Bibi will switch off the defenses again, to create more outrage and extremism and stay in power.
So stupid. If they were smart, Iran’s leadership would use this opportunity to gain international support and clout by behaving like the reasonable ones while Israel is going rogue.
What I struggle with the most is how the West just shrugged shoulders when Israel hit embassies in foreign countries.
If this has happened in any other country/embassy the international outcry would have been much bigger. Those double standards which we apply to international politics are despicable. And this also creates a sense of impunity in Israel and we all see what that leads to.
How can you preach morale when you yourself are wicked?
You know who Iran funds right? Hezbollah. It’s not like this was completely unprovoked. (Not defending Israel)
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Are you seriously so thick or just love trolling?
Israel struck an Iranian embassy. Some things demand a response.
Not everyone can be China and shrug off the US bombing their embassy in Serbia.
Israel has been bombing them for ages. At some point people are allowed to defend themselves.
That’s true, but is that a wise move, geopolitically? If Iran retaliates with force, it risks escalation, because Israel will hit back, likely with the help of its powerful allies. Iran’s BRICS allies may stand by it, or they may keep a distance, not wanting to get dragged into armed conflict. Such an attack will also shift moral and media focus away from the genocide in Gaza, allowing Israel to play up external threats in its public messaging.
Its BRICS allies will support Iran if it makes its case to the UN for an international response, and it may get support from other nations which are fed up with Israel at the moment. It seems like the international order is spooked right at the moment about Israel’s and Ecuador’s attacks on embassies; it’s a good time to make this pitch. And if the UN does little to address Iran’s grievances, its leaders can play that up at home as evidence of hostility toward it by the West to undermine the pro-Western youth movement threatening their rule.
This is looking at it from the point of view of Iran’s interests. From my point of view, less bombing of things and less war is better for the world.
Iran would not get any support, aside from maybe Russia or Syria.
Well, and Russia does not have much of war resources to spare, and Syria is not exactly the biggest player in town. Yes, they do have and used poison gas on enemies, but that would probably lead to “The Crater, formerly known as Damascus”.
Lol? You’re ok with a nuclear Iran? You’re chill with having another geopolitical actor holding a gun to Europe? Maybe sit down and think things thru before you open your mouth.
At the moment, Israel doesn’t look quite like a player you’d trust with nukes either
A nuclear Iran to counter an unhinged, nuclear, and genocidal Israel maybe isn’t the worst thing.
If Iran isn’t paying you for spouting these beliefs, they really should.
If somebody is talented at something, it may morally be wrong to do it for free. Just saying if you aren’t already in the propaganda business.
By the way, I just read through your profile. I have a feeling that the paid propaganda accusation may be projection? You seem to accuse a lot of people of it. Your victim complex is pretty heavy too.
Maybe all those downvotes you’re getting are because you have extreme, shitty positions?
Of course, why wouldn’t you read through a guy’s post history, see him talk about how he likes bang bus, and immediately think to yourself, “this guy is the Israeli intelligence Agency”? You would have to be a sane person to think otherwise.
But in all serious, I never accused you, I said you should be paid for your work. You have a talent here and I think you could go far in a caliphate.
You’re projecting again.
Obviously the US and Europe isn’t up to countering the genocidal lunatics in charge of Israel. How else can we stop the genocide?
Yes, nuclear proliferation is horrible, but MAD was the basis of much of the last century’s global framework for a reason. When you have a rogue nation like Israel threatening the whole region, I don’t know a better alternative. Do you?
Why stop with Iran? Make sure we get the nukes into the hands of Hamas.
That’s what you really want.
For all your bitching in your post history about people putting words in your mouth, you sure are quick to misrepresent my position.
So, in your opinion, how do you stop the genocidal and regionally destabilizing actions of Israel? How would you fight the psychopaths running that country?
They would have all their land and thousands more women and children alive and well if they did have them.
You dont get to decide who has enough clout to be taken seriously. The US made it so nukes aree essential if you are not their ally. I am not okay with anyone having them, but they are there so it is fair game.
Actions have consequences
Haha. Good one.
That’s an interesting take.
I think it helps to remember that these decisions are often made by people who have very specific goals that aren’t aligned with the nation itself. Generals who want to get promoted to higher levels, government ministers looking to curry favor with their patrons.
You might be right, but they’re likely not trying to improve Iran’s standing. They’re looking to each improve their own. Also, most people in these positions, in my observation ARE very dumb.
Iran wants to keep their street cred.
After America killed their general, they let us know when they’d be attacking. They didn’t want any Americans being killed but they didn’t want to look like punks. They knew we wouldn’t escalate.
Making that assumption with Israel is stupid. If they kill one person, Iran is going to get bombed. Israel doesn’t back down. With the recent riots in Iran, the government may collapse.
With the recent riots in Iran, the government may collapse.
Yeah no.
Already headed that direction.
If an Israeli airstrike took out cc and things such as power. The people may rebel.
Attempts have been made, there will be a gradual push but energy for such a rebellion hasn’t got the momentum. It’ll take a little while yet for those who pushed in recent years to be replaced by those with no fear.
I mean it didn’t go too well for Iran, they fired some missiles at US bases in Iraq and then promptly shot down a civilian passenger jet.
I guess when your friends include Russia that might still be worth some street cred.
I forgot about them shooting down their own plane.
you assume finding a reasonable end was ever on their agenda
Naw, I’m just highlighting the difference between what smart leaders would do, compared to what Iran’s leaders will probably do.
Is Israel now in the find out phase?
Not really, sadly.
No but Hamas is :)
The attack is expected to come in the form of missile or drone strikes against Israeli government sites
I already said this phrase last week because I don’t expect Iran to actually escalate the situation or send actual assets like the air force because they too are just as incompetent at fighting as their arab nation neighbors.
I’d love to see a skilled airforce or military take on the IDF, but afaik that doesn’t exist around Israel besides the USA.
That would be a very dumb move by Iran.
Hmm, now replace Iran with the USA, and tell me how would you feel if someone has bombed your embassy and killed a bunch of its employees? Would you still tell us that the US should not retaliate?
I don’t know that is the best analogy.
I mean both of you are correct. I find it difficult to say that Iran would be wrong to retaliate. They have all the right in the world to do so.
Would it be a wise decision? I don’t think so. A war against Israel wouldn’t be beneficial for them. But if they start one, they are fully within their rights.
Iran is not the United States. We have the military might to strike anywhere in the world. We can invade any country in the world. Iran can’t do any of those things. I get why they want to strike back but strategically it’s a bad move. I think they should pitch their case to the UN. Israel should not have attacked their consulate. It wasn’t an embassy that was attacked. Hell I support Israel but I can’t defend attacking the consulate. I won’t even attempt to defend that.
And that’s exactly the double standards I was talking about. Letting someone act with impunity creates a very dangerous precedent.
It’s not a double standard. It’s just a fact.
If they escalate with Israel. It won’t benefit Iran. Netanyahu isn’t afraid to use further force. He’s shown that in Gaza.
Might makes right is the dumbest position, bar none.
Glad nobody claimed that.
Let him use it more. He will get the hitler treatment
You are right. Iran doesn’t know that Tehran will be turned into a hot sheet of glass if it fucks around too hard.
Edit: true know-nothings downvoting this post. We’re on the verge of war with Iran right now, wait and see. Hope you’re right.
Hmmm, you realise that your actions have consequences, right?
If you oppress people for decades and then act surprised when they strike back, or when you strike a foreign embassy in a foreign country, you can’t really expect to get a carte blanche for all your shit, you know.
And honestly Netanyahu is doing all possible to prolong this war, otherwise he is toast and hopefully imprisoned toast for all the shit he has done.
Israel has been oppressing Iran for decades? Delusional. Who do you think give Hamas all its suicide bombs and rockets?
I don’t know what it would take for Israel to use nukes but I hope we don’t find out.
Yeah. Because Arab nations don’t have the resources as Western ones, they typically have to resort to terrorism to fight back.
This is why the “war on terror” is such a big deal. It means that any poor nation who tries to fight a wealthy one is immediately in the wrong.
Iran isn’t an Arab nation, nor Afghanistan or a plethora of other countries we’ve fought. Your point stands though. That’s why they revert to terrorism.
I think we should have allied with Iran to fight isis
Right now you are talking like a high school bully.
It would be a very dumb move, the problem is they think it’s ordained by God.
Biden and Scholz have proven that there is literally nothing that will stop them from supporting Genocide. They really want WW3.
Israel committed a blatant act of war on Iran and they keep delivering israel weapons and. Biden even blocked UN condemnation of it.
At some point the Iran cannot conclude anything other than diplomacy with Nazis being impossible. The only reason israel can do unlimited escalation is because Genocide Joe endorses it all.
That’s a pretty huge detour to take to decide that Iran attacking Israel for an action Israel took is Joe Biden’s fault. Things are allowed to happen in the world without them being the fault of the US.
Yeah how could an American F35 throwing an American bomb and American blocking of the UN resolution be Joe Bidens fault?
I cannot figure out how Joe Biden supplying israel with all the equipment to commit this extreme violation of international law and afterwards promising to protect israel against any retaliation could possibly be relevant here.
A US company selling F35s doesn’t make them responsible for everything that F35 ever does. There were no American decision makers saying to bomb the Iranian embassy. There was a US decision maker when the US (prior administration) killed Qasem Soleimani, blame them for that. You have to see the clear daylight between killing someone with a gun and selling someone a rifle they later use for murder.
Promising to protect Israel is a tactic to prevent retaliation, obviously. If you asked the Vatican I’d bet they are against Iran retaliating. It doesn’t retroactively cause blame for Israel’s actions to shift to everyone who doesn’t want Iran to retaliate.
Selling weapons to a person or group which you know will abuse them does actually make you guilty.
Can you address the party where American blocked condemnation of the strike at the UN by the way?
Blocking condemnation doesn’t cause guilt for the initial act. You can agree or disagree with that activity separate from anything else we are discussing.
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Listen: I get it. But I’ve spent the last 6 months telling people that no matter how angry you get, saying this about Gaza is a call to genocide, and is an impulse we must all recognize and reject.
So I have to say it to you too. “Leveling the whole country” is always an endorsement to kill every child and otherwise powerless person in that country. Hell, two million Israelis – 20% of Israel’s population – are Palestinian.
If you’re mad about what Netanyahu and the Zionist movement are doing, call for JUSTICE, not retribution against the innocent.
Ok so maybe not levelling the whole country but delivering a plague that just drops the humans dead while keeping the country unleveled. Is that better? /S
No
Who is innocent in Israel? Who is actively fighting their government?
Where’s the Israeli White Rose &tc?Because I don’t consider the average German during WW2 innocent, nor do I consider the average Israeli today. They are complacent in allowing their genocidal state to exist and commit its evils.
Seriously fuck Israel, the nation has no right to exist.
Who is innocent in
IsraelGaza? Who is actively fighting their government?This is how you sound. For one, loads of people are fighting the government in Israel. But much worse, this is exactly the same reasoning used to justify the very thing you’re (rightfully) angry about
Thanks, I think more people need to try approaching things like this and see how word substitution sounds.
Word substitution is the strongest weapon against extremism and radicalization.
The difference being that in Israel fighting the government might actually do something since it’s a democracy, and in Gaza fighting the government will simply get you killed for being an infidel.
it’s a democracy
Israel has been rocked by protests and strikes for the last year. Tens of thousands of Israelis are in the streets demanding an election. But lets set that aside for a second.
Try to explain your whole attitude to the TWO MILLION PALESTINIAN CITIZENS OF ISRAEL. I’m not talking about the people living under occupation. I’m talking about people with Israeli citizenship who are Palestinian. Do you want to guess how the police in Israel treat you if you’re an arab citizen and go to a protest? I’ll give you a hint: their head of police is Itmar Ben-Gvir. He was convicted of terrorism by his own country. His public position is that he would like to ethnically cleanse both Israel and the occupied territories. And he runs the national police.
Think about what you’re saying when you damn everyone in Israel because “it’s a democracy” when it’s an apartheid police state.
Look I didn’t invent political science and define Israel’s representative government as a democracy. Take it up with the academics, and the dictionary people for that matter.
Roughing up protesters isn’t a crime against humanity. The treatment of Arabs or Palestinians in Israel is nothing like the treatment of blacks in South Africa. There are Palestinians working in every field and industry and in all levels of government, living wherever they want, voting for whoever they want, marrying whoever they want, having kids with whoever they want. There is a Palestinian on the Israeli Supreme Court, like if you want to argue Apartheid describes certain treatment of minority noncitizens okay I can see your reasoning at least but in what concievable grounds is Israel’s treatment of Palestinian citizens of Israel substantially the same to Afrikaner treatment of blacks in South Africa? To me what you’ve said here sounds like what flat eartherism must sound like to a an astrophysicist.
I think this video does a very good job of laying this out plainly:
The Video That Got Me Fired: Israel IS An Apartheid State
It’s 12 minutes long, and in it Katie Halper points out that it’s been labeled an Apartheid state by Zionists and Afrikanners for decades. Israeli prime ministers and Nelson Mandela, academics, and human rights groups have been saying this for generations.
If you want to call it something else, feel free. But whatever you call it, it needs to end.
Also: they don’t “rough up” protesters. They disappear them. They throw them in prison and torture them. They take them away from their families indefinitely without charges or kill them for posts on social media. This is not minor ethnic repression. The head of police, as I mentioned, is a convicted terrorist.
Really I must have missed the part in South African history where they had any blacks on their Supreme Court.
Regardless, the defining characteristic of Apartheid is rule over the uncontenting majority by the minority. That is the harm of apartheid and that the thing that makes it a crime against humanity as opposed to regular old discrimination.
Regardless, the defining characteristic of Apartheid is rule over the uncontenting majority by the minority.
Source for the majority/minority claim?
That is the harm of apartheid and that the thing that makes it a crime against humanity as opposed to regular old discrimination.
But “regular old discrimination” is still not a good thing, right?
Amnesty International has analysed Israel’s intent to create and maintain a system of oppression and domination over Palestinians and examined its key components: territorial fragmentation; segregation and control; dispossession of land and property; and denial of economic and social rights. It has concluded that this system amounts to apartheid. Israel must dismantle this cruel system and the international community must pressure it to do so. All those with jurisdiction over the crimes committed to maintain the system should investigate them.
Across these areas and in most aspects of life, Israeli authorities methodically privilege Jewish Israelis and discriminate against Palestinians. Laws, policies, and statements by leading Israeli officials make plain that the objective of maintaining Jewish Israeli control over demographics, political power, and land has long guided government policy. In pursuit of this goal, authorities have dispossessed, confined, forcibly separated, and subjugated Palestinians by virtue of their identity to varying degrees of intensity. In certain areas, as described in this report, these deprivations are so severe that they amount to the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution.
B’Tselem rejects the perception of Israel as a democracy (inside the Green Line) that simultaneously upholds a temporary military occupation (beyond it). B’Tselem reached the conclusion that the bar for defining the Israeli regime as an apartheid regime has been met after considering the accumulation of policies and laws that Israel devised to entrench its control over Palestinians.
That’s funny because I think the entire middle east is apartheid. Jews are only allowed to live in one small strip. They are not allowed to own land in Jordan. They are not allowed to practice their religion in Saudi Arabia. They have been ethnically cleansed from Egypt, Yemen, Iraq, and Syria.
Last I checked Palestine didn’t invade a people’s land, displace them, and run a racist apartheid state for decades, before going full on genocide.
Israel is the aggressor state.
And who? At best you have people protesting because not all hostages were freed, Israelis aren’t doing shit to stop Israeli crimes against humanity.
And who? At best you have people protesting because not all hostages were freed, Israelis aren’t doing shit to stop Israeli crimes against humanity.
True, though before October 7th there were many people protesting Bibi. And while there are not protests for this purpose some Israelis are criticising the crimes against humanity. Not enough, yes, but still.
Last I checked Palestine didn’t invade a people’s land, displace them, and run a racist apartheid state for decades, before going full on genocide.
Israel is the aggressor state.
No shit bro. Just saying this narrative of “there are no innocents” is disgusting and exactly how the worst Israelis and Zionists think of Palestinians. It’s up to you if you want to be that hateful, I’m just saying, maybe take a look in the mirror before you continue
Lets just forget that the hamas founding charter has a section calling for the murder of every single jew on earth, I am sure the hamas is totally cool and not just the same autocratic and right wing bullshit as the IDF or Netanyahu.
The 1988 Charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. The 2017 Charter accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter
The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide
The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. There are also a couple of mention through out the text of the Jews being mortal enemies of the Moslem and that it is their duty to fight and to kill the jew. The promised Day of the Judgement, the moment they are looking forward, cannot come about without an all out war of extinction between Moslems and Jews.
The current charter does not, though. In fact it vaguely advocates for a two state solution and says this:
Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, antisemitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage.
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Fuck both of you bigots
And that’s my friend is called dehumanization, where you stop perceiving the whole nation as a pack of individuals and equals it with their government. Don’t fall into that trap.
I agree with you. It’s exactly what Israel has done with the Palestinians
Absolutely, it is absolutely astonishing and sickening how almost no one in Israel is concerned about the death toll in Palestine and the sheer level of destruction there.
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Genocidal people are the worst!
