• mydoomlessaccount@infosec.pub
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    178
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    2 months ago

    Look, I respect your right to be how you are, but keep it in your church. I don’t need to see it everywhere I go, and I damn sure don’t want it anywhere near me. I don’t have a problem with you, but if you try any of that God shit on me, I’m gonna put you on your ass, bro.

    • Track_Shovel@slrpnk.netOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      30
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      Are… Are you trying to convert me?

      Deep down I’m very scared I might be religious, but I’m not sure because I’m so out of touch with my repressed feeling

      • tweeks@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        I crave for some kind of religion and I want it to be real, I think I was made for it genetically. My core being tries to find meaning in everything, every story, every feeling, the connection with others. Therefore I understand that desire.

        But I just can’t take the bullshit when I think about it rationally. The lack of doubt people have in any of their beliefs and the kind of certainty they support their imagined traditions and Gods with. It’s insane.

        Finding a meaningful life feels natural, but the only truth I have is that I cannot believe anything for certain. So all religion becomes a complete mindtrap for people who use it to sooth themselves.

        And that is fine, I get it. I get that you don’t want to question it as that’s harder and makes life more chaotic. And I also feel some envy for people who are able to not care (as much) about uncertainty. But good for them.

        The only thing is, keep those ideas to yourself and your community and accept others for not being able to commit to your story. My story and all my beliefs are probably also flawed, but that doubt is a healthy way to accept that others have different ideas.

  • jawa21@lemmy.sdf.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    99
    arrow-down
    12
    ·
    2 months ago

    This is all funny until you do it. Trying this kind of shit in 2009 as I was starting to fully transition got me a full swing baseball bat to my hip. I laid there for maybe 30 mins before I could crawl to a phone.

    From a safety standpoint, please don’t do this. Just flip them off as you walk away and then vote as if your life depends on it, because it just may.

    • Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      50
      arrow-down
      15
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      This is why everyone who isn’t a cis hetero white Christian man absolutely needs to buy a gun and learn how to use it. It’s your job to defend yourself. (Don’t get me wrong, allies are great, and people should be helping each other against the bigots, but end of the day, you’re alone, gotta defend yourself)

      Edit: also, I’m really sorry that happened, not trying to blame the victim, just advocating for people taking their power back

      • areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        30
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        In most countries you can’t buy a gun. Then again in most places that kind of violence carries significant jail time.

      • Mango@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        2 months ago

        Oh fuck off. This argument only gets upvoted here when it’s specifically not for the straight white males? I can read the room and the room can go fuck itself.

        Here’s what you should have said:

        Everyone should buy a gun and learn how to use it, maintain it, secure it, and exercise restraint when you’re just mad at someone. It’s your job to defend yourself because anything can happen in the world. People should be helping each other overcome violent people.

        You don’t have to be a gun nut to have something worth protecting(like idk, your life?) and protect it.

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      19
      ·
      2 months ago

      That both tracks and also says all anyone needs to hear about how much they actually believe in their religion that says to turn the other cheek. Holy hell

    • VinnyDaCat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      2 months ago

      I’m sorry that happened to you but I appreciate you warning people of the dangers of being confrontational with these people.

      It’s not worth it. You won’t change their mind, people nearby aren’t going to clap for you, you’re just unnecessarily putting yourself in harms way because many of these people are not kind, they will respond aggressively.

      • ManOMorphos@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        2 months ago

        And to add, they will only fight if they have an unfair advantage (more people, better weapons, etc). It’s better to defend your own ground if necessary.

    • umbrella@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      i dont think you will be able to vote away religious fundamentalism.

      maybe bring a bat next time you are feeling cheeky, just in case.

      • moonbunny@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        2 months ago

        Depending on the jurisdiction, always have a baseball and potentially gloves with you as well. Having only a baseball bat can be considered as either possession of a weapon or having an intent to cause harm I think, which can really backfire when authorities get involved.

        IANAL, and anyone reading should consult their local laws surrounding self-defence before carrying items for the express purpose of self-defence

    • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      A mod deleted my comment and suggested I approach in a better way. I apologize for my presentation.

      You were righteously angry. And, it’s definitely not ethical for the other to respond to words with physical violence.

      I’m a multiple-minority with a strong sense of justice. I speak from experience when I say: We must pick our battles and means wisely, particularly since the orange baffoon emboldened a wide scope and magnitude of hatred.

      I wasn’t there. But, it seems almost certain this was not a wise battle for you to fight alone, perhaps at all. There’s almost certainly something you should learn from this. And, whatever it is to be learned, it’s definitely not to silence yourself and advocate others follow.

      If you tell us more and solicit others’ input then maybe there’s insight we could offer. And, if this isn’t a safe enough space to do that, PM me. I’ll share a place where such a post would be very well-received.

      • Allero@lemmy.today
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        2 months ago

        Gotta organize against physical violence any time of the day. Exercising violence to silence the voices that do not call to violence themselves should become unthinkable.

    • Mango@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      Oh no. I am the one who knocks. I can be bold because of my particular fitness and low aversion to the idea of hurting people.

        • Mango@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 months ago

          Well yeah. I don’t seek out hurting anyone. I just don’t get bothered by the idea of shutting down an aggressor with force. Like, I seem to be sociopathic a bit. Definitely not feelingless, but kinda toned down feelings.

        • Allero@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          This is a pure ragebait answer.

          Zero actual content or explanation, and instead just a pure angry gibberish.

          I see where the take you decided to attack comes from. By simply calling to “ignore” violence, we give rise to it - and before long, being hit with the bat for reversing a verbal attack and defending from bullying becomes something normal and seemingly acceptable. It is absolutely not and never should be.

          But the person in question was not in a position to fix that. Having others who sympathize with you or just can’t allow for violence to flourish could seriously turn the tides of the conversation and would probably never lead to violence in the first place. And instead of recognizing that, they seemingly came to a broader conclusion that one should never respond to such aggressive verbal takes in fear of physical attack - thereby completing its original goal as a silencing tool.

          I cannot help but notice, though, that it was framed in a bit of a rough tone, which might not help to drive the message across.

  • undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    80
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    2 months ago

    I just don’t understand why they feel they have to flaunt their religion. Like, we get it, you worship a zombie-corpse God and you really, really dont understand the concept of eternity but you don’t have to make it your whole personality.

    • TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      25
      ·
      2 months ago

      Xians are so friendly especially the part where they believe that I am going to suffer for eternity in a lake of fire.

      Feel the love.

      • Flax@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        26
        ·
        2 months ago

        As a Christian, I don’t believe the Bible because I agree with it and like it. I believe in it because I’m convinced it’s true. Kinda sounds like to me “pro vaccine are so hateful! Saying if I don’t take the vaccine I’ll get sick and die!”

        • Allero@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          2 months ago

          Genuine question. What convinces you that Bible is true? And among Abrahamic religions, why is this particular book true? Why do you accept “update” to Torah (that is, the Christian Bible), but not “update” to the Christian Bible (Quran)? Or do I miss the point?

          • Flax@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            2 months ago

            Glad you asked! I’ll start with the Torah. One of the central purposes of Judaism was and is waiting for the Messiah. It even makes its way into modern day Judaism. The likes of Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 are clearly about Jesus of Nazareth. The records we have about Jesus consistently show to Him being perfect, doing miracles, being a good teacher, claiming to be the messiah and even God, and then He was crucified in the most humiliating way, died, and was buried. But on the third day He rose again from the dead and was seen by quite a few, who were so convinced they ended up entering a world of persecution and difficulty, many died. Because they refused to renounce that they had seen Him risen.

            As historical records go- the Bible is pretty comprehensive for records of its time. Most other people we know about have their records dating to hundreds of years after their existence. Jesus’ records were written within the lifetime of people who would have known Him. And they’re pretty consistent, unlike legends which rapidly evolve with time. The Bible has been pretty much the same. Give or take some less important passages, though.

            Now, there are a load of problems with Islam and the Qur’an, but I’ll keep it concise to how the Qur’an disproves itself. The Qur’an makes these points: The Gospel is the word of allah: 3:3-4 No one can change allah’s words: 18:27 Strongly implies that the Christians had the Gospel when the Qur’an was written: 7:157 Christians should judge by the Gospel: 5:47

            The Qur’an also denies the death of Jesus and His divinity, which the Bible claims. So it’s in obvious contradiction. So judging by the Gospel, Islam is false. And the Gospel cannot be corrupted as the Qur’an recommends the Gospel and claims allah’s words cannot be corrupted.

            Paul also gives us this warning: Galatians 1:8

            But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

            Considering the Qur’an apparently was revealed to Mohammed by an “angel”… Yeah…

            The Islamic dilemma explained in a YouTube video

            I hope this makes sense

            • Shizrak@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              2 months ago

              Also possible that a good dude who preached love and kindness went into a coma when the tyrants put him on a cross, and then woke up a few days later, with no involvement whatsoever from the creator.

              • Flax@feddit.uk
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                2 months ago

                So you’re suggesting a guy who was ruthlessly beaten and crucified , then stabbed in the side revealing that his lung had collapsed, simply recovered after two nights in a tomb and pushed a boulder out of the way, without the armed guards noticing? And who were the dudes just chilling there? And how do you explain the ascension into heaven?

                It is possible, but I’m not buying it

                • Shizrak@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  That’s fair, and you’re entitled to believe what you like.

                  My faith tells me that the possible (though unlikely) set of events must be true, as the alternative is impossible and just as unlikely.

            • Allero@lemmy.today
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              2 months ago

              Interesting - will read more about that Quran contradiction. Thanks!

              Also, to clarify, the reason you believe that Bible holds actual historical value is that, unlike legends and stories, it is more or less consistent?

              • Flax@feddit.uk
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                2 months ago

                Pretty much. Also, we tend to accept facts like “Julius Caesar was born in Subaru” when our only source is some guy said that 200 years after he was born. So in terms of Historical records, the New Testament is actually pretty contemporary, being written mere decades after Jesus existed. My faith primarily hinges on Jesus’ and the New Testament

                • Allero@lemmy.today
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 months ago

                  So ain’t that the reason to doubt that Caesar was born in Subaru and seek more evidence, as opposed to believe the New Testament? Also, given the supernatural claims about Jesus, shouldn’t it be supplied with extraordinary evidence?

                  We know for sure that Caesar did exist and was the Roman dictator, for example. We also have contemporary sources on his life - accounts of Cicero, for example, or Sallust.

                  Can we say for sure that Jesus did exist, and, especially important, has actually created any miracles?

                  And also, what about evidence for the existence of Buddha, for example? Did he never exist or he never attained nirvana, or he falsely believed he switched to some supernatural state while this was all mental? Or did it all exist in parralel?

        • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          2 months ago

          “2000 year old goat herder fairytales are more real to me than consistently tested and verified modern scientific findings”

    • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      They proselytize because of a prophecy, that has already been fulfilled. The prophecy said that once there were Christians world wide, Christ would return. Since they don’t recognize the guy that fit the bill, they assume that prophecy hasn’t been fulfilled, and they need more Christians everywhere.

      It basically caused the 7th Day Adventists, and The Jehovah’s Witnesses to be founded. Funny thing was they got the year right, and then completely missed everything else.

        • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          The Báb and Baha’u’llah were born directly descended from David, and declared their missions in 1844 and 1863 respectively, having never actually met each other, but The Báb specifically named Baha’u’llah as his successor just before taking three regiments worth of lead to the face, for the second time that month.

    • JaggedRobotPubes@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      There’s this spook in their religion that says everyone who’s not them will get tortured forever in hell so save as many as you can, but even the ones who don’t quite buy that aspect still have its lingering relative of “well if you’re gonna be a casual you ought to at least let them know how great it is”

      • undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        16
        ·
        2 months ago

        “Worship me as a god or ill have you tortured for all eternity.”

        Christians: yep, I see no problem with this. Its definitely not an abusive relationship.

        • Zink@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          ·
          2 months ago

          “I love you more than you can understand, but I will use my unlimited cosmic power to hide from you, and I will never interact with you or help nudge all the diverging religions in the right direction. The fate of your immortal soul, your worth as a human being, and your relationship with me will depend on whether you think I exist and kiss my ass despite me using my aforementioned unlimited cosmic power to hide my very existence from you.”

          Many humans: ooh I love a good mystery!

          It’s like the ultimate rich deadbeat dad who you never get to see. The Elon Musk of the supernatural world, if you will.

          • undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            2 months ago

            You know!

            Now, if you could step round all the Buddhists, Muslims etc. trying to appeal their fate because they “dedicated their lives to helping starving children” and “there’s no way we could have know ln about you” or whatever. Yeah, you should have thought about that before you became a sinner shouldn’t you! Yeah, thats what i thought…

            No, no, I don’t care what you did. So long as you’re really sorry for not being perfect,

            Like me

            , acept me as your God and are willing to worship me forever and ever and ever, you can come right on in. Turns out, ultimately, I don’t care about good or bad that much. I want people who will worship me and tell me I’m good and kind, unlike like those disgusting sinners I’m torturing forever.

            • Zink@programming.dev
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              2 months ago

              Funny how God seems so much like a shitty human ruler personality, but combined with the ultimate power fantasy. Gee I wonder how that happened.

          • Flax@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            2 months ago

            I mean, Christianity is the largest religion and varying properties and various concepts of a Jesus has infiltrated basically every main religion apart from Judaism. Which is a pretty big nudge. Anytime God does show Himself, people come up with all sorts of excuses not to believe. You also need to realise while God is infinitely merciful, He’s also infinitely just.

            A question for you would be: how would you balance that out? Being infinitely merciful and infinitely just?

            • Zink@programming.dev
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              2 months ago

              I don’t consider “a dude might have existed 2000 years ago and built an enduring reputation” to be very compelling. Especially not while living in a world where everybody around me has instant access to the whole of human knowledge and yet so many stay disconnected from reality.

              I mean if he wanted to, he could materialize in front of every single one of us like Doctor Manhattan to give us reassurance and a taste of being in the presence of his light. He knows what each of us needs in order to be brought into the faith. Yet, he presents us with a world indistinguishable from one where he doesn’t exist, and he has gifted us with these incredible conscious intelligent minds, and his main rule of existence is that we don’t use that intelligence to explore the world he’s given us and instead rely on some ancient translated and edited texts.

              The infinitely merciful and infinitely just thing seems to me like a simple logical contradiction along the lines of asking whether God can create a stone so big that he himself cannot lift it. Isn’t the whole point of showing mercy that you let somebody off the hook instead of making them submit to what would otherwise be just?

              • Flax@feddit.uk
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                2 months ago

                If God were to act like a door-to-door salesman, when would he show up? “Oh, I haven’t believed yet because he hasn’t shown up yet”. He showed up once for all. You say He gives us a world indistinguishable from one where He doesn’t exist- but this doesn’t make sense either and isn’t even scientific. What do you think the difference in the world would be? Also again, the vast majority of people on earth have heard about Jesus. It’s hardly an obscure secret.

                He gives us free will and respects our decision.

                Mercy isn’t the opposite of justice. Unjust is when you let people get away with things. God has mercy on those who are truly repentant and trust in His sacrifice as their salvation.

                Good works aren’t exceptional. To do good is what’s expected of us. So when we do something wrong, we can’t undo it. A good driver is someone who follows all of the rules. If you go through a red stoplight, you can’t make it up by stopping at three more. Our sin required the perfect and infinite sacrifice - which is God Himself.

      • undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        Sure. If you’ll indulge me, its best explained by a kind of story.

        Say you got into heaven and you think “ok, I always wanted to play golf while I was alive.” So, you play golf every day for 10,000 years. Afterwhich, you can play an 18 hole game in 18 shots, one handed. Then you think "well, I always wanted to learn the piano. So you learn the piano for a million years. Afterwhich you can play every song ever written, perfectly, by heart and with your feet. Then you think “ok, well I always wanted to learn lots of things.” So, you read everything ever written. More so, you learn every language ever, so you can read everything ever written, in its original language. This keeps you occupied for a billion years (and I’m being very generous there).

        Now, maybe not the first, maybe not the second or third but, by the 7th or 8th hundred, thousand billion septillion years, you might start getting a little bit bored. By the 9th, existence will be indistinguishable from hell and you still won’t be even 0.00000000000001% of the way through eternity.

        So, you go to God and ask “hey, I’ve done everything ever. Time means nothing to me. Any amount I spend on something, I can always spend infinitely more on something else. Anything I do, I master. Whats the point? I don’t understand.”

        God then replies, its not that you don’t understand. Its that you finally understand the meaning of heaven and now you’re able to accept your own death.

        The other alternative is that its eternal worship of God which would be hell. Some claim God’s godness will make that all not true. However, the you that would be ok with eternity would be so far removed from you that it wouldn’t be you at all but something else entirely.

        I hope i explained that well enough.

        • gwen@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          thank u for explaining that was a really good read!!! i agree that eternity in heaven would be psychological torture after a while and at least in hell you have the simulation of being burnt

        • Laurentide@pawb.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          2 months ago

          As an ex-Christian I find it amusing that you chose to explain via parable. :)

          However, I think there are some flaws to your story. You seem to assume that Heaven would be like getting permanently sealed into your own personal holodeck, alone, no contact with anyone but the entity that put you there, the computer loaded with complete records of everything that had existed up to the moment of your death but never updated beyond that. It’s all so very static. Of course you would eventually go mad; what you’re describing is just a more comfortable version of solitary confinement!

          It’s also not how Heaven was described to me when I still went to church. Some claimed we would all be sitting on clouds singing praise songs, forever experiencing a state of mindless ecstasy. (Which doesn’t sound like much of an improvement.) Others claimed the Bible says we will be rulers in Heaven, and how can you be a ruler without something to rule over? (That seemed a little better, but I also don’t really want to be some kind of king imposing my will on others.)

          The most appealing concept of Heaven I’ve encountered so far is the one portrayed in the Housepets! comic. It’s just another place, but one where everyone has agency and security and has been healed of whatever traumas ailed them in life. They are free to build, create, share, and grow as they like. You can still fuck off and become a hermit if you really want to, but most people choose to hang out in a big city. Some have jobs but there is no money or material needs; they work because they enjoy it or because they believe it’s worth doing. One of the characters even chose to open a free massage parlor because they like helping people relax and wanted more opportunities to do that. And the mortal world still exists, so there are always new people to meet and new stories to read (or write!)

          I could maybe spend eternity in a place like that. And if I had to change to make eternal existence possible, well, I’m not the same person I was five years ago and I have no desire to still be the same person five years in the future. I think if Heaven did exist, then Purgatory must also. Not as a place of punishment, but of healing. This world will crush your soul, and even the purest of saints (perhaps especially the purest of saints) carries too much pain and trauma with them for any place they exist to be a paradise. I think you’re right that in order to be okay with eternity we would need to be changed into something unlike our current selves.

          Sorry this got so long and rambley. I’ve spent a lot of time wondering what kind of hypothetical afterlife could possibly make this all worth it.

          • undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            Ha, yeah, the format did feel very fitting.

            Oh, don’t worry, there’ll be plenty of time to catch up and hang out with whoever you like. In fact, you could spend at million years with everyone who ever existed, individually, and you would still have plenty of time left over…

            because its eternity

            Then what?

            I didn’t mention all the things a person could do but that wasn’t meant to indicate that they couldn’t do other things with their time as, ultimately, they would end up at the same place. Please feel free to swap them out with anything you like.

            Fair enough but neither of those match what bible says. It just says heaven is “where gods praise is eternal” which is pretty ominous, if taken literally.

            If heaven existed, there’s no reason the presume purgatory must also exist. Especially as purgatory was just made up by medieval monks looking from a new revenue stream. There’s no purgatory mentioned in the bible and only one ruler in heaven.

            To me, the version of us that would be ok with eternity would be so far removed from us as to make the line “you will go the heaven” a lie.

            Mostly, people find problems with it as they can’t yet fully let go of eternalism.

            • Laurentide@pawb.social
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              2 months ago

              I’m aware that Purgatory isn’t scriptural, and the community I was raised in believed a lot of stuff that wasn’t found in the Bible. (It’s one of the reasons I left.)

              The point I was trying to make there is not “What is Heaven according to scripture?” I was speculating what heaven would need to be for me to consider it a paradise. And the answer I came to is that no place can be a paradise as long as I’m in it. Not because I think I’m a bad person, but because I have so much trauma and other mental baggage that I would be bringing with me. I would be too suspicious of a place with nothing bad in it to be able to enjoy it. I would unintentionally hurt those around me because of the pain I’m in. And those people would hurt me, and each other, because how many people actually manage to reach a state of complete emotional health before they die? No one is ready for paradise.

              There would need to be a place and a time for healing the traumas of life before we could enter any kind of heaven. For this I borrowed the name Purgatory, because it seems to me a similar concept. And maybe the person who emerged from such a place would be so different that you couldn’t really say they were me anymore, but I think I’m okay with that. I don’t want to stay the person I am now; I want to become something better.

              I guess that doesn’t have much to do with your original point about people not understanding eternity, other than being in agreement that it wouldn’t be a fun thing for humanity as we know it.

  • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    65
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    2 months ago

    Some other phrases you can throw at them for greater impact:

    • God will send you to hell for doing that
    • Jesus would never approve of you
    • You lack God in your life
    • You’re blindly following Satan’s lies
    • Destide@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      ·
      2 months ago

      Remember when he flipped all those tables because people where trading in church. Then the church went ahead and did trading in church, sure he’d love all those private jets and cars.

    • Lord Wiggle@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      2 months ago

      I saw a documentary about them, about a children’s camp. The indoctrination, mind control and child abuse sure would send you to a hell if it would exist. Next to that, the women running the camp were talking in jibberish tonge, which is the devils work according to the Bible. The irony is great.

  • corsicanguppy
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    53
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    2 months ago

    It seems people can join and quit religion. I’m thinking it’s more a choice than biological or sexual preference (which aren’t choices at all).

  • msage@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    44
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    2 months ago

    Thank you so much for posting this, I needed that levity right now.

    I don’t know what happened to me, just suddenly realized that christians are totally nuts and they should not be allowed in any position of power.

    Have faith, no problems there, believing in an existing book as a source of all truths is a bit much, forcing any part of it on anyone else (including their own children) is despicable and should be stopped.

    • Pyr_Pressure
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      Ya I walk my dog past a church and every Sunday when I see the crowd of people there I can’t help but view them as a group of weird cultists, even though it’s pretty vanilla Christianity.

    • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      2 months ago

      This highlights a contradiction between Christianity and the modern secular world. Biblically speaking children are chattel property of their parents. In modern law children have their own universal set of human rights, so essentially by that model children belong to themselves and rightful guardianship goes to a succession of people if parents and family do not follow those rules.

      But you see constant tension with this idea of child being property to do with as one pleases. It’s also the history of why we use the term “disowned”.

      Having grown up under a model of parental stewardship where my parents always saw me as a person they were to train to become an autonomous adult I gotta say the difference between my family and my biblically raised neighbours is pretty stark. That kind of stability has had knock on effects throughout my entire life where I have become a life raft of sorts for friends of mine who grew up with religious trauma.

  • rainynight65@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    40
    ·
    2 months ago

    And the thing is, unlike someone’s sexual orientation, which they are born with, someone’s religious beliefs are actually a choice. A lifestyle, if you so will. They’re not something you’re born with, but something you’re taught.

    • Zetta@mander.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      If no kids were indoctrinated into religion, there would be significantly less religious people, I can dream.

      The majority of people need to be taught religion when their kids to believe in it before they develop their critical thinking skills, once you’re an adult and have critical thinking skills it takes a much more unintelligent or wishful thinking person to invest in the idea of religion.

      • Mushroomm@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        2 months ago

        I like the thought exercise of; consider you as you are now never heard of religion/higher powers/all the gods. Now picture yourself being spoken to by a pastor of the lord Jesus christ. You’d think this guy is absolutely batshit and shouldn’t be out walking around. Certainly at the very least not be allowed to indoctrin more to their causw within a tax free building paid for largely by taxes.

    • Crikeste@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      Indoctrination is a thing, and it is extremely damaging. Both while inside, and also once free. They (the parents) will build their (the child) lives around X people, doing X things, not Y things, and if you do Y things you’re no longer X.

      I’m from Utah. The number of friends I’ve had who were ‘excommunicated’ from their friends, families and lives is huge.

      I do agree with you for the most part, I just think it’s something to understand.

  • cum@lemmy.cafe
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    2 months ago

    You’re desperately giving them the victim seeking mentality they crave

  • OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    2 months ago

    This post doesn’t have a date on it because it’s from like 2010. They’ve moved on to saying the same things about trans people.

  • Lord Wiggle@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    2 months ago

    I prefer to say “aww. Aren’t you a bit old to believe in imaginary friends and faieytales? I mean, I liked Harry Potter but I don’t believe something is real when I read a book about it. And Harry Potter even has seven books.”

    • Shark_Ra_Thanos@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      Good point. I will say that religion taught me the most practical skill. I will never believe in anything, ever. I know better.

      • Lord Wiggle@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        You believe you know better. We all believe in something. Some believe in facts, some believe in fiction.

        • Shark_Ra_Thanos@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 months ago

          No. I don’t “believe” a gorram thing. I refuse.

          I have a grade on how likely my knowledge is solid and nothing more. I don’t need to believe in anything. You’re a sucker. Get over it.