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- cross-posted to:
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“They were attacking my faith. It bothered me to the core,” said Sara, a Southern Baptist who identifies as pro-life. “Because I had never viewed [IVF] as wrong, as anything other than beautiful and bringing another life into the world. … I’ve actually had a lot of friends pray for me and encourage me and help me along in the process.”
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Did they not realize that the womens rights that the left have fought for also included conservative women?
“I never thought the leapords would eat MY face” says member of the Leapords Eating Peoples Faces party
I’m one of the good ones!
The only moral abortion is my abortion!
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Adding oneself to the considerations for bad things happening is an acquired trait.
So many bad drivers despite car accidents being a leading cause of death proves that we suck at calculating risk assessment.
“Because I had never viewed [IVF] as wrong…” is not a justification. I rarely swear, but from the bottom of my heart fuck the people of any religion or political ideology who believe they have some special pipeline to absolute truth. And an extra helping if they believe that gives them the right to legislate their beliefs onto everyone else.
Honestly I don’t think one can be against abortion and for IVF without doing a whole bunch of mental gymnastics.
How can you ban “aborting” embryos that are in the womb but support IVF which results in way more “aborted” embryos.
It’s either be against both or support both.
How can you ban “aborting” embryos that are in the womb but support IVF which results in way more “aborted” embryos.
The exact way they are doing here: insist that they’re somehow different and avoid thinking about the logical result of their beliefs in order to escape cognitive dissonance.
You may be overestimating how familiar they are with the specifics of IVF. It could be perceived as simply as “IVF means more babies, which is good, because I want babies. But abortion means less babies, which is bad.”
If those people like that perception, they will resist or deny any further detail that would jeopardize those perceptions to remain willfully ignorant, especially if they have utilized IVF themselves. The cognitive dissonance would be too strong otherwise.
Feels like an old variant on the trolley problem.
I’d guess their view is something like, with an abortion, if you don’t, there’s a baby, but with an unimplanted embryo, if you do nothing there’s no baby. Essentially absolving people for not taking an action, even though the outcome is the same as those they condemn when an action is taken in a similar situation. But it’s also weird and telling how they’re now arguing that just having more babies be born is some kind of implicit positive.
They don’t see mental gymnastics as a problem in my experience. They make all these rules for how everyone should live and then naturally it sucks if you actually comply 100%, so they find ways to make the things they want ok (usually only for them though). They want babies, so actually it’s totally fine to dispose of unused embryos. See also: modesty standards, gender roles, social programs, and so on.
I’ve always thought christian/catholic doctrine, if it really takes each potential life seriously, should require everyone to constantly procreate with anyone and everyone in order to instantiate each potential life.
One of the fascinating aspects of modern politics is how rapidly the malice shifts. It has to, given the rapid advances science offers to society. 20 years ago, IVF, abortion, and contraceptives were very visibly on the chopping block due to republicans… republicanning. Nowadays they’re broadly accepted.
The accelerating shifts in social pressures have created a sort of compartmentalization of bigotry in new voters while older voters hate just the same as they ever have, plus a few new things they picked up along the way. Tom Parker, 72, fulfilled one aspect of his ancient bigotry. Despite everyone talking about it constantly, the new bigots barely recognize the old bigots for what they are. It’d be more interesting if their actions weren’t killing people.
These are the very same people who also get abortions but insist that their circumstances are somehow different.
This can be reposted a thousand times and it would never be too much
One of the greatest blog posts of all time.
This highlights how little empathy people have for others
how little empathy people have for others
And these are usually the very same people who consider themselves “good Christians”.
To say they’re unclear on the concept would be an understatement.
That exists? Eugh.
You can’t believe that a fertilized egg is a human being and also do IVF. Because typically 15 harvested eggs will lead to 12 fertilized eggs will end up with a few viable eggs which will end up with one pregnancy (if you’re lucky). That’s 11 murdered “children” by their definition.
They want to have their cake and eat it too.
Man wait till they learn about masturbation…
Dude shut the fuck up… seriously… don’t give them ideas lol! Pry this dick from my cold dead sticky hands
Why do you think all these porn bans are being passed into law?
Hard “it effects me, so now it’s a problem.” energy here
The “I never thought they’d come for me” crowd appears to have fucked around and, subsequently, found out.
How much of that innuendo was intentional?
Just the tip
I felt that
Too bad these conservative Christian women will be flatly ignored by the conservative Christian men in charge:
1 Timothy 2
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
At my last job, my manager was a conservative white Karen. She invited my wife and I over for dinner, and I’m guessing he was not prepared for me to be a person of color in a mixed marriage. And the dude has some real conservative opinions that she agreed with half the time, and the other half, clearly looked uncomfortable and refused to confront it.
Where my wife and I go at it all the time with conflicting views and find a middle ground.
And it makes me wonder why more conservative women aren’t being more Karen-like against their husband. I mean, I know why, but still.
And it makes me wonder why more conservative women aren’t being more Karen-like against their husband.
Commodification of relationships means rich people are always in a buyer’s market. If you’re not subservient to your boyfriend’s every whim, some other more committed social climbers will be.
Leopard eating faces?
Say it ain’t so!
and then they came for me…
How long until they realize they can’t square the circle of being pro IVF and still believe life begins and conception?
I guess being consistent was never a worry for conservatives in the first place anyway.
It doesn’t seem that inconsistent to me. Natural pregnancy often ends in spontaneous abortion (usually before the woman knows that she’s pregnant) but pro-life people aren’t against getting pregnant. I suppose that as long as the goal is to have a child, God makes sure no souls are harmed.
There’s no getting around the fact that IVF ends with discarding some embryos.
And if you think life begins at conception, that’s murder.
Edit: Just read this in a NYT article:
More than 120 Republican members of the House of Representatives have signed on as co-sponsors of the Life at Conception Act. Among them is their leader, Speaker Mike Johnson, an evangelical Christian who has called abortion “an American holocaust.” The bill provides that “the terms ‘human person’ and ‘human being’ include each and every member of the species homo sapiens at all stages of life, including the moment of fertilization, cloning or other moment at which an individual member of the human species comes into being.”
That’s ironclad. You CANNOT support both IVF and believe life begins at conception.
Life begins at conception or it doesn’t. There is no IVF without murder if life begins at conception.
That’s just your perspective. There are plenty beleif systems allowing “souls” to check on their physical bodies but not actual reside permanently till up to 4 years old. So yea that’s is your opinion of life based on your definition of life contingent to a concept of a permanent soul.
Ah ok so abortions until the child is 4 are ok? Great!
Can I get an 18?
Wait, so God can make sure no souls are harmed??? So why doesn’t he just always do that regardless if it’s an abortion or not? Instead he’s actively picking and choosing which child’s soul is harmed and which isn’t?? What an abhorrent monster your God is.
Well, God has to draw the line somewhere. It would be weird if people who were going to live tragically short lives were instead born as soulless husks. The pro-life Christians defending IVF presumably think he draws the line at successful implantation.
(Also, can people not tell by my tone that I’m an atheist?)
It doesn’t matter what you are. What matters is your argument / logic. And it’s no bueno.
God most certainly doesn’t make sure souls are not harned. Fuck that God.
If it’s God’s will the woman who didn’t want to be pregnant got pregnant, then it’s also God’s will the one who wanted to get pregnant couldn’t.
“When we supported the face eating leopards to eat peoples’ faces, we didn’t think it would be our faces!”
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The stance is “Making more white babies is good” / “Making more rich babies is good”.
IVF is outrageously expensive. It’s exclusively for the segment of the population that’s got $50k to spend up front on having a kid.
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Until a cop shoots a pregnant woman in the stomach or an ICE agent shoves a pregnant woman onto the ground or an IDF soldier runs over a wounded pregnant woman with a bulldozer
The problem isn’t with fertilized eggs nearly so much as who qualifies as a “person”.
Exactly this. Suddenly this super important thing won’t be so super important.
Either:
Embryos are people and they should never be destroyed, so IVF and abortion should be illegal.
OR
Embryos are not people and your right to choose what happens to your body is paramount. Therefore, abortions and IVF should be legal.
Which is it?
Neither. IVF is just like abortion…when they do it, it’s OK because they had a good reason. When someone else does it, it’s because they’re going against God’s will and deserve to be judged by both their neighbors and the government.
Evangelicals are adopting catholic church positions in order to fuel their need for conflict and culture war except unlike the catholic church they have not sifted through the ramifications of their adopted positions so you end up with courts ruling IVF is illegal because its an obvious fallout of “embryos are people” but conservatives never think that far ahead (if they did they wouldn’t oppose education or abortion so heavily especially given the effects it will have on our economy and crime)
You assume these morons even know how IVF works.
So it is almost like those women have a right to do what they want to do to their bodies.
It’s a great way to get pregnant without having sex!
