WTAF did they think was going to happen letting Israel act unchecked?
Launch attacks across borders and you fuck with sovereign territory and…checking notes… Those places have a right to defend themselves.
Right, but it’s not really a matter of what did they expect from just standing idly by as Israel brazenly tried to provoke military responses fron Lebanon, Syria, Yemen and Iran, since we’re in this bizarre post-truth timeline in which governments and corporate media just blithely pretend that none of that happened at all
All of the versions of this story that I’ve seen so far either pass over Israel’s provocations entirely, or try to bury them by just mentioning them in passing, in passive voice, and with no assignment of responsibility.
The stock phrase is “Iran vows retaliation after the killing of…”
The mid-phrase shift from active to passive voice is propaganda 101.
Well stated.
Israel wants the escalation
Netanyahu especially in particular.
Now if only US citizens are able to apply the same logic to guns…
“What did you think would happen by arming people to the point where there would be more guns than people in your country?”
Oh god here’s the clown car of obsessed single issue voters.
Speaking of, where’s “fuckcars” to try and make war in the middle east about bicycles somehow?
Lol bad take
WTAF did they think was going to happen letting Israel act unchecked?
Yes, how dare they retaliate to events provoked by Iran? They are going about it terribly, but they were entirely in their rights to do something.
Provoked by Iran? I think you should read some history dude. Nothing happens in vacuum and Israels occupation is the sole reason for 7. October. I do not agree with what Hamas did but thinking that anyone would just sit and watch their home be occupied is ignorant at best. The irony being that Israel funded Hamas. They can thank themselves for those deaths to be completely honest.
"Israel funded Hamas” has to be one of the most backwards takes I’ve seen repeated here.
By that you mean that Israel eased restrictions according to an agreed upon schedule approved by international facilitators, allowed access to more construction materials, and issued more work and travel visas to Gazans. In other words, exactly the things that Palestinian people advocated for.
Do your research. This has been a hidden secret in the international community for decades. Isreal did fund them to keep the tension high between them and the Palestinian authority. When even the foreign menister of my own country confirmed this I was really surprised as well. But nothing should really supprise anyone about this conflict. It’s in Isreals interest to keep this conflict on going.
I respect that you got another opinion but maybe you should look into it and see that it is true. I don’t spread misinformation, that is the worst thing I know about. I try to always have my fact straight.
If you take a moment to actually look into these claims that Israel funded Hamas, you’ll find that it’s exactly what I’m describing.
Please, send me a source that describes exactly what Israel did - not an out of context quote, not a vague accusation, but what specific actions or mechanism Israel used to help Hamas. You will find only actions that Palestinian advocates were calling for.
It’s easy to start from the point of view that Israel is bad and deserves everything that happens to them. It’s a lot harder to look at objective facts and think critically for yourself.
They literally enabled suitcases full of cash into Hamas from Qatar. And he’s said in public statements, it’s important to keep Hamas strong to balance the Palestinian Authority and prevent a Palestinian state.
As I said, they allowed international aid, on an approved schedule. Or do you think that the ruling party of Gaza should not be allowed to move money they raised for the people of Gaza into the strip?
Hamas already raised the money and it was facilitated by Qatar.
Israel is criticized for keeping funds out of Gaza and for letting funds into Gaza? Does that really make sense, or is that what a pundit told you to think?
Israels occupation is the sole reason for 7. October. I do not agree with what Hamas did but
What kind of abuser rationale is this? “Look what you made me do?” That twisted logic is exactly what Israel is using to justify their rampage at the moment. Killing innocent civilians is not OK, full stop.
Okay maybe Israel should have not been doing that since 1948 then
You should take ab_intra’s advice and read some history. People in the middle east didn’t discover violence in 1948.
There sure is a place that popped up in 1948 that has carte Blanche to do whatever the fuck they want to surrounding areas because they have a trillion dollar war machine mommy that comes calling every time she hears baby cry foul.
I guess you skipped all that in your perusing of Wikipedia summaries.
I can’t take seriously anybody who throws around any single date as the beginning of conflict in the ME.
Of course not, but there was a people that wasn’t in the middle east doing violence until that period.
Ooof you really went full Nazi on that one, eh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews
I’m with you on violence bad, but if you were to consider Nat Turner’s rebellion, where many enslaved Africans escaped their captors and murdered white Americans (including women and children), as justification for slave owning Americans being unjustly brutal towards Africans and prohibiting them from learning to read, most people would justly tell you to fuck off and say those people that thought they could own other human beings based solely on the color of their skin should be condemned for all eternity. Hell they might even say those Africans didn’t kill enough of those evil whites
I’d say, you’ll never achieve peace by attacking the other side, but you can only achieve peace if both sides want it. White Americans in the South during 1938 absolutely did not want peace with African Americans in much the same way Israelis don’t want peace with Palestinians today. It’s oversimplified but this feeling has always gone mostly one way. Black Americans have mostly just wanted peace, they don’t want revenge. The same goes for Palestinians. It’s truly amazing how hard it is/was for many white Americans and Israelis to learn and accept that fact.
most people would justly tell you to fuck off
You need better friends if any of them condone the murder of children in any circumstances.
If they were justifying slavery because a few dudes killed some kids?
Uhh… I don’t think you understoood what I wrote.
I’m specifically saying it doesn’t matter how many kids one mob of people killed in comparison to the sanctioning and proliferation of chattel slavery for the sole purpose of increasing profits for a few wealthy white men.
Personally, if someone told me ‘yeah, slavery was bad but there was this one group of slaves that killed a bunch of kids so actually slavery was kinda justified.’ Well, I’d have to disagree and I’d tell them to stop talking to me. And then I’d think what a … (censored so I don’t get banned)
in comparison
Who the fuck said anything about a comparison? Killing children is bad. Full stop. Like seriously, just stop there. No comparisons, no deflections, no justifications. No other issues required.
Killing. Children. Is. Bad.
Ridiculous I have to spell that out, what the fuck is wrong with y’all.
I’m with you on violence bad, but if you were to consider Nat Turner’s rebellion, where many enslaved Africans escaped their captors and murdered white Americans (including women and children), as justification for slave owning Americans being unjustly brutal towards Africans and prohibiting them from learning to read, most people would justly tell you to fuck off and say those people that thought they could own other human beings based solely on the color of their skin should be condemned for all eternity. Hell they might even say those Africans didn’t kill enough of those evil whites
I can understand killing their former owner, but not random civilians who had the misfortune of being born white.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Hamas tortured and slaughtered hundreds of random civilians at a music festival.
Maybe you don’t understand it, but that’s exactly what’s happening to the 15 to 25,000 children killed by Israel in retaliation for 7-Oct.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Hamas tortured and slaughtered hundreds of random civilians at a music festival.
You: immediately loses sight
I agree, which is why you’ll note that I’m not defending Israel’s actions. I said they were entitled to do something, but not this. Keep swinging at that strawman, though.
I totally get that. I’m not saying it’s cool or anything. I’m specifically saying if we use that relatively minor **retaliation ** as justification to be 10x worse or 1000x worse then it almost doesn’t matter what the they did because it’s not even comparable.
I’ll be honest, personally, of all the American history I’ve learned I couldn’t care less about what the group led by Nat Turner did to the group literally led by the various presidents of the US. It barely registers. It’s more like random gang violence driven by ignorant, emotional passion, where as what Americans were doing was legit calculated genocide (destroying culture, in this case, since obviously they were still breading people for profit) - it was done methodically and done to maximize profits and political power.
I totally get that. I’m not saying it’s cool or anything. I’m specifically saying if we use that relatively minor **retaliation ** as justification to be 10x worse or 1000x worse then it almost doesn’t matter what the they did because it’s not even comparable.
I agree, and can’t defend what Israel are doing. The irony is that both sides are essentially doing the same thing that they accuse the other of doing. They are both hyper-aggressive, racist zealots. I don’t know what kind of “reset” could make it stop.
I’ll be honest, personally, of all the American history I’ve learned I couldn’t care less about what the group led by Nat Turner did to the group literally led by the various presidents of the US. It barely registers. It’s more like random gang violence driven by ignorant, emotional passion, where as what Americans were doing was legit calculated genocide (destroying culture, in this case, since obviously they were still breading people for profit) - it was done methodically and done to maximize profits and political power.
I’m not American and never heard of this incident until today, so I can’t provide an informed comment. I think I agree with your assessment in general, other than the killing of innocents. I understand why they did it but I can’t condone it.
The year is 2057. Israel sits upon the ashes of the rest of the world. “If only they had stopped provoking us,” it whispers into the emptiness.
I guess that’s actually Israel’s wet dream.
Someone check the pizza trackers around the Pentagon. If it’s busy, we are in trouble
But I’ve read they have since mitigated the traceability of their pizza eating through various means.
Someone finally got the green light on the pizza oven in the white house project they’ve been harrassing the budget committee about for five years.
Man, I can only imagine how much specialized kitchen equipment the Whitehouse has been stocked with over time. I bet they can make fuckin’ anything
There’s a comedic bit about that in one of those pulp thrillers. The President keeps trying to trip up the chef by requesting weird stuff, but the kitchen always comes through. But at the end of the book, the President sits down exhausted and just asks for a grilled American cheese sandwich—but they’re out of American.
I’m sure that in reality, if they didn’t have something, they’d send a runner to go pick it up real quick. Or nowadays, maybe doordash.
When the president wants Thai yellow curry today and menudo tomorrow, you make it for them.
The U.S. Pizza Industrial Complex solution would be to constantly have a high number of pizza orders being fulfilled by various vendors across the tri state area, filling vast salt mine vaults with a strategic pizza reserve, thereby hiding the signal amongst the noise.
They absolutely have not, though. They just took down the one guy’s tracker site that went viral
Tensions have been rising since early October, when Hamas launched a surprise assault on southern Israel, killing about 1,200 people and kidnapping about 250 others.
Israel’s subsequent war in Gaza has killed nearly 40,000 people
Hmmmm. Commensurate? Worth it?
Keep in mind this is an undercount of Palestinian death.
I’ve heard counts well over 100,000.
Keep in mind that 67,000 of those deaths are women and children.If that is their contribution to the world, Israel deserves no allies. Disarm them. Alienate them. Embargo them. Let them know what it’s like to go at it alone.
Thats a casualty estimate, not a death toll. Although the Death Toll is absolutely too low an estimate, in part because Israel bombed out of existence the offices who administrate the counting.
I did not know that, thank you.
Yes, that includes injured and missing estimates.
There is actually a word for that, “casualties.”
Doesn’t “casualty” just mean someone killed or injured?
Precisely. In some contexts it also defines damages other than.
To be fair, they’re discriminately bombing a place with a lot of children. I don’t think they’re specifically targeting women or children, they just kill everyone. Some might call it a genocide.
That’s what we call a “proportionate response” here in the ol’ Murica land.
Throwback to when a North Korean gun battery hit the USS Wisconsin with a single 155mm shot from a mountainside. It was the first and only time the ship had been hit from the shore. It hit some shielding, and caused little to no damage. In response, the warship turned all of her 16 inch guns on the mountainside, and obliterated it.
The USS Duncan, which was escorting the USS Wisconsin during their patrols, (and saw the hit and subsequent bombardment,) signaled “temper temper” before resuming patrols.
“WHAT mountain…?”
“Shots came from that direction.”
“Copy. Eliminating that direction.”
That doesn’t seem that bad of a response to me, it’s a battery not a residential hillside.
Giving someone the idea they can just take practice shots at ships whenever they wants is idiotic.
If they drove by taking shots every day for the next 30 days and then started invading with land troops it would be more comparable.
That’s not the only thing Hamas have done, there have been a few other incidents over the decades… And the only reason Hamas have not done to Israel what Israel are doing right now is because they don’t have enough guns. Honestly I’m just surprised it took Israel this long to do this.
I’m not saying what Israel is doing is right, far from it, I’m saying they’re both so far below the level of acceptably decent people!
And the only reason Hamas have not done to Israel what Israel are doing right now is because they don’t have enough guns.
So you want to punish them for things they haven’t done?
No, I’m just pointing out they’re both fucking awful
.
I’m not convinced that murdering 1200 people is defensible even if the retaliation is also not defensible. Both sides are fucking awful. Whether one side is less awful than the other is irrelevant. i do the vague thing because I don’t care about the details, it doesn’t matter who killed more innocent people they’re both mass murdering authoritarian ultraconservative (if not outright fascists, and that irony is not lost on me) states. Every time this comes up someone like you goes “Waaah! Israel are worse!” and yes they are in actions (if not intentions - they’re about the same), but that’s not really relevant when both are so far below even a little bit defensible.
The best thing to do, IMO, would be to take the leadership ALL the leadership, of both states and lock them in a single room with two knives and no food, then melt the key. Then tell the populations of both countries not to elect such idiots and let them try again! Not gonna happen but a man can dream
.
That’s also not the only thing Israel has done. And Hamas was kept in power over Palestinians due to the actions of Israel leaders including Netanyahu who once personally facilitated the groups funding.
Yes they’re both fucking awful
Sure, Hamas and Israel both are, but Palestine are the mostly innocent rug those two walk across.
I just think it should be stated despite what Hamas has done, Israel is not justified.
Have I ever said otherwise? I think I said exactly that when I said I was not defending Israel at all
According to AP
The Qatari aid went to some 100,000 needy families and to pay the salaries of civil servants in the Hamas-run government.
You’re right. This was one major horrifying attack in October, but there have been many over the years.
I don’t pretend to know what is a correct response. Overall it’s horrible for everyone.
So, no VP candidate announcement today? I hope this doesn’t delay it beyond tomorrow.
they announced earlier that it would be announced Tues morning.
Just let them
Israel would use nukes if facing an existential threat.
Yeah but no one in the middle east has the power to give Israel an existential threat.
Iran doesn’t want an offensive or escalation because it would be incredibly in favor of Israel who has the latest and greatest in warfare tech and the backing of the USA.
Biden is probably more worried that Israel is going to use Iran’s attack as justification for ramping up his offensive in Gaza, which will hurt his reputation even further.
Iran doesn’t want an offensive or escalation because it would be incredibly in favor of Israel who has the latest and greatest in warfare tech and the backing of the USA.
Even before considering that, Iran does not border Israel and has several semi-hostile nations between it and Israel. Logistically, a full attack is just not possible for them.
This is Israel’s punishment for failing to remove Netanyahu. It’s sad but not surprising in the least.
Well well well, if it isn’t the consequences of Israel’s own actions. I’m surprised none of the christards on the right and cheering this as the eminent arrival of the end times. I love pointing and laughing every time these religious wackadoos are wrong about the arrival of Armageddon yet again. Not that they ever freaking learn.
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