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I live in Australia
The homicide rate here is 0.86 deaths per 100k people per year
Of those, approx 66% are male.
The suicide rate is 12.3 deaths per 100k per year.
Of those, 75% are male.
The statistics are similar in most Western countries.
Pause for a second and think about the last time that you heard that mentioned either in casual conversation or in the news media.
It is not spoken about.
One third of family violence victims are male as well. The government’s policy is that we don’t exist.
Doesn’t that mean that 2/3rds of domestic violence victims are women…
I think so, yes, but that’s beyond the point. I don’t think anyone here is claiming or even implying that “Women don’t suffer from issues”, cause well, they do. The point they’re making is that it’s not talked about for men, or at the very least, not nearly as much as it should be.
Yes women do suffer, and that should be treated respectfully and have empathy for, we just think it should be the same for men as well, cause they do suffer from a ton of mental health issues as well.
I’m not disputing any of that, it was just a strange statistic to use for illustrating men’s mental health. There are better statistics in this post already where men are majority sufferers/victims, instead of a decisive minority.
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Rest assured, the visibility of that statistic is very much in the minority. Feel free to look up the funding ratios for domestic violence against women and domestic violence against men. One third of the support won’t even come close.
It’s not a contest. Those minority of men are still people who need support.
It does. The point is that 1/3 of the victims have nowhere to turn. Almost all the help is directed at women, with active hostility to male “victims”. This leaves abused men nowhere to turn.
It’s also worth noting that many places have extremely gender biased rules/laws when it comes to domestic violence. The default is often to just arrest the male. This both creates a bias in the data, as well as allowing some women to weaponise domestic violence laws.
Men are also far less likely to be believed, and so report less.
It may well be men are more violent, once these are accounted for, but the bias is far less than the raw statistics make out.
Yeah, also like 97% of murders are done by men, BUT more to the point, if men had good mental health care and had a culture that gave them better mental health outcomes, this would mean a lot of murder would never happen. People think ‘toxic masculinity’ means ‘men are bad’ but that’s not it, it’s that I grew up in a culture where a man saying he mistakenly thought he might actually be gay at one point because a bunch of kids in middle school ganged up on him repeatedly and attacked him for ‘‘being gay’’, was responded to by the other guys walking out of the room and calling him gay. Or when me and one other roommate resolved an argument by discussing our shared religious beliefs concerning Jesus’s words to love one another, the other roommates with the same religion called us fags. These were adult men. Point being, our culture is toxic TO MEN. It’s not doing much besides creating a lot of men who can’t talk about their feelings, and have to be constantly on guard about being attacked for being ‘gay’ by admitting they have feelings or affection. There’s a lot of guys married to someone that will mock them for getting too emotional or bringing up their feelings. It’s often clearly communicated that those aspects of a man are not appreciated, nor welcomed. A lot of guys would much rather feel welcomed and appreciated for being fully human.
In my area, cis het women are largely dividable into groups that understand this and wish cis het men would (it maybe admit it if they secretly understand), and cis het women who understand this and grow hostile when other women point it out, endangering the largest vector of exploitation. And I get it, since most of the cis het men do it to women, when they can (red state). But an eye for an eye is really not making anything better for anyone, it’s just who can con who first and worst, for the longest time frame. It’s kind of like narc-ing the narc turns you into the narc. I wish everyone would just go work on personal healing and growth and encourage others it’s ok and desirable to do this, rather than making a competition of who can be the sickest. But that wouldn’t be profitable to the overlords, who stigmatize it, make it inaccessible, and exploit our illnesses, mental and physical.
Yeah I agree, and it’s frustrating people do this to eachother, solidarity is so deeply necessary and so difficult to convince people about.
Yes it is. Men and women can support each other holistically and as a whole. We just have to realize there are opportunists among us, and they are also unwell, more unwell than us. I’m not sure how to handle persistent, demonstrable undermining, but I’d gather after a couple or few instances, sadly, somehow segregating them if and until they seek serious professional therapy from experienced therapists trained in personality disorders with a proven track record of the behavior being curtailed over long periods of time. But I am not a therapist.
It does, but at least where I live, there are systems in place to help female victims of domestic violence. Of course it would be better if there was no violence at all, and more could always be done to help them, but I haven’t really heard of a place where men could go if they’re victims of domestic violence.
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There was an article in my country in the news recently about men needing help too. The comments were ghastly. That women need it more and it was because of men, etc. Only one person in those comments stood up and addressed that actually men do need help too and that part of the problem could be to help men to cope and offering support because they don’t have as many options as other groups.
I see an article about it, every now and then. But it’s definitely not something that’s being addressed with a sense of urgency. I guess the attitude that men just need to endure in silence, which I grew up with, is still pervasive. Close relationships with men, where you can talk about emotions, were discouraged, because that’s gay and gay is bad. I know how idiotic and toxic that is, but I also notice how deeply ingrained this is for me. When I see men show emotions, I instinctively think of them as weak. Then I have to make a conscious effort to think how dumb that is. As I think I’m not the only one who was taught this fucked up shit, the only way forward seems to be a generational effort. Each generation tries to bring up their children a little less fucked up until we end up with a somewhat sane attitude two or three generations from now.
You have mountains of work to do if you want societies to realize that men suffer mentally too…
Can’t I just have a molehill of work. I’ve already got a lot on my plate with no outlet.
Yes you can, any help is appreciated and welcomed 🫶
🫂
I’m rather convinced that society knows - it just does not care.
Perhaps… but I don’t wanna lose hope in humanity, so I’ll blame ignorance
It doesn’t matter if a lot of people care about something if they don’t fight for these things to happen “society” ie the beaurcratic powers that be in different institutions will not automatically feature your issue. Inertia is more efficient for them. The reason so many minority initiatives have worked is because small but dedicated groups worked extraordinarily hard to pressure “society” to change. It’s Pride month, look at that situation. The LGBTQIA is a small fraction of society, smaller back at it’s Pride origins by far because a lot of people were scared out of their minds to come forward.
I understand that the instinct is to mope, to treat these problems as too big to change but that isn’t healthy. What people need to remember is that just wishing or creating reasons not to try doesn’t make things so. It is an unfortunate issue with straight cis men that they are not primed to organized guerilla social action. In part I think it is because there’s this toxic internal expectation that someone else should be doing that work for you on your behalf. There isn’t. If men want this to happen the movement has to start with men. Other people will join you and help you but they aren’t going to do the basic work for you. That whole “elevate ( ____ ) voices” thing? Men could fill that space but that’s the thing you have to put the work in to create the movement that treats your word as the authentic voice of the concern. Your voice needs to start that snowball effect and you need to make and start executing the plan.
Venting isn’t all that useful on it’s own mental health wise. Get it out of your system but add a second step. Ask yourself what you are going to do about it. Then find people in your area and organize. Be a leader of the movement or support one.
I am afraid that a lot depends on cultural context of the whole society. I don’t think the context is fertile for men’s activism for rights. The groups that exist are almost exclusively misogynist and conservative. I believe that a movement, even if really focused on men’s issues from a general perspective (I.e. not misogynistic) would be received very poorly, will fail to develop solidarity with other groups and would be accused of stealing space to them.
Frankly, I am not convinced at all that each demographic should fight their own battles, I believe in better analyzed demands that will merge under the same front gay rights, women’s rights, men’s rights and so on.
I mean I exist in a very LGBTQIA+ city. My friends across the spectrum of the rainbow have expressed sentiments about how men’s mental health is an issue but it is really hard to interface with it because men like to talk about it… but they seem to want to nope out of and defer spearheading an initiative. Because it’s not easy. It never is easy.
Most of the LGBTQIA have a model. A group who is directly plans a thing and then the people who are adjacent show up. People generally have the spoons to make one to two issues their main. This is usually where they take the effort to spearhead the thing, be part of the committee, figure out the logistics and run the getting the word out. That issue because it is so energy intensive usually is one they feel most directly affected or endangered by… but they can make time and energy to show up for like 10 other things to do fundraising, protests or whatever because they support friends. Stuff where they just need to know where to be and what to do. That’s comparitive low energy.
You could look to the LGBTQIA as help and go to like a Pride committee but generally speaking when approaching people for help you have to expect imperfection.
I see both sides. It takes enough men and women admitting there’s an experience that can be improved, and both have vested interests in not improving it. Sadly, behavioral issues are shamed, rather than understood. I’ve known people who were sent to jails, prisons, psych wards, and the family distanced and blamed. Even those who self-harm, even self-unalive are treated with embarrassment, anger, guilt and shame.
Sure, but it’s well worth doing, and can be done by many.
After all, one aspect of all this is realizing you don’t have to do everything yourself!
Yes, we all need to part of the change, if my bro wants to cry, I’ll hug him and tell him to cry as much as he can 🩵🤍, I was told as a kid that I shouldn’t cry because I’m a man, I’m a big boy… F that. I wanna cry so much now… I just can’t… something is not right
I was told that as a girl, so… People exploit feelings, and I get it. We need to work towards healing for those who exploit feelings, too
Yes. I’m one of the women other women resent-and usually the men who are suffering, too - because I do point it out. I’d love it if we can all come together and work towards healing our community. Or another one. You can’t force people to heal.
One thing I think should definitely be put out there more loudly is that Alexithymia(emotional blindness) is likely very common among dudes. I’m mostly going off personal experience, and how I’ve had issues identifying my emotions, and how I’ve heard some dudes I’ve talked to straight up just say they think they don’t feel things. I suspect potentially most dudes don’t understand how to detect emotions outside of very intense sadness, anger, etc. and I think that they need that communicated and a path they can maybe follow.
100% agreed. Bottling things up creates exploiters of those who would show emotions.
I hope you realise that now you’re fighting the patriarchy. They want us to believe that men have their shit together and women are all runny eye-makeup and hysteria. It’s a big fight to pick.
My highschool has a club that is basically just group therapy for guys only. As a regular attendee, it kicks ass.
OMG it’s so good to hear that this is changing. Twenty years ago, in college, I responded to flyers around campus about a support group forming. The therapist refused because obviously the support group was only for women. No mention on the flyers. She was surprised I tried to sign up and said I’d make everyone uncomfortable.
I know we have a ways to go but I’m glad there’s even a thought that maaaaaybe men need and can benefit from support, too?
I think the recent lack of male only spaces causes a huge amount of problem for men.
Its about stopping issued not fixing them once they are a problem.
All the male spaces I have been in have had guys opening up and getting support.
But when women are around they just seem to judge men for opening up, or belittle their issues as a joke/ insignificant to women’s, or sometimes they shut it down and blame to patriarchy for not allowing men to open up when they are the ones stopping men from opening up.
To everyone who believes men’s feeling don’t matter the only thing I can say is if my feelings don’t matter then why should yours
Agreed
I read that as “love and cake” – but yes, that too.
I read it as “men weed” which is nice
Finally someone says a dam thing about our mental health
Men’s mental health is certainly important, I would change one thing about this image: ‘Men feel things’ should be changed to ‘Men feel emotions’. Beyond that, I have no disagreements with this post!
We get all three emotions, apparently.
ROFL I suppose so, my emotional toolbox is bereft of so many feelings.
It’s not that I don’t feel emotions necessarily I just don’t know what to do with them. I was raised in a rural setting and so “be a man don’t cry” etc was much of my up bringing. I feel emotions I just don’t know where to put them other than shoving them down to be cut out with the cancer later or to blow up at the most inconvenient time possible.
It sucks. And I’m in therapy for this lol it’s supposed to be better! but a lot of it does come from this mindset that we don’t have emotions or are incapable of sharing them in a meaningful way. I’ve explained it a thousand times to people and only other guys have gotten it most of the time.
I feel this in my soul. I’m currently at the point in my therapy where I understand what should be happening, but what is happening is completely different.
I think for me it’s just I’ve done it so long, I’m semi successful, so my brain is like “why change? Look at what you’ve done if you change now, what if it all goes away?” And rationally I know that won’t happened but that’s that mid-west upbringing biting me in the ass.
I’m fortunate to have a lot of very supportive male friends and we all tell each other this as often as we can: you only fail if you stop trying. So long as you get up and attempt the work, you’re not failing, you’re learning. I’m hopeful I can keep that mindset and keep trying, and hope you can as well.
As a trans masculine person I got the opposite problem. My anger was never treated as a valid response so after basically being treated as though my anger was funny, stupid or cute but ultimately unacceptable I lost my ability to feel it for a long while. I couldn’t pick it out of the slurry of internal emotions. Functionally anger is a means to not just feel injustices but motive to externalize the source and feel empowered to do something. To fight on your own behalf. Not living without anger meant everything was turned around. I couldn’t fight for myself . When something bad happened to me I would find ways to make it my fault. When I eventually snapped and tried to hurt someone, when I became temporarily physically frightening for short spell to another person, it was so far beyond a conscious process because if I was in the headspace of my conditioning I should have been rendered powerless.
Separating anger out of the mass of just negative emotional mass and being able to not just feel it, but to indulge it and express it took me decades to manage. For a long while I couldn’t help but feel whenever I was angry I was transgressing. I was doing something that was illogical and isolating. I also wasn’t very good at it. I also couldn’t meet resistance without just feeling powerless or like I was in the wrong.
My anger still isn’t treated seriously by other people. I envy cis men their ability to have their anger actually taken seriously at the same time I recognize that a full range of expressions of powerlessness and weakness were always allowed for me and denied them. Not just allowed… but rewarded with sympathy.
I lost a job a year ago for a fairly tame expression of anger. The sort anyone more comfortably coded as a man would be excused for just for feeling his feelings. My cis male coworkers around me validated that anger as perfectly rational and my reaction as fairly analogous to stuff they had done and easily gotten away with in the past…but it was treated as an unforgivable sin in my case because I was held to a different standard of emotional control. I know that when it comes to interfacing with other am never supposed to act on my feelings of anger directly. I am culturally supposed to seek concensus and sympathy from other people by at best talking about it or outwardly displaying helplessness at the injustice. People who recognize and treat me as a man will acknowledge my anger better because they recognize that aspect of them in me. Those that code me as female generally however don’t really don’t recognize my anger as valid and treat me as though I have lost my mind. I recognize there are missing tools in my social kit that were stolen from me and it sucks absolute donkey nuts.
Gendering emotions cause real harm and internal disregulation. Being culturally frozen out of your feelings regardless of the targeted feeling is awful. I really hope it gets better for you. Being stuck with half a kit is excruciating.
My wife says my brain is broken - because I’ve always treated everyone exactly the same. I wouldn’t say something to a guy I couldn’t say to a gal, it’s just not who I am. With that, I believe and understand that we all have the same emotions and should be free (within reason, don’t stab people) to express those feelings. Hopefully in a constructive way but sometimes you just gotta let shit out or vent.
I don’t believe it’s fair to treat someone different because “well x gender shouldn’t act like that.” Shut up you don’t know, none of us know for sure this jello we have in our skulls or how it’s going to interpret the information we receive or how that might make us feel until it happens. And even then, depending on the situation, it could be something we’ve experienced before and we feel a different way about it this one time.
I have a daughter, I don’t want people telling her how to feel or “you have to be pretty so you can get a boyfriend”. Be yourself, have fun, come work on cars with me and go fishing, go with your mom when she gets her nails done, be you. And anyone who isn’t ok with you being you can come talk to me. Gendering the way we feel or how we should react is just stupid. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
It’s done unthinkingly a lot of the time. My folks did their best to encourage me to not be cowed by gendered expectations but you as a parent have to contend with other kids, other parents and adults who bring their own baggage.
I think young boys need to be given those freedoms more - to go and get nails done with Mum or not categorically reject pastimes not historically coded for them but that’s not the be all and end all. It’s just the start. We got to recognize ourselves in each other. I am particularly vulnerable to this stuff because women feel like a completely different tribe from me so being treated like one stings extra and not all men accept or see me as one of them which means my behaviour is often policed due to different standards than people I see as my group.
A lot of misogyny when it’s directed at you feels like being treated like a child which when you know you aren’t going to “grow up” in a recognizable way to those people until basically you start looking wrinkly will fuck you up. Conversely I have to make sure my partner isn’t locking his feelings up too hard because despite his parents trying to avoid forcing that masculine coding on him he still picked it up.
I remember a lot from school where my peers did that as well - something they learned from somewhere obviously, we were all children.
My son is given that freedom - he gets to experience the same life my daughter does, be you and don’t apologize. His room is painted purple because that’s the color he wanted, he’s got longer hair than his mom, he gets to feel things and express them in a safe space with understanding. But I can’t control what others do, as much as I accept him for who he is does not mean others will. So I try to teach him that if he is happy with himself, that’s all that matters. Be true to you kind of deal. Because I definitely didn’t get that.
Hi. I went through a lot of therapy, and currently am not and am stable. The healthiest I’ve been in ages. Please don’t be discouraged, you’re digging up emotional corpses, so it’s going to be painful and stinky. Feeling things that were painful originally will be super painful, but the only way out is through. Facing those feelings, untangling endless snarls takes a long time. It does feel worse and frustrating and horrific, for a time. With diligence, persistence and lots of self-compassion and unconditional love, it does get better, with decent therapy. After you get through the most horrific and scary parts, I encourage you to do shadow work. Due to financial and transportation issues, I was forced out of therapy before it was appropriate. I foundered for some months, then told “friends” stop coming over, stop bringing cigarettes, weed, alcohol, sweets, anything, if I wanted it, I’d ask. And I sat alone with myself and learned to see myself in every single person that harmed me, in some fashion or form, or how I could see me, if I thought this or it could come across in various ways than I’d meant certain things I did or said, after I dealt with and stopped justifying wrongs I did and said.
I’m so much more stable now. And I’m stuck on two different wounds, but one I think is largely irrelevant, because that parent and I have been nc for so so long, I seldom think of them anymore, and when I do, it’s with understanding to an extent, and compassion. The other one in still in contact with and an able to maintain compassion, as long as they’re not pick pick picking, when I can’t remove myself immediately. I’m working with nonreactivity, returning to compassion for self, immediately after removing myself, and returning to compassion, for them, after regaining my composure. I will say, ignoring attempted triggers outwardly, acknowledging inwardly and also acknowledging I can’t change them and how full of self-loathing and shame someone must be to have to project, hate and gaslight so many, for the greater part of a century must be so awful. Especially when it stems from being horrifically abused as a child and growing up and young adulting didn’t have psychotherapy available to regular people, and celebrities were shamed for it.
You can do this. I’ve got all confidence in your ability to not only handle it, but genuinely heal.
I’m very stubborn so I don’t quit things I start. I’ll keep trying - thank you for sharing your story with me and for your support. It means a ton.
You are welcome, and thank you for telling me that. It looks like many of us here support you. Please come converse with us, when IRL support is lacking.
People forget all the time that life is a collective experience. We don’t just do this ourselves - as many times as I’ve lost my shit there are plenty of others out there that have done the same.
I believe if we lift each other up every opportunity we get we will all be better for it. Within reason, don’t elect sociopaths, but as humans we all evolved by helping each other. I love people. COVID fucked that up for me for a long time but I still love people. It’s just… say hi once in a while that weirdo might be a nice person you can talk to.
As long as you have happiness (a tool that only works in a couple of scenarios), sadness (Phillips head screwdriver, extremely useful all the time), and anger (a big, blunt instrument to be used in every other situation whether it’s appropriate or not) I can’t imagine why we’d need more.
You’re missing fear. Which is a really important tool. Possibly the most important one.
But yeah, happiness, fear, anger and sadness are the basic emotions. But that’s like red, blue, and yellow were the basic colors you used in elementary school painting. You get different degrees and different blends of them and that’s where the complexity comes in. Rage, anger, annoyance? Different degrees of anger. Anticipation? It’s some degree of happiness and fear. Grief? Usually some happiness, fear, and a lot of sadness.
Fear is unbelievably important in this conversation.
Fear is linked to anger for me in a lot of ways because that’s just how I survived for a while. Afraid? Ok fight or flight time let’s go.
Disassociating those two is a massive part of my therapy lol.
Itching, burning, and mild headache?
Yeah you go guys, it’s all super important no matter the gender and ethnocultural background. Suffering alone has no meaning. death stranding incredible track about this
Men feel things not feelings.
As a man, this makes me feel like you need to be slapped upside the head.
Bruh hold on he promised me I could feel his thing
Yeah, because abusing abusers and unwell always works. That’s why bombing countries that have terrorists in them have eradicated terrorism (not saying the human being you replied to is a terrorist, went to an extreme example for illustrative purposes).
In all seriousness, that reply right there shows healing is needed.
As a man, your comment makes me believe that you’re feeling some frustration and should probably try to express it through words and not physical violence.
Reeeeeee
These comments highlight the issue mentioned in the post so well
I feel the need to point out that this guy is basically just pointing out the specific message posted here on the image
(When I read the images I was thinking: "things? What kind of things? Sensations? Diarrhea? The need for respect? Motherfucker just say FEELINGS)
as a way for us to call attention to it and reflect on it instead of the misrepresentation of an slight or derogatory meaning.
Y’all need to calm the fuck down
i feel with my fingers
