
Steam doesn’t require any terminal opening, the hard part are shitty Windows games that pop up boxes to install extra stuff because for some reason they can’t install it when you install the game.
Zero. Everything is done though Steam.
I mainly play indie titles, but actually zero times so far. Steam really does everything for you nowadays