- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
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Source post: https://lemmy.world/post/13376939 [email protected]
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In Germany, it will absolutely depend on where you try this. Bigger cities? Yeah, likely. Countryside? You’re lucky if you find someone speaking understandable German, let alone English.
Eh. Most places ive been aren’t like that anymore.
Jazogtsmahamsadirainshirnaschizn!?
Nicht wirklich, nein.
Ich habe viele Deutsche kennengelernt die dachten sie sprächen Hochdeutsch, bis ich sie auf ihren Dialekt und nicht gerade optimale Artikulation aufmerksam machte.
Nun, in dem Fall haben die tatsächlich Hochdeutsch gesprochen, wenn auch kein astreines. Aber wenn die tatsächlich Dialekt gesprochen hätten, hätten sies gewusst und du sehr wahrscheinlich nicjts verstanden
Wordema, das muss’schma erstema üborsetzn
is this actually a word or are you making a joke ?
It’s phonetic writing of a heavy accent and it’s several words without spaces in between to emphasis the slangyness.
Translates to: “Say what? They must have shit in your brain.”
Appreciate the explanation !
That’s because no one speaks actual German (the way it is written), everyone speaks their local variety
I guess that’s kind of similar to English then? At least UK English
Yes
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“You git it’s pronounced bo’oh’o’wa’er”
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The cockney accent is a fun one.
I am an American educated in a private school run by old school posh Brits. Up until the 8th grade (when we got cable) I had a posh British accent that leaned into Mid-Atlantic.
In 1999 I went to London for a Y2K preparations project and I could not understand about half of the words those fucks said.
EDIT: I should go to a vocal coach and try to get my mid-atlantic accent back. I think it’s a fun accent to have.
As someone who was born in London and lived here for most of my life, you mis-pronounced “ass”. It’s correctly pronounced “arse”.
But I’ve no idea what you’re trying to say!
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That sounds like a reason for a stabbing mate.
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Shit happens.
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XD
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As a Russian, I agree. Like okay, man, you have challenged yourself to the level when you easily construct sentences in accusative case, but why? To read Bakunin or understand Letov’s metaphors?
Foreigners who learn Russian out of curiosity are true madlads.
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It’s actually quite close to other European languages. It just seems more different than it is because it’s written in Cyrillic. Which is also surprisingly close to Latin once you learn to read it.
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It also has a tonne of French and German loan words, much more than anyone would expect, and since I speak those languages it makes Russian a lot easier
I’ve dabbled a bit in learning Persian, and I’ve got the same impression.
I took Russian in 6th-8th grade and switched to Spanish the second I could. It’s a cool language but it’s so hard. The only thing I remember are a couple common words and a weird poem about killing a fly with a gun. I don’t even know if it was a real poem or if my teacher was a lunatic.
Definitely a lunatic 😂
i kind of want to, i had no idea it was that hard?
Basic Russian ain’t hard, and it’s easy to get yourself understood. Some are scared by Cyrillic letters, but that’s essentially a fusion of Latin and Greek, and there’s nothing special about it - it’s not hieroglyphics or something. Many, if not most, letters are same as in Latin scripture. Some are a catch though, and designate entirely different sounds - like “c” letter actually meaning “s”, “B” actually meaning “V” etc.
Advanced Russian is a bloody meat grinder. Grammar is such a pain in the ass locals struggle with it, and there’s a LOT of synonymic words to learn if you expect to be fluent or understand what we’re talking about.
On a positive side, despite the huge size of the country, most Russians speak roughly the same standard Russian. There are some regional words, but nothing I would call a dialect is popular anywhere but deep rural areas. You don’t have to learn all that to be fluent.
I’m native Russian speaker and I often reflect on what I’m saying and how I say things. This is very counter-intuitive.
Do you know the joke that ‘flammable’ and ‘inflammable’ mean almost the same things? Guess what, in Russian I can give you a dozen of such pairs, some of them are essential in a casual conversation.
Я учусь русскии язык.
Уже могу сказать “путин иди на хуй”
Ещё только 50 лет больше и я могу понимать родителный падеж. Навернае.
Your Russian is decent but why tf you are spending your life on that
I’m not the same guy you’re responding to.
- Russian language sounds awesome
- Many talented Counter Strike players from Russia that I need to communicate with in games
- Russian language lands in the top 10 of most spoken languages
Point #3 is not the strongest but it is the reason why I have an interest in learning Mandarin (although I have NEVER started the process)
Russian language lands in the top 10 of most spoken languages
It doesn’t necessarily mean that Russian/Mandarin will be in the top 10 among people you meet
There’s a figurative billion of Ukrainian war refugees in Europe now, and almost all of them speak Russian as a first or second language
Спасибо! Мне нравится учить разные языки. Я знаю языки из группа немецкий и латинский, но не славянский. Поэтому я начинал учить русскии.
Swede here. We all speak English. Heck - my kids use English whenever they’re speaking about games or Youtube anyway.
Come to think of it. We should just drop Swedish altogether.
The last time I went to Systembolaget I said “hej” to the cashier who replied “you’re from Finland aren’t you?”
Last time I went to Systembolaget they refused to sell anything to me because of my obviously Finnish accent. Luckily the nearby ICA had no problem in selling me some folköl. My Swedish is passable, it is just obviously from wrong country.
they refused to sell anything to me because of my obviously Finnish accent
Skitsnack, you’re just joking or they thought you were drunk.
I was sober, on my way to Åre - buy some beer, buy some groceries from nearby store. Just to get by for a week of off piste.
It’s just the casual Swedish racism.
So what reason did they say to you when you went to the checkout with your drinks?
As I understood my Swedish was so off that they couldn’t trust my Finnish passport or driving licence to be trustworthy. They claimed they could not verify my age.
I was in over 40 in this exchange.
Did they think the majority of Finns who go through Pakkoruotsi remember anything more than “jag heter homopeter”? 😂 Still seems weird, Systembolaget has always accepted my US driver’s license (this was additionally before “real ID”; it basically was like McLovin’s fake ID), despite the fact that they’re not supposed to accept anything other than a passport for people from outside of the EU. And I looked young then, barely 20 years old.
I would have fought them harder instead of taking folköl instead. Regardless, sorry that happened to you, Finns are our brödrafolk, and it’s a shame if the cashier forgot that.
A Finn wouldn’t pay 100 billion trillion for a light beer at Systembolaget, he’d bring his own for cheap when crossing the border
Cheap Finnish alcohol? You mean Estonian bought beer, right?
I mean, cheaper than Swedish alcohol
Isnt rinkebysvenska swedish turning into a mix of english, turkish, arabic and serb? Tbh im really interested in what will happen to the swedish language in the future. Will they just switch to english or will it slowly turn into a mix like rinkeby? Idk but its interesting to see the lamguage develop. In hungary the state regulates the language so much that we dont really see any development.
Why do you hate yourself and your country’s language?
I was in France and when I tried my best French (which admittedly is not that great) all I got was an angry stare. Like, not one time, but in several cases. I did not understand why. I was just doing my best. 😢
So, I think the map is correct for France.
Did you perhaps forget to say bonjour/excusez moi or other necessary greetings? That’ll make people look angrily at you regardless of how good your french is
Wait those are necessary for social courtesy? Like you have to say, “hello” first?
In case you’re not joking, yes, the French are extremely formal, and starting any interaction without a “hi” will get you weird looks. Main reason Americans think the French are assholes, I guess
Yeah… American here… In my area, a greeting isn’t necessary. It can be appreciated but isn’t required. Even ending conversation without a closing is not uncommon. Spouse gets mad because people just hang up the phone when done instead of a proper goodbye.
Hahaha, the French sternness/politeness reminds me of over here in Czechia
Absolutely, I think a lot of Americans don’t realise that when going to France, and end up having a subpart experience because of it. From our perspective, you are the asshole if you don’t greet people appropriately, which often means we’ll answer in kind.
The basics, bonjour, excusez moi, s’il vous plaît, merci should get you through that. Not assuming people want or can speak English can also be important, so if you can ask them “parlez vous anglais ?” before switching it’s not a bad call
There’s also obviously some people who are assholes or simply having a bad day, that’s a universal thing and France is no exception.
I think I did say hello. I know I said s’il vous plaît and merci. However, I am Dutch and we are known for being a bit rude sometimes. So, maybe I did not behave completely correct according to French customs. I am not sure.
Edit: Or maybe they thought I was German. I did not think that happens anymore, but when I was a child and I would go on a holiday people were sometimes rude if they thought we were German because of WW2.
Unless you interacted with 90 year olds, it’s unlikely anyone would be mad about thinking you’re German these days.
It’s entirely possible you encountered assholes, they do exist, though they’re generally equally assholes to everyone regardless of country of origin so don’t take it personally.
Dutch are not rude, but very direct. Even more so than the Germans. Try dialing the niceties and charms up to 11
I think the directness sometimes is considered rude, however some people appreciate it. I think it depends on the person as well. When I was in Denmark, I found that the Danes were very nice, but even more direct than I was used to. I came there for work presenting my ideas, and they were quite critical (but in a good way). They also had lots of jokes about the Swedes.
How do the Dutch compare to the British? British culture is quite extroverted and smalltalk-y, is Dutch culture more introverted?
I think the Dutch are very open. They like to make a lot of jokes, I think, just like the British. They can be more direct and to the point than the British and they do spend less time on saying things out of politeness. They just want everything to be clear.
I think I observed this with Dutch people… It’s definitely something I can appreciate, and which I strive to do myself (keeping things as clear as possible).
Yes, the opposite side of the same coin is that I sometimes get confused if people are less clear.
I had a Turkish room mate at work and I asked him whether it was okay to open the window. Het said yes (at least I thought so), so I opened the window. The he started talking about people he knew that got pneumonia and he put on his coat. So, I closed the window again. That is something that might typically happen if you are not used to the difference between really yes, or yes, but actually no out of politeness.
It does not bother me too much, but it is quite typical. I just hope I am not creating issues with my lack of understanding.
Ahh, thanks for characterising this
No, they’re quite open, like the British
We’re you in Paris mayhaps?
I was actually in the Loire Valley on a holiday. It is quite touristy there, so I would expect them to be used to something.
I had only very friendly reactions to speaking okay French in Paris which goes against everything I expected. It happened multiple times that people spoke English to us and we answered in French because they forgot we were able to speak it but they obviously didn’t mean to be rude with it, much thr opposite. Maybe I just ran into some very foreigber friendly servers etc.
This was in the Loire Valley, not in Paris. This never happened to me in Paris. Maybe some cultural difference between different regions.
I know a lot of people have had similar experiences to yours, but mine was quite different. I was there in 2003 and 2006, so it’s been a while, but most everyone I spoke with was fine with my broken French. I only encountered two people who were outright rude, and they seemed to be rude to everyone, including other French people. During my first visit, I stuck to the touristy areas of Paris and Nice, but my second time was spent mostly in the countrysides of Provence. I ran into a lot of people who spoke no English, and they all seemed reasonably patient with my attempts at communication. The worst I ever got was people correcting my pronunciation and grammar, which I actually appreciated.
That sounds much better than my experience. Although I never had this issue in Paris either. It could also be that I was committing some faux pas without knowing it. Not sure.
I took classes at Alliance Francaise, and the teacher was from Normandy. She spent a lot of time talking to us about cultural differences and how to avoid (or minimize) giving offense inadvertently.
Maybe I should take such a class. I work at a university where many of my colleagues are from other countries, often out of Europe. I think it usually goes well. I try to be extra polite. But I think it also helps that people are aware of differences in background and try to mostly look at the intention of the other person. That is what I usually try to do also.
The correct legend for France is:
"Please don’t.
Also, don’t speak foreign. Especially not English."
“In fact, just don’t speak to me at all.”
Really should be a gradient ring around Paris tbf. Lovely welcoming Alsace and smelly dismissive Paris isn’t really a fair characterization at all.
This is why expats in the Netherlands never learn Dutch even after years of living there. I know of people who lived in Amsterdam for 10 years and still don’t know any Dutch beyond “Hoe gaat het? Één stroopwafel alsjeblieft” the worst thing is that their kids who have spent most of their lives in the Netherlands don’t speak a lick of Dutch either, because these elitists send their kids to international school.
I hate the term expat. It’s completely made up to not be grouped with the not white immigrants. It also goes with the condescending attitude of not really wanting to integrate with their new country, such as your international school and not learning the language examples.
I think it has its place. There is a clear difference between someone coming to a country for a limited time to do some specialized work with the intention of leaving, compared to someone who has little or no intention of ever returning to their country of origin. Both categories are incompareble in the type of support they need (or want), where they live, whether they need to learn the language, etc. Just ignoring the difference is a bit silly.
Although I agree the term is misused sometimes.
There is definitely a distinction between expatriate and immigrant, but I have very very rarely seen it used properly. As the previous poster wrote, it really does feel like the main difference between an expat and an immigrant, colloquially, is the color of skin.
expats
You mean immigrants?
Somewhere’s emmigrants
Lol what? In sweden for example i go to an international school because i dont speak swedish. And when i want to learn it they tell me that i cant attend the lessons because i cant speak swedish. When i try to speak to someone in swedish they notice that im making mistakes and automatically switch to english without even asking me. Its not the immigrants its the native speakers who have an attitude.
when i want to learn it they tell me that i cant attend the lessons because i cant speak swedish
What courses exactly? What’s your knowledge level? Because you won’t be able to join SAS (svenska som andraspråk) classes until you have a good basic comprehension from for example SFI (svenska för invandrare). Depending on your age, your town should have Komvux (adult education) classes for both SFI and SAS.
Or maybe some organisation offers a språkfika.
NotJustBikes moment
German here: There’s more than enough Germans who don’t master the language so please don’t torture my ears with your butchery, too.
You’re welcome.
I’ll stop trying to learn your shitty language when the Finanzamt start communicating in English. Deal?
Finanzamt does not speak German. It speaks Bürokratie.
Completely different language.
My experience with the german healthcare system begs to differ. Bürokratie ist Deutsch und Deutsch ist Bürokratie.
I spoke Spanish at a shop in Barcelona and they were not my friend.
Barcelona is the capital of Cataluña. Try a few words in Catalán next time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_movement
Coneixeu alguna comunitat catalana a Lemmy? Hi havia lemmy.cat però el servidor es va tancar fa una estona. He trobat https://info.prou.be/ però és l’únic que tinc la impressió
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That’s because you spoke Castilian, not Catalan.
Yeah Spain is brutal for that, catalan is the least friendly region pretty much anywhere in Europe but the rest of Spain you get the same rudeness for not knowing exactly what their special local custom or dislect is. Mostly from older women and loud men.
It’s funny because they have a lot of really laid back folk too, it’s very polar.
Germany might be like that in Berlin and to an expect in some other big cities, but in most of the country, das ist Deutschland, wir sprechen deutsch!!
Das Leben ist zu kurz um Deutsch zu lernen.
As a Belgian, I’m a bit annoyed with the lack of Dutch/French distinction, but at least they mentioned that on the side
How should I feel? We have four languages ffs
(Switzerland)
I feel like this goes for both sides though
As a german I can say this seems legit. I’d rather speak english to a non-native speaker than german, because most of the time it is hard to follow their speaking due to their faults in pronounciation and grammatics. Well, except when they speak german good (at least A2 or higher) or need it for their training.
Do you think this is because English is a more flexible language or simply because Germans are more exposed to English culturally?
I think a bit of both. English is definitely more flexible in terms of understandability as a second language for non-native english speakers. You can learn it relatively easy, unlike german (if you are not raised by german speaking folks). In the past we had a few TV programs that came unlocalized in german TV (Jackass, Beavis & Butthead, Celebrity Deathmatch). This exposed many of the younger people to english. The school system picked up english to the curriculum already in 1964. Back in my day (late 90s) we learned english since the 5th grade, today it seems to be third year primary school. Everyone learns english here, but too many people don’t bother anymore after school and practically unlearn it.
That’s really interesting. I’ve noticed quite a few German creators on YouTube and similar recently, there’s a much bigger market for english language videos so it makes sense they’d target it. I wonder how this will affect language learning, likewise the other way around with so many viral videos being in English.
Went to Turkey once and people seemed genuinely impressed when we attempted to speak Turkish. They also seemed impressed we were Americans. Almost all the other English-speaking tourists we met were older Brits, many of which acted pretty haughty. I guess they’re less used to Americans visiting. Turns out on the West Coast at least a large portion of Turks speak English
There’s a huge contingent of Brits who go to a place that’s sunny, reasonably close by, and relatively cheap and just stay on a gated resort for the entire week. I’ve had lengthy conversations about holidays with people before where it took a good while to discover that they saw literally none of the country they visited beyond the resort and the route between the resort and the airport
There’s a portion of the population doing the same in any country
Is the blue bit in Sweden near the Norwegian border a dialect area or a lake?
Lake
It’s Vänern, the largest lake in Sweden and the EU.
The thing with France is that their reaction is the same if you don’t speak French either.
