Biden is well past his prime, had a shitty performance last night, hate his record on Israel, but I’m still voting for him because he’s not Trump and I’d prefer that our representative democracy continued. Moving to a braindead, functionally illiterate dictatorship just seems like an all-around worse move in every respect. Not sure about his chances, but whatever, there’s not really any other alternative at this point.
Can you tell me what makes you believe that Trump is or will be a dictator? Don’t use Jan 6th.
I can waste my time going through that exercise, but it’s pretty clear to any thinking person that that’s what the plan is on the Republican side, just look at the words, rhetoric and actions they’ve been taking for the past 10+ years. Otherwise, you’re maliciously asking me to go through the mental effort of writing up an attack on Trump that you’ve already decided to ignore and/or counter with some feeble bad faith argument. You’re a waste of my time and everybody else’s.
Ah okay… so you’re full of chit as per usual. Let me guess, Maddow is your favorite all-time commentator?
Why don’t YOU go ahead and write me up a 2-page essay on why Trump isn’t planning a dictatorship, cite your sources. That’s essentially what you’re asking me to do and it’s guaranteed you’ll give a short, flippant remark that doesn’t actually address any of the issues brought up, basically wasting my time. It’ll be a bunch of whataboutism, gaslighting, misdirection, and BS, that’s the standard MO.
The answer is simple. Because of the U.S. Constitution. It’s not just a piece of paper.
Congrats on doing exactly what they said you would.
That’s the only answer needed. No one is becoming a dictator in the U.S.
A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.
He wants to ignore or terminate the constitution.
Election fraud means the election would be voided and it would have to go to contingent election? I forget the process. I have no idea wtf Trump is talking about.
I’m not a, “MAGA” soldier. Quite frankly he’s just the better option of the two.
Constitution only matters if it is being enforced. And 2017-2020 showed us that very few Republicans were willing to do that.
Currently SCOTUS is debating whether president has absolute immunity (in other words, if he can commit any crime, including murdering his political opponents) something that is absolutely against our constitution, yet they have to debate it.
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I looked it up too because that’s wild.
chit /CHit/ noun a short official note, memorandum, or voucher, typically recording a sum owed. "write out a chit for whatever you take from the drinks cupboard"Removed by mod
Because I’ve never heard nor read someone use, “chit” instead of “shit” and come to find out it’s an actual word (excluding chitchat) with multiple meanings.
I’m intentionally using, “chit”… being that I’m Latino and if you ever heard a boater Latino say shit, it sounds like chit.
The more you know!
Don’t use the time he instigated a coupe attempt as a reason?
Can you tell me why putting my hand on an electric burner that is red hot is a bad idea? Don’t use anyone’s past experiences being burned by hot objects.
Sure you could technically go into a complex explanation using physics as to why it’s a bad idea, but why?
My defense is the U.S. Constitution. I don’t see it as even a possibility that anyone would attempt to become a dictator in the U.S.
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I agree, I dislike when congress gets bypassed.
The constitution is decided by the Supreme Court in the end. The American system of government makes the selection of justices political appointees for life. That is why you have Republican and Democrat justices. Political. So the constitution gets bent into any political shape according to power possession.
Don’t for a second believe that the United States can’t sleepwalk into a dictatorship. People are already describing Jan 6 as an ordinary tourist visit. What will it take for the public to see the danger with their own eyes.
Hm… that makes sense. We slept walked into this clown world in the Western world. Good point.
I highly recommend “On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century” by historian Timothy Snyder If you can’t get a book or audio book the author also reads it on YouTube.
Hey, thanks for the recommendation!
The Constitution is a piece of paper and says whatever 6 Republicans think it says.
Regardless, SCOTUS has no actual enforcement mechanism. Whoever can order the guys with guns is in charge just like everywhere else in the world.
It can absolutely happen. Nothing stopping a republic from becoming a dictatorship. If it happened once in history, it will happen again. This thing in particular has happened multiple times. The US may show more resilience but in the end, it is a human system run by humans, and it will be broken by humans.
If inciting an attack on the capital and destabilizing the worlds oldest democracy doesn’t immediately discount Trump from your voting decisions then you’re braindead lol. Imagine trying to argue past that, despite 9 years of existing with Trump as a political figure.
destabilizing the worlds oldest democracy
What did he do to San Marino???
You right lmaooo. That’s funny, I guess I should say oldest democracy with real world power.
Have you been paying attention to the details of Jan 6th? So far it looks like it was a setup, completely out of Trump’s control.
Before you respond, have you been paying attention to the details of Jan 6th?
The details like Trump saying he loved the insurrectionists? Yeah, I paid attention to that.
Lmao. Cite them sources or me saying Trump blows maggoty cum all over Melania is literally as true as that statement.
Yeah, sure. And what prompted trump to show up in DC in January 6th, which before 2021 was day that didn’t have any special meaning in US history?
So - ignoring the time he sent a mob to try and overthrow the US government, how about we use the fact that he literally said he’d be a dictator?
Or maybe the fact that his legal defense against trying to overthrow the government was that the President is immune from all crimes. His lawyers even literally said he could have his political opponents murdered, and so long as the surviving politicians don’t impeach and convict him he can’t be held liable for it.
They’re arguing a legal framework under which he can murder the opposition, and then kill anyone that tries to remove him from office.
Bake me a bread, but don’t use any flour or water!
Lol
“Do not use an incredibly concrete example”
- He has said he plans on being a dictator for day one.
- He regularly talks like a dictator jailing and killing his political opponents.
- Even if he were to win a second term, he is to egotistical to let it go a second time.
- Hes putins little bitch who looks up to him, so of course he would want to be as great as the greatestness of putin.
I just wanted to add that I’m pretty sure Trump is jealous that Putin has something that he doesn’t… owning an entire country.
He wants to be like Putin and Kim Jong Un and is playing some warped version of “keeping up with the Joneses” to the detriment of our entire country. It’s a disgusting display of self absorption I never thought possible.
That’s literally it. He’s going to try to become a dictator so he can boost his fucking ego and not be ‘outdone’ by someone else.
He has said he plans on being a dictator for day one.
Source?
He regularly talks like a dictator jailing and killing his political opponents.
This is literally Biden and Co… This includes Obama and Hilary. Obviously you have a source for this too, right? Surely you have literal videos of his speeches/rallies where he speaks like a dictator announcing he’s going to jail and or kill his political opponents.
Personally, when Trump wins, I think he should definitely pull a Bukele and have all politicians on all sides investigated for corruption, including the DOJ, the FBI, and the CIA.
Hes putins little bitch who looks up to him, so of course he would want to be as great as the greatestness of putin.
Russia-gate is and was all BS… If you’re referring to that. Trump’s commentary of Putin was really no different than Kim Jong Un of North Korea. Also, the cold war is over. Hating Russia today just because politicians do, is mindless drone territory.
mindless drone territory
The only part of this you seem qualified to weigh in on.
His own words at 55 seconds. Typically the people who say “I’ll only take power temporarily” never give it back.
Like the camel’s nose, once you let a little bit of dictatorship into your country, you soon find out there is no room left for democracy.
What democracy?
Voltaire said, “A witty saying proves nothing.” In your case, this only partly applies.
You see the irony here right?
I wouldn’t classify it was witty. Pithy, succinct, a truism, sure, but not particularly notable beyond who said it.
If I was looking for a witty saying by Voltaire, I would go with, “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” Note also that it’s value is not because it is witty, which I believe it is, but because of the content of the words. Unlike your words, which I can only hope was an attempt to be witty, yet also had no content.
Only for one day, wink wink.
Ohh… I thought you meant from day one.
Yeah, I wish I was God for 1 day. Lots of cleaning up to do.
He told Hannity he would be dictator for one day. No dictator goes one day. One is too many to begin with.
Heitterslly said he would be.
Lol at supposedly asking an open question, while simultaneously stipulating that the open rebellion cannot be mentioned. That’s not how open questions work.
Can you tell me why Hitler was a bad person? Don’t use the holocaust.
Persecution of male homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, pacifists, the mentally ill / disabled, and political opponents. Stealing thousands of mostly Slavic children from their parents and having them adopted by ethnic Germans.
He said he would in exactly those words.
Don’t use Jan 6th
explain why you think he’s authoritarian, but don’t talk about that time he instigated a failed fascist coup
I’ll admit, if you move the goalposts like that it gets a lot harder to score.
Not American, and hate Trump and Biden equally. I say vote Trump. He’s the slim shady of US politics - he’s only giving you things you say with your friends inside of your living room, the only difference is he’s got the balls to say it in front of you all and don’t have to sugar coat it at all.
So instead of avoiding your discomfort of acknowledging what the US is, just vote trump and let it be clear to everyone
Or not. It doesn’t matter what you do, Trump is winning anyway. You guys are going to have cheetos man for president whether you, or we, like it or not.
Yea the things my family who likes him says in the living room is mostly ignorant compilations of how they think the government works and dumb white trash racist garbage so no thanks.
My point was entirely that the US taken as a whole is white trash racist garbage, but ok.
So your logic is that supporting garbage is better than supporting the anti-garbage because it makes clear to everyone that you and everybody else are supporting garbage? Don’t you think voting Trump because “he will win” is a self-fulfulling prophecy?
This person lives in London, that pretty much says everything you need to know about whether they should be weighing in on this situation.
Yeah homie, you tell yourself that it’s YOUR SINGLE VOTE that’s going to. Make all the difference haha.
You got a loicense to be online bruv?
Ahh see the fatal flaw there is that you assume Biden is anti-garbage. That’s your mistake, right there. But your tribalism won’t allow you to admit that. So, feel free to respond if you like, but I’m out.
Trump is garbage. Biden is running against Trump. Therefore, Biden is the anti-garbage. Basic reasoning, man.
Jesus, this is third grade level. Best of luck to you dude.
I mean with sweep generalizations like that you’d fit right in with the MAGA crowd, no wonder you like trump lol.
That’s not the whole US, just mostly the south.
he’s only giving you things you say with your friends inside of your living room, the only difference is he’s got the balls to say it in front of you all and don’t have to sugar coat it at all.
Things like what, exactly? We must be hanging out in different living rooms.
If Trump was in my living room, I’d spit in his face. He’s so far removed from how I live my life, it’s hard for me to even acknowledge people like him exist.
Nice try tankie Biden is still less embarassing than trump was
I work in Finance in London, lol, tankie is nice. You will keep saying what you said even after Biden shits his pants live on CNN. Do you fam, I dgaf.
And they’d still be correct, I would prefer a man who shits himself on live television every single day, over Trump. No contest. I’d vote in a potted cactus before I vote Trump. What the fuck is wrong with you.
I would vote for a cactus before either of them. We had a lettuce outlast a PM over here a short while ago. But you are blind if you see any fucking difference between them, dude.
Like, I was telling my 2 year old last night he could have the dinosaur Pj’s or the elephant Pj’s for bed. But it was IMPLICIT that he is going to bed.
Similarly, it is IMPLICIT that you and all other Americans are going to be exploited, and brown people are going to be killed, but you can pick the red guy to do it, or the blue guy.
Similarly, it is IMPLICIT that you and all other Americans are going to be exploited, and brown people are going to be killed, but you can pick the red guy to do it, or the blue guy.
And that is no excuse to explicitly support the far more vocal and exploitative of the two, cheering forth the exploitation and murder because “BoTh sIDeS aRe GoiNg tO DO iT!” Fuck that. One side at least has the decency to appear publicly shameful of it. The other revels in it, where the cruelty is the point. If both sides are the same then I’m going to pick the side with a veneer of civility because to do otherwise is to give up entirely on any hope for a future. If both sides aren’t the same then we all know which color is going to end up on the right side of history, that isn’t even a question. So regardless how IMPLICIT it is that America is fucked up shit creek, it’s also EXPLICIT that the average voter doesn’t get much of a say in it and we can only either vote for ineffective neoliberalism, or vote to actively set our own faces on fire.
“I hate the way everything is. Candidate A will make everything mostly stay the same, shitty garbage that I’m used to. Candidate B will make everything that I hate several times worse, as well as present new and novel problems we’ve never even known about before now, as well as inventing new non-issues to pad his own pockets with culture war profits. There is no candidate C. You know, I’m seriously considering voting for Candidate B.” is a brain damaged take, end of story.
Opinions like yours is what brought you BoJo and Brexit. Forgive me if I don’t want to entertain them across the pond.
A “veneer of civility” is all that’s needed to buy your vote? A ‘veneer of civility’ over a fucking genocide? Listen to yourself, you sound so proud of that shit. .
Fuck that. You KNOW the truth about Biden and about the US political establishment and the only reason you vote for Biden is because you are too much of a coward to look reality in the face. You grab on to this fucking ‘veneer’ like you are stix2your fingers in your ears and squeezing your eyes shut and shouting “Aaah I can’t hear you LLALALLALALALA”, and then you act all sanctimonious like you are better people than Trump supporters. You are not.
And no, people believing a bunch of hokum and lies was what bought on Brexit and BoJo. Not very different from the copium you are smoking.
We fought a war so we didn’t have to hear your shit takes.
Apparently you didn’t win hard enough, pookie.
I’ve never seen someone so blatantly tell on themselves as you have in this comment.
Yah fun things to talk about like “hey, isn’t it interesting how you have less medical rights now.” Jfc
Still better than Trump
If Biden dies and his tombstone is running for president, I’d still vote for his tombstone over trump.
This isn’t even a joke… Like, I keep hearing my conservative family members express that they can’t vote for “someone with dementia”. Glossing past Trump’s many, many, many senior moments, it comes down to the fact the president is supported by an entire cabinet.
If Biden gets poo brain, he’s going to rely on his cabinet. If Trump continues down his poo brain path, he will never rely on a cabinet (especially since it’s full of yes-men). He will just let the dimentia drive him, just like he did in his first term.
E.g. Airports in the 1700s, convincing everyone covid isn’t that bad prior to a vaccine, posting “white power” to his Twitter, tear gassing protesters for a Photo OP where he holds a Bible upside-down. I could go on, and on, and on…
But sure, let’s all pretend Biden’s old man brain is a real serious problem. Because sometimes he… ::checks notes:: falls on stairs, and fumbles words.
These clowns voted for fucking George W. Bush, by the way.
here
Biden guarantees you Trump. Figure it out bub.
Lol /iamverysmart
Smarter than a cohort of individuals insisting that we run a 20:1 underdog.
Sure
Hows that working out for you.
So good. How long I been living rent free bro, 3 weeks lol
People don’t seem to be coping well with realities of how this works lol
Both didn the gig… Did anything really change?
Still slaving for shiiter wagers, with shit infra and piss poor social services.
Rent is higher tho!
LOOOOOOOOOOOL
Trump would only win if the Democrat party found someone seemingly more inept than him.
I am impressed that the Democrat party managed to present not one, but two outstandingly incompetent candidates. In a row. That’s some bottom of the barrel advanced scraping techniques right there. They even managed to get a representation of both sexes.
I’m sure Mr. Biden will be terribly distraught, as soon as he is able to understand what’s happening around him at the moment.
The Democrats are still stuck in this post-Clinton seniority mindset where they unofficially pick a candidate before primaries even begin, based on who has been around the longest and who has held the highest position. Remember “it’s her turn”? Yes, yes, I know it didn’t work against Obama, but heading into the debates everyone assumed Hillary would be the candidate until Obama put on the better show. More to the point, I think Obama breaking through scared the establishment Dems into doubling down on primary fuckery. See what happened to Bernie, twice. So now we have a president who knows all the right people but plays politics with the 1990s rulebook and has a terminal case of crusty old man voice.
Still better than Trump.
Obama has absolutely absurd charisma. He’s the Democrat version of Trump - knows exactly what to say to his base and knows how to convince moderates he’s not insane.
Clinton and Biden have the charisma of a limp noodle. Sanders has absurd charisma, but he’s seen as too big of a threat to Democrat lobbyists and big corporations.
Sanders would’ve mopped the floor with Trump because he would’ve actually been able to grab the 18-44 demographic (which last saw peaks in 1992 Clinton/Gore and 2008 Obama/Biden, both to unseat a Republican and, coincidentally, a Bush).
Sanders would have been able to avoid the collapse in turnout from working-class Black people in 2016.
Sanders would’ve stopped the increasing right-wing radicalization of the youth of America, or provided a counterweight for left-wing economic radicalization.
The US federal elections are basically a pony show and the DNC doesn’t know how to play the game without throwing out their playbook.
This is about a succinct of a deconstruction of the DNCs hand in this cycle as I’ve seen. They’re effectively Ned Stark
He literally is an old man. Which is the core issue.
I do not understand how Elizabeth Warren didn’t get more interest 4 years ago. She was clearly the best candidate and one who has the kind of broad appeal Bernie Sanders does. I think I’m at a point where my belief is that the bankers who are probably gonna vote Republican anyway who fund campaigns very explicitly don’t want someone like Sanders or Warren to be president
The Democratic establishment doesn’t want people who go after their donors. Mainly big banks, but also pharmaceutical and insurance companies which if you ask me all need to be reformed and heavily regulated and a lot of people need to go to prison for what they’ve done to the country over the past 24 years. But hey, who am I, just somebody who wants better for the country that doesn’t have to do with sucking rich cocks.
Corpo’s lapdogs are on both sides but some how GOP ends appealing to the masses.
Some fucking warped reality.
It is easy to understand. The people who the Republican party appeals to are unlikely to vote Democratic, the Democratic Party by trying to appeal to them it is losing its base while not winning any Republican voters. The people who are likely to vote Democratic are more idealistic and will hold the Democratic Party to a high standard. The promised “push to the left” never came, and so the people are looking at two right wing candidates, the Republicans already got their guy in Trump and anyone even slightly left of center has no one to represent them.
One-fucking-hundred percent.
Warren was my choice over Bernie for strategic value even though I like Bernie more. If we didn’t have explicitly Republican propaganda outlets I think conservatives would have been more comfortable with her too as she was once a Republican and understands business law.
Hell she literally wrote the book on my, and others, biggest issue “the two income trap” where society has defined economic success by “family income” instead of individual incomes. People like myself suffer because we’re perpetually single so we only have one income. Family income says everything is rosy because it’s now 2 incomes. :(
You know it is pretty bad when a bunch of CNN commentators think he got smoked.
CNN got bought out by right wing media a little while ago iirc
Doesn’t mean they’re wrong.
Think? They know, we all know. The world knows. The proof is in the pudding. People have been saying it. Biden is NOT capable of existing independently (needs assistance just for directions), much less of being a president.
Welp, we’re fucked.
No. We’re “un-fucked”.
We cant win with Biden.
We CAN win without him.
Finally the dense mother fuckers who have been denying Biden’s inadequacy have been dragged, kicking and screaming, into reality.
We’ll have a brokered convention (like all conventions before 1970’s), we’ll get “generic corporate democrat”, and they’ll be instantly polling in the low to mid 50’s and we’ll actually have a fucking chance.
Biden has had no chance at winning this election at any point in his candidacy. Ever. Look at the polling. Look at the data. He’s never stood a chance and plenty of people here and elsewhere have been trying to get this through some extremely thick skulls that have basically been insisting that we need to run an un-electable candidate.
Well the goose is cooked. The rat is out of the bag. Here comes the moose or whatever. He’s done. Adios Biden, don’t let the door hit you on the way out. You did fine on some stuff but wow you fucked up on Gaza/Israel.
Minutes after that debate Newsom was on MSNBC. We’re gonna get Newsom, or maybe Inslee; a way smarter choice would be Witmer or Andy Beshear.
And guess what? Litterally ANY GENERIC CANDIDATE PUTS 10 POINTS BACK ON THE BOARD.
Bam. Switch candidates and Democrats are instantaneously back in this race.
Not only switch candidates, but have Biden have the humility to back that person. Do it in the name of Democracy, you know: this election is too important and I realize we need a stronger candidate than I can be. That would sell well, and that’s what’s needed for better or worse: a good narrative
Yeah, it takes a lot of chutzpah to say, “Look, I tried, but I can’t do it. This guy can do it, and I’m giving him my full support, you should too”.
I think just about anyone who has the confidence to run for President is narcissistic enough to think they are the only person who can do the job, so Biden, or Trump, stepping down willingly is not going to happen.
Oh, nothing about our culture would permit someone to do that. I don’t expect him to. It’s just a nice fantasy
This probably doesn’t work, and it’s probably not as good idea as anyone hopes (genuinely or not). It might happen anyway, but no matter what, we’re coasting toward a second Trump presidency, just like all the Russian agitprops here wanted all along.
If Biden is polling down 10 points or worse at the convention, they could drag someone else onto the stage, but my suspicion is that no one else outperforms him on short notice, even after his abysmal performance in the debate.
A few reasons:
- Newsom probably doesn’t want it. If he calculates Trump wins either way (not unreasonable), he’s not going to want that loss on his record since he’s already gunning for 28. He would be the best chance at getting an up-and-comer who already has good name recognition and looks and sounds good.
- Harris. If Harris wants it, she has a lot of leverage to make it hard or outright impossible for the party to push anyone else out in front of her. She’s a poor candidate for a lot of reasons, but she’s also the most attached to Biden. That’s both good and bad for her. If they want to run anyone else, they have to have her playing ball too. Ask yourself, if you were Kamala Harris, would you give up your only conceivable chance at the Oval in favor of another non-Biden candidate? Remember, in any scenario the odds are good Trump wins anyway.
- The truth may be that the party would rather just let Trump win. That sounds unthinkable, but this isn’t a secret cabal of idealists we’re talking about: it’s a bunch of self-interested rich people who want to put themselves in power. Getting them to do anything for the public good is difficult under the best circumstances. They could easily decide–rightly–that Biden is still their best shot at beating Trump. That was the call in 2020, and it paid off. Don’t forget that many of these same names being batted around now were active in the party four years ago. Newsom loses to Trump, and he’s largely seen as the best alternative. If you’re running the party and looking at those odds, you should run Biden if you actually want the best chance at winning. You might decide it’s just a lost cause and start planning for a four year long nightmare.
Newsom probably doesn’t want it. If he calculates Trump wins either way (not unreasonable), he’s not going to want that loss on his record since he’s already gunning for 28. He would be the best chance at getting an up-and-comer who already has good name recognition and looks and sounds good.
Bro Newsom was on MSNBC 15 seconds after the debate ended. Newsom is 100% gunning for the job.
Harris. If Harris wants it, she has a lot of leverage to make it hard or outright impossible for the party to push anyone else out in front of her. She’s a poor candidate for a lot of reasons, but she’s also the most attached to Biden. That’s both good and bad for her. If they want to run anyone else, they have to have her playing ball too. Ask yourself, if you were Kamala Harris, would you give up your only conceivable chance at the Oval in favor of another non-Biden candidate? Remember, in any scenario the odds are good Trump wins anyway.
This is a real issue that I think you are right to bring up. Harris can basically put the brakes on/ gatekeep whomever the nominee is going to be.
If you’re running the party and looking at those odds, you should run Biden if you actually want the best chance at winning.
Yeah you are just wildly off base here. Biden was at between a 5-20% chance of winning the election prior to this debate (not polling, but probability). He’ll be in the 3-10% range after this. Did you watch the post debate coverage? CNN’s only topic of conversation was that we need to replace Biden. This is CNN! They are the party insiders. He’s cooked.
Newsom was on MSNBC singing Joe’s praises, just like he would have done regardless, because Newsom wants to be president, but Newsom also polls worse than Biden. That’s not hypothetical. Those polls already exist, and a drop in Biden’s numbers isn’t automatically a boost for Newsom. If Newsom thinks losing in 24 hurts his viability in 28, he wouldn’t do it. And who could blame him? It’s five months to the election.
The point is: It’s possible that all of the options are bad. Biden was in the mid-forties before the debate and the thirties after. He went from near toss-up to probably losing if the election were yesterday/today. Newsom might out-poll Biden today, but that’s not the contest.
The contest is with Trump. It’s not good enough to poll better than Biden. You have to actually carry all of Biden’s states and then some. If I’m Newsom and deciding whether to try to cobble together a five-month campaign and limp to November to save the DNC from itself and protect Amtrak Joe’s legacy when I’m starting 15 points in the hole or run my own campaign against the likes of a Haley or DeSantis also-ran once Trump is term-barred, dead, or both in four years, I’m not taking a risk at the convention unless someone makes me very, very confident that I could win.
And there’s the rub. Newsom wants to be president, and he’d love to be president in six months, but he’s not going to take over a campaign that’s already lost. If the party thinks Trump wins no matter what–not an unreasonable conclusion–why on earth would they burn their best shot of a rebound in 28?
Biden was in the mid-forties before the debate
Bro Biden was in the mid thirties before the debate.
Uh… okay, bro. You know that Donald Trump is also running in this election, right? Biden could be running single digits, and it still wouldn’t change the calculus: If a Biden alternative can’t beat Trump, they’re not going to put an albatross around the neck of their political career just to lose in November.
You’ve got the entire thing backwards: Biden is the albatross.
ANY other democrat polls better than Biden. Biden is the worst possible democrat to be running. Period. Except maybe Hillary, and even then, she’d be doing better than Biden right now.
You swap out Biden with literally any hollow blue suit, and you are suddenly 10 points up in the polls.
Just bumping this to remind you how entirely and completely wrong you were.
Good luck with Project 2025, because that’s what third party voters are voting for.
We need to get rid of FPTP voting before a 2 party system can be derailed.
Are you like, actually touched?
We’re talking about the Democratic nominee right now. Not any third party candidate.
Biden is the Democratic nominee. Sure it’s not official until August 19-22 but unless he resigns, dies, or is otherwise fully incapacitated before then, he is the candidate who will be on the ballots in November. None of those possibilities seem likely.
We haven’t had a convention. We don’t until August.
Biden is not the nominee. You should try and learn how things actually work.
Maybe look at history from time immemorial. Biden is the nominee. As unfortunate as that may be, that’s our reality.
Whats your bet? Lay down some money.
Are you? Because people are still thinking about voting third party. Despite the fact that the system in place will not allow a third party candidate to prevail. And voting third party takes away from the Democratic party vote every time.
You are just clueless.
Sure thing, Bud.
🫵 🤡
Without ranked choice voting a third party vote is throwing away a vote.
Correct. And almost always a vote that would go to a Democrat candidate.
LOL. A lot of flowery language there but not much substance. The Dems can’t switch now. Trump can instantly snatch on to that and attack whoever replaces Biden as an inferior desperate backup. Trump will say you Democrats have no idea what they’re doing and they can’t even stand behind their incumbent. This isn’t only about 2024 but also about the midterms. Who would vote for a party that backstabs their incumbent?
Yeah your just wrong.
You obviously don’t know the rules for the DNC or how primary’s work, or have any kind of meaningful political acumen. You are your archetypes have been spouting this plainly wrong “political wisdom” both here and across cable news for months, years even. And reality has now bucked your claims.
Bidens not the nominee. He lost that last night. And it’s a good thing. He’s losing dramatically to Trump right now.
Such confidence in statements that will be proven wrong in a matter of days. LOL. You’ll forget these comments by then though.
I mean I’m taking bets.
I’ll take 20:1 if you feel so generous as to give me those odds.
I’ll lay down $20: Biden isn’t the nominee; and a second $20: Biden is does not win the Presidential election.
If I’m wrong on the nominee, you get $20. If I’m wrong on them winning the presidency, another $20.
If I’m right on the nominee, you pay me $400. If I’m right on them not winning the Presidency (for any reason), that’s another $400 you owe me.
Bet? Or coward that doesn’t really believe what they believe when they are held accountable?
If you don’t like those odds, feel free to offer odds you prefer and I’ll consider them.
How would we enforce the bet?
Why 20:1 and not 1:1?
Or even 1:20 if you’re so confident?
Believe in yourself. Take the 1:20 bet.
That’ll show me.
20:1 specifically?
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
That’s just the odds of Biden (or Trump for that matter) keeling over for literally any reason whatsoever based on the social security actuarial table. So if I can get 20:1, I should be break even betting against any octogenarian.
There is a little bit better than a 1 in 15 chance, that for any 81 year old, they’ll die that year. So I hedged it to 1:20 as insurance, because I figured I’m really only betting on the first 9 months of the year. If I can get 1:20, that’s break even odds (actually slightly in my favor). Also, figure the presidency, campaigning; that shit aint a walk in the park. Probably more likely still to die in office than a standard octogenarian.
I’ll give you 10:1 if you bet at least 50 bucks. I lose, you make $50; I win, I make $500. Hows that sound?
Edit: As to how to enforce it, we can make a community and pin it there. ITs similar to what we used to do in a bar I frequented where we would bet pints (very similarly) on whatever was happening. There was a cork-board and bets would get pinned to it. And I trust you.
I’ll eat my hat and comment here if Biden doesn’t gets his nomination. I didn’t say Biden is the nominee. I didn’t even use the word “nominee”. Its you who keeps attacking the straw man. But you know what? I’m 100% sure the DNC will nominate Biden. That debate performance was bad but he ain’t losing his presumptive nomination. Don’t confuse reality with what you want to happen.
Show me a picture of the hat.
@[email protected] 55 days
Show me what hat you will eat.
Biden had beaten him before. And many people will vote for a shit stain against trump.
In 2020 he still wasn’t Genocide Joe though.
He’s not winning. Pull your head out of your ass. He’s losing by every metric.
Did I say he was winning? Where? Show me!
@[email protected] 5 months
@Lifecoach5000 Ok, I will remind you on Wednesday Nov 27, 2024 at 9:42 PM PST.
The DNC convention is in August, not November.
Welp that doesn’t quite matter now does it? Lol
Well I had the call right. We swapped out the candidate and we instantly got ten points back in the board. More even at the midpoint of the convention.
Had it been Biden EC would have gone 400 to Trump. At least that’s what his internal polling at the time of this comment had him at.
Does this actually work?
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Gretchen Whitmer to the rescue? 🤞
Did the feds returned her back after that that fiasco?
Your party (Democrat) is peppered with bad elements for the U.S. (Marxist, Socialist, Communist etc…). You mentioned a staunch communist, Newsom. Look at the disaster he made California into. The droves of companies and citizens leaving or have left California. The silly penalty he plans to implement for Californian residents who leave the state (he’s wants to tax all Californians for a set of years if they leave California). The number of businesses that closed, not just from the stupid minimum wage hike but also from the amount of crime in and around the businesses.
The fact that you mentioned Witmer makes me cringe… a neoliberal socialist.
Andy Beshear is the only Dem (to my knowledge) that appears to be moderate. But I have very limited knowledge of his views/goals/accomplishments. He doesn’t come off as a neoliberal or crazy leftisms… yet. He has a bias for Israel which more than likely means he’s corrupted by AIPAC.
Don’t get me wrong, the Republicans are also chitty. Thomas Massie and Rand Paul are two representatives with integrity. The others in the spotlight are chit tier.
Your Overton Window has fell off the side of the building and broken on the pavement.
You don’t even know my political views. Here’s a tidbit, tho; I dislike democracy/mob rule. It is easily corruptible/manipulatable.
You don’t even know my political views
The fact you’re so low IQ you think clarifying you’re pro-authoritarian is even necessary… Straight perfection! You embody the weak, scared, conservative simp who yearns to be ruled by a king to feel safe and secure.
lol…
So what, you want a king?
No. I think starting with an investigation of corruption of all politicians from local to state to federal, including government agencies should be the first step, however.
staunch communist, Newsom.
Lol.
As a California resident, WTF are you talking about?
lol… you got duped into giving away your money to a rail system that failed miserably.
California’s HSR is perhaps the greatest infrastructure failure in the history of the country. And the reason it failed is because of a gross failure of state governance, one on such a grand scale that it is nothing short of a betrayal of Californians. The betrayal dates back to the project’s inception.
dead.jpg
Curious, you ever look into the various groups that lobby to kill high speed rail before it happened? Like, I dunno, maybe the Koch’s and Musk, who have interests in other industries, hamstringing and delaying any possibility of high speed rail.
Note, it ain’t just California in the US who doesn’t have it, it’s all of America.
From what I remember, they also kept increasing the budget for the rail system.
Funny how that happens when people with too much money keep fighting you.
I love “California disaster” arguments. I have some MAGA relatives that currently live in California, they decided to move and in 2022 in summer visited non-“marxist” states. And you know what? They ended up staying.
I live in California for 25 years now and I love my state. The most opinionated about how shitty California is are people who never been here.
Brah… I can leave my A/C on 68F all day and night and not be pressured to raise it to lol… what was it again? 78F? It’s been a couple years since I’ve left California, I believe 78F is the recommendation during the hotter months. We don’t have to worry about rolling blackouts. We don’t have to pay for grocery bags. Our gas prices currently is a dollar less than Southern California, almost two dollars cheaper than gas in the Bay Area. Beautiful state, no doubt. Chitty politicians, however.
So do I. Also the only time I had an outage in 25 years was due to equipment failure and, there also was a planned maintenance. It never took longer than a couple hours.
Grocery bags cost like what? 50 cents? It encourages having reusable bags which are more practical anyway and don’t break as often.
As for gas, this is a problem with location. On one side we have ocean on the other we have mountains. This causes pollution to be trapped.
This is why Los Angeles was infamous for its smog in 70s and 80s. Catalysts and specifically refined oil helped being it back to healthy levels.
Also I don’t get the obsession with the gas. If you look at prices the gas prices were static for nearly 15 years. It is ridiculous that this is still an argument to anything.
How to throw an unlosable election
It was never unlosable. People have forgotten how bad Trump was and blame everything on Biden. It’s been an uphill battle.
Although I still think he should have stepped aside for someone with less baggage.
All Biden had to do was be unmemorable and he was guaranteed a second term. His ambitious foreign policy decisions (to put it lightly) and his lack of ability to pass meaningful change despite holding both chambers of Congress in his first 2 years doomed him.
He didn’t hold both chambers. The two “democrats” who supposedly won in Senate even changed their party affiliation after winning.
Always 50/50 because two party system, FPTP and electoral college.
People didn’t forget. They never cared. Biden didn’t win by 5 million votes (and that’s not actually a significant percentage), he won by 50k votes in a few counties that flipped their states.
1st. He didn’t win by 5 million, he won by 7 million. 2nd what you’re talking about wasn’t result of popularity, but how our election system is messed up, where some votes matter more than others. trump not even once won a popular vote. Even against Hilary he lost by nearly 3 million.
Brah… Biden and Co have begun to blame Trump for the border crisis and the U.S. victims of illegal immigrants (rape, theft, murder, assaults etc…). Literally Biden is the man who created the border crisis and now the rampant crimes across the nation committed by illegal immigrants.
rampant crimes across the nation committed by illegal immigrants
The research does not support the view that immigrants commit crime or are incarcerated at higher rates than native-born Americans.
…
What’s more, the arrival of record numbers of immigrants at the United States–Mexico border over the past two years has not corresponded with an overall increase in crime in so-called “blue” cities where many of the recent arrivals have settled. In most places, the opposite has happened — crime, including violent crime, has trended downward (other than larceny and a small increase in robbery) after peaking across the country in 2020. This has been true since the spring of 2022, the year Republican governors, including those in Arizona, Florida, and Texas, began transporting undocumented immigrants to cities with more immigrant-friendly policies, including Boston, Chicago, New York, and Washington.NY has been riddled with crimes committed by illegal immigrants in the recent days, weeks, and months.
Remember the NYPD who were jumped by a gang of illegal immigrants?
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/feb/19/illegal-immigrants-bring-gang-ties-and-violent-cri/
Rape of a 13 year old in NY?
https://abc7chicago.com/post/queens-sexual-assault-new-york-rape-suspect-charged/14972006/
Rape of a 15 year old in NY?
Over 2000 convicted criminals - illegals captured by ICE
I’d keep going… but I see how you roll.
Remember the NYPD who were jumped by a gang of illegal immigrants?
No, but I do remember the NYPD harassing a small group of migrants that were just minding their own business on a public sidewalk (without blocking it), ordering them to leave, and then assaulting one of them while he was attempting to comply.
If said migrants came onto U.S. soil illegally, who gives a fk what they have to say or what they’re doing, back to their country they go.
3 examples isn’t a great way to show nationwide trends.
Over 2000 convicted criminals - illegals captured by ICE
This is from 2015.
In New York, a sanctuary city that has received the most immigrants from Republican-run border states, crime decreased in most major categories in 2023 compared to the year before, as confirmed by a January report from the New York City Police Department. This follows reductions in most crime categories in the city in 2022. New York City remains one of the safest big cities in the country despite sensational claims that it is being overwhelmed by crime.
From the same article linked above, since you seem so obsessed with New York City.
The date… that doesn’t invalidate the claim that actual criminals from other nations come into this nation illegally and commit crimes here. That’s additional crimes that could be deterred if we… closed the border tightly. The point I was making with NY, is as of recent, like I mentioned before there’s crimes committed by illegals. Had those illegal not entered our nation and into NY, cops wouldn’t have been jumped, a 13 year old and a 15 year old wouldn’t have been victimized. That’s just NY… and 5 minutes of searching things off the top of my head from what has happened in the last month or two til today.
I’ll do you one better… Cartel in Arizona.
If 1% of your city are criminals, you let in 200 people, and one of them is a criminal, has the crime rate gone up?
Those damned immigrants.
Edit: Ah, shit, it’s you again…
NY has been riddled with crimes committed by illegal immigrants in the recent days, weeks, and months.
One last thing, now that I’m back at my computer:
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Continued declines across most major crime categories prevailed during January 2024, compared to the first month of last year, and included substantial drops in murder, rape, burglary, and felony assault.
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Incidents of shootings, murder, and other bellwether crimes in New York City were markedly reduced again in February compared to the same month last year, while major offenses committed in the city’s subway system dropped more than 15 percent. Throughout the five boroughs, overall crime continued its downward trajectory, dipping another 1.1%.
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New York City saw continued reductions in overall crime through the first quarter of 2024, both above ground, on streets throughout the five boroughs, and below ground, within the nation’s largest subway system. The single month of March 2024, compared to the same month last year, experienced even more drastic crime declines.
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Overall index crime across New York City dropped another 4.9 percent in the month of April compared to the same month last year, as major crimes in the nation’s largest subway system plummeted another 23 percent, continuing a downward trend that saw previous transit system decreases
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Overall index crime across New York City dropped another 2.4 percent in May 2024, compared to the same month last year, with the major crime categories of murder, burglary, grand larceny, and grand larceny—auto each seeing dramatic reductions.
The point I was making with NY, is as of recent, like I mentioned before there’s crimes committed by illegals.
So what? There are statistically a lot more crimes being committed by US citizens. Should we start deporting/exiling our own citizens? Should we keep increasing our prison population? Or should we not hold our own citizens to the same kind of standards that you want to apply to everyone else in the world?
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2016 Part 2: Election Boogaloo
As bad as Biden was, CNN were worse. Fuck that shitty network for allowing Trump to lie pretty much nonstop for 90 minutes unchallenged.
they gave both people plenty of time, biden is supposed to be capable of challenging on his own
I disagree. Trump indulged in a gish gallop of lies and bullshit. Biden spent too much time trying to refute some of it and in doing so wasted time which he could’ve used to make his own points.
There should’ve been moderation in place to stop this, there was none.
which he could’ve used to make his own points.
Well I mean he did let everyone know we finally beat Medicare.
Certainly the “moderator” isn’t expected to moderate the thing! /s
It wouldn’t do Biden any favors to be the third most charismatic person on the debate stage.
It takes longer to debunk a lie than to say one. It’s easy to spout out a hundred lies in two minutes, but it takes longer than that to debunk them without just saying “No, that’s a lie” to every one, which also sounds dumb if Trump is saying that, too.
And if Biden wasn’t senile he would have been able to do that.
Not necessarily.
Perhaps 20 years ago Biden WorldCom acquitted himself better.
That said Trumps performance is a well established debate strategy called a gish gallop - just say dozens of lies and your opponent won’t be able to rebut them all. If they try, they won’t have time for their own points.
Hey if you’re trying to tell me Biden is a shit candidate you’ll get no argument from me. I remain furious at anyone who voted for him in the 2020 primaries.
This post truth thing is a real problem because the average person does not bother checking facts. What they notice is some division, controversy etc. not that one person is lying. Also any moron can see that Biden is old.
Someone with simple answers wins these debates. Notice how Biden says the right things all the time but he won’t reach people like this.
Notice how Biden says the right things all the time
Are you talking about during the debate? “We finally beat Medicare!” ain’t that.
And if you think Biden said the right things about the rail strike or protests around the weapon shipments to Israel you’re living in some kind of grand delusion that excludes millions of people you’re depending on to get Biden re-elected.
Actually, the other way around. We keep on compartmentalizing, Trump can lie all he wants and nothing happens, but Joe stutters and it’s a national disgrace… How can you compare one without including the only alternative?
Republicans accept a post-truth society where everything is someone’s propaganda, that the federal government is out to get them and that the union would be better served as a union of state-level republics. Democrats still believe in the existence of a ground truth and want a union with centralized control (i.e., they are Federalists). Like the Federalists, the Democrats are backed by wealthy financial states (New York, California) as opposed to more rural/working-class states (Alabama, Ohio) and support heavy industrial subsidies (Biden’s IRA, CHIPS) as well as weak state governments.
This is a fundamental difference that explains a lot, actually. The role of government has always been to convince populations to pursue the policy goals of the elite. The foundations of representative democracy involve choosing which elites’ policy goals to follow. The Republicans want to follow state elites (to borrow a Chinese proverb, the mountains are high and the President is far away). The Democrats want to follow federal elites.
Here’s the real problem. The US gets to choose between a career politician and a career businessman (swindler, by definition). Who represents the working class? Who represents the people who actually built America’s economy?
Nobody represents the people, but that’s not a new problem nor, in anyway, a new thing in this Trump era
My biggest fear is that the USA always gets to chose someone who does not represent them at all but at least had the notion that we need a planet to live in
Trump is a man child and will see the world burn out of petty spite. And us, in the rest of the world, would have to still live with those consequences
So back to the debate and the choice between Biden and Trump… Sure Biden is a terrible option, like chosing to get cancer… But Trump is like chosing to be gang raped, shot and left for dead in an open sewer and here we are pretending the 2 bad options are somehow the same
Every American election for /years/ was coke v Pepsi. Not sure when it became coke v battery acid, nor why so many people are like “well I don’t like cola so maybe it will be okay to drink battery acid” and why it is that the Democrats still want to run coke when America has made it abundantly clear we’d like to be offered the chance to drink SOME CLEAN FUCKING WATER JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
Exactly right
My biggest fear is that the USA always gets to chose someone who does not represent them at all but at least had the notion that we need a planet to live in
That’s the part you’re missing. People are legitimately asking themselves “If these two people are my only choices and won’t improve my quality of life do I want to keep living?”
But again, maybe Biden is the status quo which is not great I admit, but Trump is torture then death… How is that even a “close” call to make?
Again you are not fully empathizing with people’s experience under… whoever for the last 20ish years. Some “young” people who are now in their 30s and 40s never really recovered from the financial crisis. Each day is already torture working a dead end job with shit pay where customers scream at them only to return to a tiny apartment with rent creeping up every single month.
It’s not a matter of empathy… If each day is torture under status quo, how is going under a regime promising to make it worse a better option?
You’re trying to trump despair with reason bud. Doesn’t work like that.
The fact that the democrats have selected such a terrible candidate that Trump has a running chance for the third time in a row and that the US as a whole has selected two awful candidates for possibly the most important job in the world, that is a disgrace, and it is shameful.
Trump would have a running chance regardless of who the democrats pick would be, the electoral college and republican party have made sure of that.
Why is Trump the only alternative? There have to be 1000 better democrats than Biden.
When Jon Stewart referred to Biden’s expression as resting 25th amendment face. 💀
alarm bells?
wait they didn’t know he was old before this debate?
Apparently millions of people during the 2020 primaries didn’t math long enough to realize Biden would be 86 years old after two terms.
I distinctly remember that before I left Reddit, I had some lovely discourse with someone who was absolutely inconsolable over my opinion that Biden was too old for the job. Got called ageist and everything else they could think of.
Trust me, I hate being right.
I had a grandmother who died at 88 but was still sharp until that day she passed. It’s clear Biden needs to retire, he’s cognitively unable to act as a president, the media and Democratic establishment need to stop gas lightning us.
We told you back in November but no one listened.
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You don’t really have a choice. Biden basically just joke show to support Trump being elected and don’t get me started on that nightmare. There’s really only two responses to this but it ain’t electing and I ain’t gonna say it here.
I’m off to start my fire for this dark fucking night.
authoritarian fascist
Please just say fascist, authoritarian has horseshoe theory vibes which we don’t allow on this com.
I’m European so obviously anti trump (I’ve learnt a lot about politicians that used similar rhetoric, had a different personal cult around them, also tried overthrowing the state - history repeats when not learning from it) but damn, Biden was bad. I’d still vote for Biden simply to avoid trump, but I fear he has no chance to get >50% after that performance.
The democrats hopefully see the writing on the wall and replace him before it’s too late.
It’s over. It was honestly over long ago, it’s just playing out in slow motion.
It will probably continue to play out for another thirty years at least. Increasingly horrible, so at any point “eight years ago” feels like back when things were sane, except we lost our minds decades ago already.
Sorry we’re the nation equivalent of DJ Khaled; we think we’re “suffering from success” but in truth we actually are and we don’t know it.
There’s no way Biden can win. According to polls, he’s losing all the swing states, and that was before this debate took place. The DNC is going to give us Trump because they are elitist and don’t actually care about democracy.
Problem for dems is that it’s way too late to replace him now. They had to accept reality last year and run a real primary. Instead they waited until the last moment, and now there’s not enough time for somebody new without an existing voter base to start campaigning.
Thankfully, he doesn’t actually need to win the majority vote (look up the electoral college if you’re curious/horrified), unfortunately that fact mostly benefits Trump.
It may already be too late to replace him. It would definitely be risky. And it’s not gonna happen unless Biden himself says so. If he runs against whoever the DNC were to pick to run against him or would guarantee a Trump win.
What’s riskier: Replacing him, or keeping him?
Honestly I have no idea
I’m more worried that he won’t win the election rather than he will win it. I don’t think the debate changes anything about that, people are likely still going to vote who they were going to vote for. He is the not Trump vote, and it’s just as important as ever if not more important to vote not Trump.
