Now if only they would actually turn out to vote in larger numbers…
Exactly, more than half of registered voters are over 50. So polling 50+ year olds would definitely be better data.
With all the new anti-voting laws, what percentage of young people can actually register to vote? Do they have valid ID? Can they get it? My grandmother died years ago, but she managed to make it 97 years without ever owning a photo ID. She didn’t drive, but she had a voter card and the bank knew her by sight as well as signature. In today’s world, I’m pretty sure she’d be disqualified from voting.
They are, but they are holding the numbers ransom to see whose camp pays more to either have them released or suppress them.
i wish i understood why people have such a large blind spot when it comes to gerrymandering and voter suppression.
both combined with extremely unpopular politicans and policies (ie gaza genocide) are the reason why people aren’t voting; but somehow, people are still confused as to why voters aren’t voting.
Neither are a problem in the European countries that I’m aware of yet young voter turnout is catastrophic there as well. Some parties definitely have a hard anti-Israel line. I’d be happy to see a counterexample but I think only bitter disappointment lays ahead.
Young people are increasingly disengaged from the “traditional” democratic process, globally. Less voter turnout, but also way less participation in traditional politics (which 25 year olds have a party membership card anymore?)
Interestingly though, Gen Z isn’t necessarily politically inactive; they are still being activists, engaging in political discourse, and are donating a larger average percentage of their income than Gen X/Y IIRC.
That’s not to excuse the extremely shortsighted decision not to vote, but the problem is a lot larger than some practical barriers. I truly think there are strong and multifaceted cultural elements to the youths increasingly not responding to the traditional representative democratic systems in the way that generations who grew up on TV did. Gerrymandering is bad, but don’t expect a hypothetical fix to bring zoomers to the voting centers.
… but the problem is a lot larger than some practical barriers. …
i think that voter suppression and gerrymandering are less of a problem for younger voters and that the problem is more likely shitty candidates and shitty policies driving down enthusiasm/desire to vote.
While gerrymandering and voter suppression aren’t nothing, the system is just completely incapable of responding to signals it never receives. If you don’t vote, the system is not incentivized or designed to promote people who have your political interests in mind. There’s a lot of critical reforms that need to happen, none of them as urgent as ranked choice voting, but as little as your vote means for a federal election:
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It means A LOT MORE for local elections, and these people have a shocking amount of power for how much people care about local races.
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It’s still at least some signal to the system that can be interpreted or responded to. It can’t hurt. Throw your vote away on RFK or the Libertarian Party if you want. Hell, I voted for Jorgensen last election. But I’m telling you that not voting when you could is almost always going to lead to the worst possible outcome for people who share your political interests.
While gerrymandering and voter suppression aren’t nothing, the system is just completely incapable of responding to signals it never receives. If you don’t vote, the system is not incentivized or designed to promote people who have your political interests in mind. There’s a lot of critical reforms that need to happen, none of them as urgent as ranked choice voting, but as little as your vote means for a federal election
since you’re not seeing the circular reasoning here; i’ll try to make it more apparent: how do you vote when your vote is blocked?
It’s not blocked as much as it’s made more and more difficult, because they can’t hard block it (yet). So, the best advice, if you actually want advice and not just to bitch on the internet (it’s fine if that’s all you want, btw), is to organize. Organization is the single most powerful tool in political efforts, full stop. Examine the problem that affects voters in a given area and organize with the explicit goal of helping voters overcome those barriers. I’m not just talking about getting people to the polls, I’m talking demanding local policy changes, getting after state legislators, yelling at anyone who will (and many who won’t) listen, organize and run local campaigns for city council or county supervisor. Those races can actually be competitive in deep red/blue areas, especially if locals know a particular person on their team is a shithead. Those positions also hold a shocking amount of power, and open up political communication channels that would otherwise be inaccessible. Idk if you’re a communist, and I don’t care, the American communists of the 1800s didn’t just sit back and wait for the US to collapse, they got out there and faced likely being murdered to try and organize slaves to break up an unjust system. Get outside and stomp some grass if you want to see something different, bitching on the internet won’t change anything.
we agree on this; our signals got crossed somewhere.
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Real problems are often used as convenient excuses to justify laziness. At the end of the day it’s your job as a citizen to do whatever it takes to vote. If you want it to be easier then jump through the hoops that currently exist to vote for the only party offering a way to remove some of them. If you don’t vote at all then your opinion is irrelevant. That’s the reality of the world we live in.
real world problems are the first words in your response; but it seems that you ignore them.
if the choice comes down to voting or pissing off your employer to take off to go vote; it’s a real world problem and you’re going to stay at work.
if the choice comes down to commuting home and make dinner for your kids or spending hours in line in a place like houston to go vote; it’s a real world problem and you’re going to go home to make that dinner.
i suspected that laziness was the knee jerk reaction that people had when it came to voter suppression and you’re coming from lemmy.world so that tracks and explains why republicans win elections despite there being so much fewer of them than democrats when democrats also don’t give a fuck.
It took you a lot of words to say “but sometimes it can be hard to vote”. We all know that, but it’s still your job as a citizen to overcome those obstacles. If you don’t figure out a way to do so then it’s only going to get worse. You can call that mean or apathetic or whatever other descriptor you like but it isn’t going to change the situation. Voting could though.
I’m not sure what that weird instance gatekeeping rant was about. Seems like the whinging of the terminally online to me but maybe I’m missing something.
the entirety of my response is summed up by practicing empathy for other people and it’s clear you lack that empathy from your response.
i recommend that you give empathy a try to help dislodge your callousness so that things can improve for humanity.
This isn’t the god damn care bears. Empathy is not going to fix this problem. Voting is the only thing that will. If pointing that out makes me an asshole then I’ll happily accept that label. It’s better than whatever fatalistic psychotherapeutic nonsense you’re trying to peddle. Actions solve problems, not good vibes. Pull your head out of your ass.
empathy is just the start; it’ll help you realize why things are fucked and you can take meaningful action from there.
i used to be like you and it wasn’t until the anti-gay, anti-immigrant and anti-student laws fucked my life hard that i developed that sense of empathy that i’m imploring you to develop before things get worse for all of us.
I mean, your view is fucked, but they come from .ml so I wouldn’t put much into their gatekeeping
OK, but what’s the alternative? All I see is people making excuses for doing nothing and I don’t see how that helps anything. People need to vote in spite of the difficulties, not feel better about not voting because it’s not as easy as it should be.
It is literally made difficult on purpose and you are excusing it
People are tired of Dementia Don the racist rapist with 34 felonies that can’t complete a coherent sentence. He’s just too old. It’s embarrassing. He needs to drop out.
The younger you are, the more likely you will be screwed by Traitorapist Trump on:
The Neofascist threat to America and democracy and the rule of law.
The younger you are, the more likely you will be screwed by Traitorapist Trump on:
Nuclear Proliferation resulting from Treason Trump’s New World Disorder. Every country and their brother is going to scramble for nuclear weapons now.
The younger you are, the more likely you will be screwed by Traitorapist Trump on:
Climate Chaos. NASA says this causes increased hurricanes, droughts, floods, wildfires, heat waves, and rising sea levels. All of which cause economic hardships and death.
The younger you are, the more likely you will be screwed by Traitorapist Trump on:
The Corrupt Supreme Court enshitifying our country by inserting radical changes in the constitution.
The younger you are, the more likely you will be screwed by Traitorapist Trump on:
Increased National Debt caused by gigantic GOP tax cuts for the wealthy
The younger you are, the more likely you will be screwed by Traitorapist Trump on:
Abortion bans. This has been killing women who didn’t even want abortions by denying them appropriate medical care
The younger you are, the more likely you will be screwed by Traitorapist Trump on:
Income inequality. We are caught in a vicious circle where gigantic GOP tax cuts for the wealthy give them more money to enshitify the country which results is more gigantic GOP tax cuts for the wealthy. Rent seekers always pull up the ladder for those coming up behind them.
The younger you are, the more likely you will be screwed by Traitorapist Trump on:
Trump’s promise to billionaires to drive down wages by giving away unlimited green cards to foreign workers who graduate from American colleges.
Nuclear Proliferation resulting from Treason Trump’s New World Disorder. Every country and their brother is going to scramble for nuclear weapons now.
This point is very underappreciated in many political corners, including Lemmy. It’s taken decades of deft maneuvering, including by otherwise foes, to keep nuclear weapon proliferation under anything close to control. Trump’s pull out of the JCPOA was an unforgivable act of self-sabotage by a man with an uneducated, brutish understanding of foreign policy. Likewise with other policies that are meant to ensure that non-nuclear countries don’t feel like they need nukes and nuclear countries don’t feel like they’re in an arms race.
This point is very underappreciated in many political corners, including Lemmy.
Yeah that’s why I put it 2nd. It is not 2nd in people’s minds. But it is the 2nd most serious thing in reality.
I’m not sure I agree with your last point. While skilled foreign labor (H1B or similar) certainly drives down wages, part of that is because of the restrictions on employment. If you need to be sponsored, it is very hard to get the prevailing local wage for your skills. Green cards open that up and allow proper competition.
The biggest argument is that foreign-born workers are willing to accept lower wages for the same work and the same conditions. This is exactly what happened during the days of “No Irish Need Apply”. The big difference here is that it would only apply to college graduates. But is it actually wrong to do? It’s similar to a bad union, where people feel entitled to the higher pay simply because they were here first.
While it would still be better to encourage and grow our own people to develop the skills needed, this is a much more complicated proposal. We have a distinct lack of skilled workers, and in a variety of types/areas. This could help with that need.
I fully agree on the rest though. Fuck Trump and everyone around him.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/donald-trump-immigration-expansionist/
We have a distinct lack of skilled workers, and in a variety of types/areas.
No we do not. That’s propaganda from the wealthy elites to drive down American wages. There are tons of people even in STEM or computer fields who can not get jobs in their majors.
This is exactly what happened during the days of “No Irish Need Apply”. The big difference here is that it would only apply to college graduates.
It’s totally different. The “No Irish” signs were about people who had already immigrated here. That stuff was both racist and completely pointless since they were all already here and obviously needed to work. Nothing to do with today. Trump’s going to hand out green cards to the entire world to come here and work an American job. China alone has 1.2 billion people. India alone has 1.4 billion people. Basic law of supply and demand. Increase supply of workers and lower wages and working conditions and worker bargaining power. Also, good luck getting your kid into college ever again.
As someone in IT, I can tell you that it is incredibly hard to fill most of our common sysadmin roles. We don’t even get applicants with the desired qualifications (SCCM, Azure, VMware, MS SQL, Power Shell, etc. Not in the same role, but these common skills). This is despite the fact that we’re competitive on pay, allow fully remote, and are a household name (fortune 100). I sincerely doubt that we’re alone on that.
As for your point about unemployed STEM grads, it’s entirely possible that they are in an area that has a surplus. But it’s also possible they are inexperienced (most employers want experience), or they don’t know how to connect with the employers looking for their skill set.
I’m not saying that I’m sold on the idea. Just that it’s not entirely clear what the impact would be, nor that it would be a net negative.
I don’t think the problem is with the foreign people accepting lower wages and forcing more competition. I believe it is more of a symptom/mechanism of wage theft. Which has been going on for decades to bleed the workforce dry and enslave them through unrepayable debts.
Though I believe foreign graduates taking less pay for employment is not the problem or inherently bad, it’s not helping workers as a whole.
I believe that in addition to your suggestions there would need to be stronger wage and worker protection laws to prevent companies from clearing out employees with longer tenure/higher rates of pay before enacting this specific type of policy.
I think that would allow for a more healthy competition where incumbent workers/natural citizens won’t be replaced/undercut by foreign graduates who have to debase themselves by taking lesser pay for the same work.
In my opinion it’s as if Trump would do this as a way to weaponize cheaper labor against the working class so corporations can improve their margin by slashing labor costs.
I could be totally wrong, and am open to other opinions but maybe that’s where OP’s line of thinking may be.
LETS GO…VOTE, or we’re all going to be second class citizens…don’t let the right seal out freedoms to impose their version of Sharia law (that’s what Vance wants, the bootleg Christian version. ) it’s Ironic that the folks pushing this shit would go to war of Sharia was forced on them
we’re all going to be second class citizens
Who is gonna tell him the truth lol
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Ahhh, the group that doesn’t vote
The age group that is the most disenfranchised, yes
There is no excuse not to vote.
I think “not being able to put a roof over my head or food in my mouth” is a perfectly valid reason not to vote, but go off
I think that is all the more reason to vote
“I’m suffering so I want to… keep suffering”
Not voting is how this country got to that point. But, go off.
Ahhh, shitting on the most disenfranchised age segment on our country. Surely, shitting on them will make them vote and feel good about doing it.
Maybe celebrate the fact that they’re even willing to still try to participate, before talking shit regarding an election that hasn’t even happened yet?
Statistics.
Empathy and understanding may improve those stats in your favor, rather than whatever it is you’re doing right now. Telling zoomers and millennials that they won’t vote before you even give them a chance probably won’t motivate them to vote.
You are making assumptions of what I’m “doing” based on who you want me to be for some online argument. You don’t know me.
No, I’m not making assumptions. You did that by automatically assuming young people wouldn’t vote. I even said “whatever it is that you’re doing” in my last comment. Does that sound like an assumption to you?
I don’t care who you are. Your original attitude will not cause the younger vote to want to turn out. You are working against your interests (that is, if you want the dems to win, in which case, sure, I assumed that is what you wanted).
Statistics show that range is less likely to vote. It’s not saying anything other than that or making any assumptions as to why.
Statistics are trending in the other direction. Why not talk about that instead of demoralizing the young voter base any further?
Awesome
That’s supposed to be a bad thing? Lol
It simply shows how disillusioned the new generations are about a false dilemma and that they seek a change these two clown parties can’t offer. Hard to do so when both are funded by the same interests. So I’d say that with pride if I were you
I wonder if these numbers will at all be affected by her support for Israel and its genocide of Palestinians.
I’m more upset about her being mad about burning flags. Not so upset that I wouldn’t vote for her, but I’ve got a right to burn a flag because I don’t like what it represents and as a prosecutor she should know that.
They will be lightly affected by her denouncing some of the protestors (which is separate from supporting Israel and its genocide), yes. Remember that the Jewish voting bloc is also primarily democratic. If your concern is politics in this situation, it’s a very fine line that Dem politicians have to walk here.
Edit: I’m just gonna back out of this thread. I’m not supportive of the genocide, but yall also don’t want to have an actual conversation.
My concern is for the Palestinians being driven from their homes and murdered by Israel and the US.
The question was centered on politics, so that’s what I addressed. Harris is running a campaign, so she is also centered around politics right now. It sucks but it’s how our world works right now.
Fuck walking that line don’t kill kids.
Its not just that denounced some of the protestors. It’s that this is the only thing she found worthy of mentioning in an official statement about the protests.
Agreed, I would like to have seen some statements on Netanyahu’s many falsehoods in the speech. That’s not generally going to be done via press release though and I doubt she would overstep the current president on criticizing foreign leaders.
I would say it is far more likely due to her history of supporting Israel and netanyhu, rather than her being pro Palestine but very compromising.
She’s a lot more borderline on the issue than Biden. Her speech in December-ish was fairly critical of Israel’s behavior up to that point and she called for a ceasefire pretty early on in comparison to others in the admin. She also normally would have presided over the speech Netanyahu gave this week, but chose not to. Is it enough? No, not really, but she’s the VP and effectively a figurehead. I think it bodes well for at least a small shift in stance if she makes it in though. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Nah Id vote for half a ham sammich with bad Mayo over geriatric dementia don. He’s just so old
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It might be if you keep telling people
Not for long:
