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Or even better, a fork of Firefox which disable all that telemetry crap and bundle with uBlock Origin : LibreWolf.
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but hardened firefox 😏
Shut up, you godless furry
This!
Godless furry bot: when
Is it as simple to use out of the box as Firefox or does it require some tinkering first?
No tinkering required, technically you could achieve the same result with regular Firefox + tinkering.
It’s as simple out of the box but with a greater focus on privacy with telemetry off and the pocket integration disabled.
Can confirm. Started using it yesterday after another comment. It’s pretty much plain FF, so works well right out of the gate. I enabled some features in the setting like Firefox sync and allow DRM media, but I’m really liking it.
I’ve found that it might not work on banking sites because of the fingerprinting protection. Be warned, if you try to use on banking sites, you may be locked out. I suggest you do all banking and stuff on a separate browser that saves cookies and tracks you.
I don’t use banking websites, I just use the app so can’t confirm. I would imagine it’ll be down to the default cookie blocking which you can edit in the settings though if it causes issues for you
My banks app is not as feature full as the website
I don’t have issue on my banking site but I’m not surprised, privacy settings tend to break some sites.
Sounds great! Thanks for the info 🙂
The new Mullvad browser is even better, and regularly maintained. But a little bit further down on the privacy end of the Spectrum and further from the useability end. Watch out for timezones, that one always gets me!
Mullvad has a browser now? Sweet! I’ve been a fan of their no nonsense approach to VPN for a while now.
Yeah it’s basically TOR browser without the TOR network. Created in direct collaboration with TOR.
LibreWolf is so clean and minimal, whenever I go back to Firefox it feels bloated in comparison.
Fr, people need to stop the lies that firefox itself is a privacy respecting browser, which it isnt- not since it was bought out years back.
LibreWolf and Mullvad are great examples of Firefox Forks that are ACTUALLY privacy focused browsers.
Bought out? Firefox was never bought out by anyone. What are you talking about?
My bad, bought out was the wrong way to word it- I should have said “Made partnerships with-” then listed Google and Yahoo(defunct), China and Russia.
If you watch this video discussing how privacy respect firefox is by default- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr8UFJzpNls you’ll see the telemetry they collect is miles long and Firefox is no better at protecting your privacy than Chrome/Chromium is whatsoever.
Definitely recommend Librewolf or Mullvad, which are actual privacy respecting browsers, even Chromium forks like Brave are better than default firefox.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=Fr8UFJzpNls
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Stumbled over that last week. There is a company where I buy nearly all my computer stuff from, and I’m a customer for more than 20 years.
I wanted to order parts for a high-end PC, but simply could not add the motherboard to the shopping cart. Everything else was already in there. I called them, and they asked me if I used Firefox. And they told me in no uncertain terms that Firefox was dead and would no longer be supported for “safety and security reasons”, I should use Chrome or Edge instead.
If their site is too stupid to cope with Firefox, why the heck does it not tell me about this upfront, e.g. when I try to enter an item into the shopping cart?
I’ve had a few websites tell me to view their website in Chrome. I just leave, because no way am I putting any kind of personal data into a website run by such incompetent people.
I used to be a web developer. Back 8 years ago, you used to have to do a lot of special tricks to make your website look and function the same in all the browsers. Now, you really don’t. Unless you’re using some really obscure closed source codec or something, websites literally render and function properly without needing any browser specific code fixes.
There’s no excuse, unless you’re blocking older versions of every browser for security reasons, which is fine, because browsers update automatically these days, and it’s very rare for someone to be running a really old version.
Usually the thing about the webpage not working is just codeword for “we have not tested it and we won’t”. If you really need to access it, there are some extensions that can change your user agent so the page thinks you are in chromium.
This is the one I use.
Chameleon is another good plugin for this
I use an user agent switcher in those cases. Most of the time it works and I dont have to change the browser.
This is not fully true. Recently I had problems with keyboard press event propagation working differently on button elements and CSS scroll snapping behaving differently when new items are appended in the scroll container. Both are not really obscure.
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While you are basically right with that, just imagine the computer shop where all the IT professionals go to get their stuff. I’m a customer there for more than 20 years because they are good. If there was any good alternative, I might be tempted to change, but so far I have not heard of such a thing.
That sucks.i am not going to not use Firefox, fuck chrome
Funnily enough, I can’t log into my bank on chrome, but Firefox works just fine.
LOL I work in IT for a rather large company and we are supposed to use FF because it’s actually more secure and is more reliable than chromium browsers.
I work at home in the health field and the only browser they have us use for everything is chrome. It makes me laugh honestly.
What’s the source for that claim? To my understanding, Firefox first got sandboxed processes for sites in 2021, and only recently this year got features to sandbox the GPU processes as well - playing catch-up by many years to Chrome, and exposing attack vectors for sites to gain access to OS-level API’s to meanwhile. And to my understanding, neither are enabled by default on Firefox for Android, because of ongoing compatibility issues for years https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1610822
My take is that Firefox or its’ derivatives are better for privacy, while Chromium is better for security, due to the vastly greater development resources.
I had issues with my banking app and a few other sites that use my personal government issued 2 factor auth…
But only in firefox.
Firefox rules, people need to smarten up. Hell, Firefox on Android has an Adblock extension. Firefox is what’s up.
Privacy is like the least important reason I use Firefox. With Microsoft Edge and Opera being based on Chromium now there are just so many of them. With Chromium essentially becoming the de facto standard because everyone uses it that means Google can ignore web standards and just do whatever they want.
It means Google can set the web standards, which is worse.
Competitors dont have to inherit those tho just because they are based on chromium.
It’s easier to inherit because it’s less dev time spent on a part of the browser that has less evident results for the consumer. I bet they’d rather spend money on the UX provided by UI changes rather than reworking the JavaScript engine, or anything related HTML or CSS rendering.
There’s no reason a Chromium fork can’t conform to other web standards.
Are they doing so right now?
Who is “they”?
Come on. You’re being pedantic.
…I’m not being pedantic at all. There are literally hundreds of them, each with their own programming.
What are the important reasons?
Everything else I said, sorry if that wasn’t clear!
Essentially there are organizations like W3C and IEEE that define standards for how the internet works and how websites behave. All browsers follow these so everything works properly. Let’s say you have some idea you want to add to your browser you develop. You do it and tell everyone about it. You don’t have many users. Maybe a few sites do it but it isn’t really a problem that it doesn’t work on other browsers because so few people do it.
Chromium has a massive market share because so many browsers use it as their base. Even Opera and Microsoft Edge which historically have been alternatives to Google Chrome now use Chromium as their base. The danger is that Chromium has such a large user base that they are essentially what the standard is.
As a quick aside, Chromium is the name for the open source base of Google Chrome. Chrome itself is technically not open source. This jus thust in case you or other readers haven’t seen that word.
Imagine a world where everyone uses Chromium. Why would you (if you were in charge of Chromium) need to listen to what standards organizations say about how the web should work? You’re literally in charge of every browser! You can just add some new features or take some out and every website would have to comply because you (in this hypothetical) truly do control every single web browser on the planet. Their websites would not work otherwise.
Sure, out of the goodness of your heart you might behave and be a good steward but there will always be reasons for you to act against the standards that you don’t view as “bad” that other people might think are bad. I’m not saying all standards organizations are perfect and good or anything like that, but I believe I trust them more than Google.
Even if Google never does anything “bad” (naive thinking lol) avoiding the situation where they have that kind of power is a good thing.
To me that’s the most important reason to use a non-Chromium based browser. To avoid Chromium becoming the one true browser.
And just for some context, Google has done bad things before with regards to web standards and then having the de facto standard with Chrome. The recent changes to the extension API to neuter ad blocking being a prime example. And we don’t even have to speculate and sound like nutjobs. They’re a public company. They’ve said before that ad-blocking is one of the biggest threats to their ad revenue. Not that it feels tin foil hatty to suggest even if they hadn’t said it, but they actually have said it in reports.
organizations like W3C and IEEE that define standards for how the internet works and how websites behave
Too bad those organizations kept dragging their feet, writing standards by committee and making them unimplementable, pushing stuff like XHTML that nobody in their sane mind wanted… until the WHATWG called quits on them and focused on a working living standard: a reference free open source browser that anyone could just copy+paste to meet the standard.
Nowadays we call that “Chromium”.
No actually we don’t. Chromium isn’t a reference implementation. And while XHTML was handled poorly the idea behind it was actually very interesting. Didn’t pan out and was buried years ago. So what.
Chromium isn’t a reference implementation
Could fool me, since it implements all WHATWG standards… or is it the other way around?
XHTML didn’t just “not pan out”; the W3C kept beating its dead horse carcass, like it did with many others. The W3C didn’t pan out and was handled poorly, even though the idea behind it was actually very interesting.
Why do you believe Google would not be able to ignore the WHATWG the same way they could ignore other standards organizations if they controlled the entire browser market?
Well, for starters the WHATWG listens to Google, not the other way around. And yeah, they do “control” the entire “browser market”, or more precisely, the part they care about: how to show ads.
Then you’re just agreeing but saying it’s already happened.
That’s one way of seeing it.
I don’t agree with the W3C or IEEE defining the standards anymore, or with Chromium becoming a “de facto” standard; the whole point of creating the WHATWG was to explicitly ditch the W3C, make Chromium into the basis for a living standard… and everyone clapped (except for some die hards who didn’t get the memo).
That it allows Google to destroy the open internet by changing the standards until non-Chromium browsers can’t engage with the web.
Oh yeah I fully get that. I think that’s very important too. The reason why I asked is because I thought there was a nifty feature I wasn’t aware of.
That it allows Google to destroy the open internet by changing the standards until non-Chromium browsers can’t engage with the web.
Im glad the websites have a saying in this. If google also owns these all then we are TRULY fucked.
Unfortunately, no, they don’t. As Chromium gets more and more wide spread, Google is gaining the power to change the browser standards. Websites will have to comply. If your website suddenly “Breaks” because Google won’t allow Chromium load any pages without tracking tags, users will complain to you and not google.
Yeah tech illiteracy is a thing thats true. Once they realize that its their browser that breaks their shit they will just pick a different one. Thats what i mean with google owning all the websites.
Good joke.
You know what happens if a customer complains your website doesn’t work in Chrome? A bug ticket is raised, goes to a developer and they fix the “bug” so it works again.
If the developer is good they’d also make sure their “fix” doesn’t break the website for Firefox and Safari. But there are plenty of developers who only test Chrome and call it a day.
Chrome is the default browser nowadays, if it doesn’t work in Chrome you have a problem. The developer might blame Google, but the user and management won’t care.
Thats fine. Because it means the websites are ok with what chrome is doing and it doesnt hurt them. No joke bro…
I don’t think they will. I think corporations - Who make decisions the same way soulless psychopaths would - will bend.
Using Chromium supports the destruction of the open internet.
unpopular opinion: chromium is a genuinely good thing for everyone involved. Just because chrome gets all the bitches and can dictate stuff doesnt mean chromium will break the competitions will to have their own programmers make their own fork.
websites not supporting firefox is the site’s fault, not the browser’s. firefox is not some niche browser. almost every website i have used is fine on firefox, and when it rarely doesnt work (usually bc i have a configured librewolf), i just open brave or whatever.
Im really confused by this sentiment. Ive been using Firefox since like 2007 and I was just a teenager who didn’t know any better.
Its been working fine for 16 years now.
Wait, people hate Firefox? Why??
“Firefox is bad because I got a virus one time and Firefox was my default browser therefore Firefox gave my computer a virus”- my brother
Chromium could be spying on you, as it communicates with google servers. You should use ungoogled-chromium, and hope they did a good job…
spoiler
or just use Firefox
Perhaps I’m missing something but I’ve been a Firefox user for years- at work and home. I have yet to find a website that misbehaves or under-performs. Mayyybe a few sites here and there a fractions of a second slower or have slightly less acceleration or something that I’m just not noticing?
Without Firefox and its ??forks?? like LibreWolf, the internet would be a total Chromium monopoly at this point, wouldn’t it? That would be bad…
If it really has to be a Chromium browser, Vivaldi will do the trick.
And if you REALLY take security seriously, LibreWolf is based on Firefox but without the annoying stuff from Mozilla attached to it.
Vivaldi a privacy respecting browser? It’s closed source and barely has any concern on the matter.
Nah, they have a big concern on that matter. Not collecting or selling your data is one of their main selling points lol. Also, while not completely open source, the main changes they do to the chromium base is open for everyone
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I personally trust Vivaldi because they haven’t slipped up once so far. Besides the open source dispute, it’s easily the least controversial company.
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Not a fan of Vivaldi either but it’s not closed source. https://vivaldi.com/source/
Though the source code doesn’t even get a link on their website so I can see why people think that.
Edit: I was wrong, there’s closed source parts (the UI).
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Isn’t Chromium already ungoogled and Chrome is the googled browser?
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Chromium has a lot of google stuff that’s just open source. Chrome, the google browser, adds on top of that OSS google stuff proprietary google stuff.
In this context when I say “google stuff” I mean “things google uses to track you or otherwise pipeline you to google products”
You are fooling yourself if you think you can really “ungoogle” chromium.
How so? What’s wrong with Ungoogled Chromium (besides it being Chromium)?
They won’t respond because they just want you to use Firefox instead
I already use Firefox. I’m just confused as to what’s wrong with Ungoogled Chromium. ~Cherri
There’s really nothing wrong with it. The only thing that Firefox enthusiasts are concerned about is that you contribute to the Chromium monopoly by using Ungoogled Chromium.
I really like Vivaldi for its tab tiling. Super useful.
Librewolf*
You and I, we are same
Also me. Mull + Librewolf combo, portmaster and etc/hosts to block adware, malware and nsfw. I feel free.
And a pihole for the other people on my network who can’t quite let go of some apps and services.
After a weekend where the whole family was there, my pihole displayed that 57% of all connections where blocked.
57%
No one complained about anything not working.
57% of all connections were completely and utterly unnecessary to the actual services that were being used.
That is just wild.
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For daily usage, and as long as you use uBlock Origin, Firefox has been perfect for me for the past 10 years. I don’t understand those who complain about it.
A lot of fanboys are just gonna irrationally hate competitors. Star Wars vs. Star Trek and all that.
To my knowledge the Chrome is the worse memory hog
Worse than Chrome? By how much? I use both browsers on multiple devices on multiple OSes and neither of them are even remotely lightweight.
chrome uses less base ram but more ram per tab i think
I think it’s basically a wash. Anyone that says that one is particularly better or worse than the other is not being honest.
Chrome? Sure.
Vivaldi uses about half the RAM of FF when I have equivalent tabs open and running/idling.
Of course I have to have an ad blocker installed on FF whereas Vivaldi just does it natively, so that might be causing the difference in memory.
Here come all the anti chromium bois with "tHeReS nO wAy vivALdi bLoCkS aDs aS gOoD as u BlOcK oRiGin!‘’
To that I say… Have you ever fucking tried it? Lol I’ve tried both side by side, don’t argue unless you’ve actually done so as well. V’s ad blocking didn’t break when Manifest V3 dropped and until it stops being as good or better than UBO I’m just gonna keep using it. When that day happens, well like I said I’ve already got FF up and running anyways.
All of them are memory hungry, the point is how dynamic they are in their “hunger” and “excretion”.
Does the 34 and 20 represent the number of tabs? If so, this is not a fair comparison, what with FF having 50% more open. But even if that number doesn’t represent tabs, I am sure there can be websites that would put them much closer in performance.
Right now I have Chrome on my work machine. It has a 14 (again, not sure if those are active tabs or not) and it is eating 1.17 GB on my work machine. On my home FF (24) is eating 1.60 GB of RAM. FF is clearly using more RAM in each case, but it isn’t slowing my desktop down any more than Chrome is on my work machine. I’d like for it to improve, but rather use something other than Google’s tools on every single machine I use, I guess.
The number in parentheses is the number of processes that the application is performing. Win’s task manager groups these under the parent app so you don’t have to scroll through every “sub” in order to end a task. if you hit the “>” to the left of the app it will give you the expanded view and you will see the list.
Does the 34 and 20 represent the number of tabs?
Yes, more or less. I think some other extensions can take up processes too.
I actually have enough RAM and I’m glad that the RAM is being used to load all the stuff instead of the pagefile. It’s my fault that I’m not closing stuff, not the browser’s for not guessing what I’m going to re-load.
If you ask people, I think they’ll just say that their main browser is like that. And that’ll apply to all of them, so it’s a user problem.
I remember these talks from a very long time ago. Very long time, when Opera had its own engine and before. I think the gaps have shrunk a lot, especially now that Internet Exploder is gone.
I’ve been maining Firefox for over a year now and this has been the case for me as well - it’s such a resource hog. Which is fine, I’ve dealt with it, but I wish it didn’t use so much battery life.
For some reason, upload speeds to YouTube are atrocious. And if you read through the ticket about this issue, it’s not Google slowing it down artificially, but an actual Firefox issue. I have to resort to using Vivaldi as my dedicated upload browser.
That, and they have a weird drive to make their UI shittier and shittier. Introducing tons of whitespace, turning tabs into buttons, removing compact layout…
I have 15 extensions running on my 8GB work laptop and there is little to no difference from my 16GB PC battle station at home. And I have like 4 more apps run alongside 10 tabs of FF at work, way more than what I would ever open at home
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Of course your job would be even easier if there was only one engine left. Comparing it to what we had in the IE era though is completely bonkers.
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Yeah, I’m also a web developer and this person is completely up their own ass. We’ve all struggled with browsers that lag behind standards (internet explorer) or implement them in weird ways (safari). But Mozilla has never even come close to being a problem like the others.
Also I doubt they are using the newest of new web standards that would actually need to be poly filled and even then with modern JS build tooling poly filling isn’t difficult or abnormal. Oh, the bundle for your crappy SPA might be a few kb bigger but that isn’t gonna make a difference.
To name a big one: the CSS :has() pseudo-class.
How is this still not enabled by default?
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Side panel, workspaces, tab-stacking, just to name a few.
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“What major standard features is Firefox missing these days?”
This was your question, nowhere did you say anything about web API’s. You stupid or just forget which comment I was responding to?
Sure FF has extensions that “kinda do the same thing” except they’re shit and bloat the browser beyond what it already is compared to Vivaldi.
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God, I wish there was less monopolies in the world, I hate when there is no alternative other than a product developed and maintained by evil corporation that profits off of selling my data.
Anyway, the only browser that everyone should use is Chrome, if you don’t use Chrome you’re dead to me.Buddy we have something called suckless you know, USE FUCKING SURF
I use firefox for obvious privacy reasons but also because I can customize the UI. Chromium’s interface is oversized, ugly, and locked down while on firefox I can change any aspect of it using my own CSS.
