Not my original content, but something I stand by
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I know it’s a joke, but why would a shapeshifter 350 years into the future on a planet 50 lightyears away be guilty of any of the same prejudices that our local cops are?
Never ask:
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A woman her age.
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A man his salary.
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Odo what he did during the Cardassian occupation of Bajor.
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The A in ACAB stands for “ALL.” Even to 350 year old shapeshifters in a totally different part of the galaxy, hundreds of years from now.
And I mean, just look at his record from the Occupation. He did some fucked up shit.
If you actually watched the episodes you’d know that a) he didn’t do fucked up shit, he made a mistake and b) he actually cared about justice and c) he not only knew about the mistake, it was eating him up inside.
This is still a joke mind you, but whose justice?
“No cops at pride” is not about the prejudices of individual cops, be they fictional future shapeshifters from half a galaxy away, or real police here and now. There are LGBTQ+ cops out there.
The issue is the fact that cops enforce the law regardless of how just the law might be. Odo was the chief of security aboard Terek Nor while it was under Cardassian control, and while in that role rushed three innocent Bajoran workers to execution so he could maintain order aboard the station.
Even once the station became Bajoran owned and Starfleet operated, Odo was still willing to conduct illegal surveillance, lock people in the detention facility on trumped up charges, and impose a strict curfew. Personally I don’t think it would be too much of a stretch to assume that Odo would be willing to lock up people participating in a Pride event for no other reason than that he was told to do so, and they were causing a minor disruption on the Promenade.
pssh some people have no respect for tradition
Because when he was learning to live among humanoids, the rule of law provided a form of structure he could understand, and Odo has yet to surpass the cognitive development milestone of a 12 year old.
Kira isn’t Starfleet, so that means she just grabbed Jadzia’s phaser and pointed it at someone!
Kira doesn’t care about regulations
Why no cops?
In the US cops:
- Take trans kids away from supportive parents in states with laws against that
- Selectively target LGBT people for unequal enforcement of often unconstitutional laws (ex: obscenity laws)
- Disproportionately use force against trans people (more than 1/4th according to the ACLU).
Imagine how much it would fuck you up if a cop kicked you around, threw you in lockup with the wrong gender, and then you see the shit stain getting paid to be at Pride.
And just being there, getting paid to do nothing is the best you can hope for. Plenty of times they just watch bigots harass or attack the people at Pride and either do nothing or arrest the victims.
Cops who want to come to Pride out of uniform on their own time because they’re LGBT+ or whatever, most people don’t care about that.
More importantly, Pride itself a reference to the Stonewall Riots, in which cops brutally assaulted LGBTQ+ citizens with great malice and the citizens fought back.
June 28th, 1969
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots
The first Pride Parade was a year later, on June 27th, 1970
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_parade#First_pride_marches
The reason cops shouldn’t be allowed at Pride is because cops violence against the LGBTQ+ community is why Pride fucking exists to begin with.
One of my friends from a local theater group I did some musicals with had a brick pin they wear to every pride event they attend.
It’s my favorite pin ever.
Damn… US cops are really just the worst most of the time.
Yeah, Germany would never do that.
It’s a bit of a general issue. The police in itself is good, however… it’s a job that puts people into a position of power. Power corrupts, and if you factor in that they’re not well paid (because tanks and so on are better ways to spend a budget…) but are supposed to put their lives on the line, then get treated either like the enemy or the “thin blue line” I see how things can go bad. Being a public service, they’re managed by the government and sent to deal with trouble accordingly, and the definition of trouble varies with whoever is at the top. Sprinkle in some dangerous levels of nationalism, the US being a super power and you most certainly get to hear about their unrest, while the stuff going on in your own country might be less flashy.
A small trivia bit that you might or might not know: at the beginning there was this organization that was created to protect the people from abuses by local lords. Everyone knows what an unholy shitfest that got corrupted into, given that I’m talking about the mafia…
Police are not a net good when they are used instead of taking care of basic human needs. Police enforce eviction but never kneecap a housing scalper… I mean landlord.
I’m gonna get eviscerated for saying this, but take what you hear here with a grain of salt.
Lemmy doesn’t exactly reflect the experience of the average American.
Counterpoint: “40 percent of the officers stated that in the last six months prior to the survey they had gotten out of control and behaved violently against their spouse and children.”
And that’s just the ones who freely admit to being abusers. It doesn’t take a huge mental leap to realize that a position of authority with a low barrier of entry is a magnet to people who want to abuse that power.
You can find the source for that survey, as well as the context here: https://sites.temple.edu/klugman/2020/07/20/do-40-of-police-families-experience-domestic-violence/
According to that link the study was conducted in 1983 and counts shouting as abuse.
doesn’t shouting still count as verbal abuse?
You ever shout during an argument? Congratulations, you’re abusive now.
See how ridiculous that is?
Shower grade thought: whatever protest or manifestation proud boys might do, with firearms in plain view, nobody is going to even notice. Pride, BLM or similar if there’s guns for actual self defense rather than intimidation? How big of a bloodbath would it to turn into?
@Catoblepas @DmMacniel “grips”?
Congrats on seeing the autocorrect typo in the 10 seconds it took me to edit it out ;p Assuming it federated out properly anyway
I understand, but also with no cops we wouldn’t have this beautiful teardown
Thanks for adding that “in the US” bit because not all countries have shit for brain police
Because they almost always act like pricks and they’ve got a rich history of oppressing and harrassing LGBTI people. That’s why.
Stonewall was caused by NYPD, soo… it might feel weird to have police at Pride now?
Oh damn, I had no Idea.
Stonewall was a mafia bar that paid off the cops to leave their largely LGBTQ clients alone. The cops decided to ignore the agreement and harass the LGBTQ people there, and it turned into days of violence.
Because the police enforce the laws of the state, often with violence. If the law dictates that a person being open about their identity is illegal regardless of the fact their identity harms no one, and everyone involved in their actions consents, than it is the responsibility of the cops to oppress them. One year the cops might march alongside people at pride, and then the laws might change and they’ll be there to bust heads of anyone who shows up the next year.
And yeah, there no doubt exist LGBTQ+ cops, or cops whose friends and/or family whom they love are LGBTQ+, but so long as they wear the uniform they represent an organization used to oppress marginalized and minority communities.
Fundamentally, pride is not just a party, it is a protest.
Fundamentally, pride is not just a party, it is a protest.
Rainbow parades or Rainbow bricks.
Ain’t no one going to let Stonewall happen again without a fight.
That rainbow brick goes hard
Damn I’d love one of those
Fundamentally, pride is not just a party, it is a protest.
And people often tend to say “but why do they need the parade if we let them be?” Because otherwise it’ll be a couple of years before someone will start lynchings.
I just hope the society will sometimes be free of fear for everyone
read about the stonewall riots for history on the cops vs. LGBTQ people.
Why does the Major have a lesbian flag?
Because that’s what the artist decided to draw. Maybe Kira has it for someone she knows who identifies as a lesbian. Maybe she was just getting into the spirit of things and grabbed the first flag she saw.
Obviously in canon Kira only expresses interest in dudes with the personalities of dry toast, but mirror Kira is a bit more open. It’s not entirely clear if sexual orientation is 1:1 across universes, so who’s to say if prime Kira experiences same sex attraction or not?
Serious observation, Prime Sulu is straight and Kelvin Sulu is gay (there was a whole brou ha ha about that with George Takei when Beyond came out). So there is a possibility of orientation deviation (heh) between timelines if they stray far enough from each other.
In the case of the Mirror Universe, I think it’s strictly a “same exact people but in different situations” thing. Even while it was still on the air, I assumed Prime Kira was closeted and that was part of why none of her relationships worked out.
Prime Sulu is straight and Kelvin Sulu is gay
Do we know that prime Sulu is straight? He flirts with a woman in “The Way to Eden” and when the literal devil from Christen mythology is aboard the Enterprise in “The Magiks of Megas-Tu” Sulu is able to conjure a woman using the magical properties.
Mirror Sulu clearly is interested in Uhura, despite her rebuffs.
And we do see Kelvin Sulu ever so briefly with his husband and child in “Beyond”, causing an uproar well out of proportion to how little the movie choose to show.
However, all those characters might be bisexual. We do exist.
Even while it was still on the air, I assumed Prime Kira was closeted and that was part of why none of her relationships worked out.
People have relationships that don’t work out without being queer.
But yeah, prime Kira is a religious conservative who is grossed out by how libertine Dax is – dating Ferengi, and dudes with transparent skulls – and while we’re never told how Bajorans view queer relationships, I do view mirror Kira’s more unrestrained nature as indication that her prime counterpart is holding back a part of herself.
Yes, it was about being gay or straight. Kelvin Sulu was given a husband in honor of George Takei… an honor he rebuked because he felt they only changed the character for cheap representation points. He insisted that even though he is gay, the Sulu he portrayed is straight. (In Generations, Sulu is married and has a daughter, Demora, who helmed the Enterprise-B.)
Personally, I feel like since John Cho’s Sulu is a different person in a different universe (and Cho himself is cool being a straight Korean playing a gay Japanese) Takei didn’t need to get so angry about it.
We do exist.
Please don’t assume that I thought otherwise just because I didn’t explicitly mention every potentiality in that one post.
He insisted that even though he is gay, the Sulu he portrayed is straight.
“Unfortunately, it’s a twisting of Gene’s creation, to which he put in so much thought. I think it’s really unfortunate.”
Takei was not into it, but I do feel like he was overselling just how much thought Roddenberry put into the side characters in Trek. Sulu didn’t even get a given name until “The Voyage Home”, a film Roddenberry had nothing to do with.
(In Generations, Sulu is married and has a daughter, Demora, who helmed the Enterprise-B.)
Demora is Sulu’s daughter, but there’s no mention that Sulu was married, or if he was that it was to a woman.
(and Cho himself is cool being a straight Korean playing a gay Japanese)
Funny you mention the character’s nationality, considering that Roddenberry envisioned Sulu as some pan-Asian character on indeterminate nationality. Sulu is not a Japanese name, and Roddenberry chose to name the character after the Sulu sea of the coast of the Philippians.
Please don’t assume that I thought otherwise just because I didn’t explicitly mention every potentiality in that one post.
That was not my assumption. I just can’t think of any reason to assume that Sulu is not bi or pan, given what we know about the various iterations of the character.
Sometimes the best songs are those that can be interpreted in different, personal ways
Mirror Georgiou puts forward the same hypothesis in Discovery when she sexually harasses Stamets and his boytoy.
And she’s right.
I’m straight, can I wear a pride flag?
Absolutely! The basic rainbow is good to show support regardless of orientation. You could do specific one(s) if you have people that identify as that, it just might require additional explanation.
Not 100%, but I feel the author may just be engaging in some Kira/Dax shipping. Which wouldn’t jibe great with the canon, but when has that ever stopped a good ship?
@BowtiesAreCool @USSBurritoTruck because it’s Pride and she wants to have one
I’d rather know why Dax has the flag of Döbern, Brandenburg.
It’s the pansexual flag.
Ah, pink, not red! That explains why my search for red yellow blue turned up nothing more relevant.
So not even gender fluid cops like Odo?
To be fair, I think he’s just regular fluid
Odo definitely identifies as male.
And yes.
What’s with these “no cops at Pride” comics?
police have a long and vibrant history of violent abuse of those who identify as LGBT+
Shouldn’t we be working against that, though? Isn’t that the whole point of Pride… AND TREK?
Yes, that’s why we’re trying to abolish the police
wellll… defund the police. Those are very different things. Taking money away from their protection and toys, for example, and putting it into training and non-police personal has been a major point of it.
A policing force that were not fundamentally corrupt in the way police are, would necessarily be an all new organisation with all new people, and it would not be called the police. Abolish the police and replace them with something better.
If the new police, whatever you want to call them, have the power to enforce laws then they will be subject to all the same pressures as current police. Power corrupts!
The fact remains though is that there’s a very large number of people in the US who want the police to commit the violence they have. They’re voting for the politicians who pass these laws.
They won’t be subject to being an organisation descended from slave catchers
neither the point of pride, nor the point of Trek, has anything to do with including your oppressors/keeping your enemies closer. Unless you think Cardassians were the point?
Cardassians like Tekeny Ghemor and Aamin Marritza are right in line with the point of Trek.
* woosh *
Don’t be a jerk.
Don’t invite wolves to the paddock.
LGBT+ people have learned not to trust the police, and so will have a hard time relaxing and enjoying themselves if they are around.
Cops have motive, means and opportunity to abuse minorities they don’t “approve” of. Therefore (and because of previous form) they have made themselves unwelcome.
It’s Pride Month.
But that’s not the part I’m asking about.
People don’t want cops at pride events.
Then be specific.
Don’t be obtuse.
I’m genuinely not. Say what you mean, champ.
I’m obviously asking why no cops. I don’t believe you didn’t understand that. But clearly, you’re not willing to discuss it, so I’ll withdraw the question.
Cops are generally shitty people who don’t belong in any places where citizens express themselves.
Ah, well that question has been answered by others and myself elsewhere in this thread. Sorry for assuming that you might have checked to see if your question was already answered before asking it.
But hey, just for you, I’ll repost what I’ve already said:
Because the police enforce the laws of the state, often with violence. If the law dictates that a person being open about their identity is illegal regardless of the fact their identity harms no one, and everyone involved in their actions consents, than it is the responsibility of the cops to oppress them. One year the cops might march alongside people at pride, and then the laws might change and they’ll be there to bust heads of anyone who shows up the next year.
And yeah, there no doubt exist LGBTQ+ cops, or cops whose friends and/or family whom they love are LGBTQ+, but so long as they wear the uniform they represent an organization used to oppress marginalized and minority communities.
Fundamentally, pride is not just a party, it is a protest.
The Stonewall riots is a good place to start your history studies on the matter.
Thanks for your completely sincere suggestion, which I’m sure was made in a good faith effort to have a mature and intelligent discussion on this topic, but I’m actually very well versed in LGBT+ history already.
Oh, so you’re just trolling then, because I was answering honestly and you were asking in bad faith to be a troll.
