21 day old account. Most posts are about not voting in the election to support Palestine. While what’s happening in Gaza is genocide, this account smells like a Russian shill trying to spread FUD in the form of memes. The key part of diplomacy is not running around telling everyone what’s being discussed in private. We shouldn’t hear about potential deals until they are decided on. If Trump wins, he’ll do the same thing Israel is currently doing to eliminate Hamas - which is to go through the Palestinian people.
After you wrote this comment, OP made a concern troll post on the Men’s Liberation community.
You were totally on point about the FUD thing.
Yeah… I’m only surprised that they shifted tactics so quickly. Fear, Unrest, and Doubt are the key tactics in Russian Disinfo campaigns. There’s an old axiom: If someone is trying to make you feel strongly about something, then they are trying to sell you something. In this case, OP Is trying to piss people off in order to convince them of propaganda and Russian talking points.
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it says don’t JUST vote. that means vote and then do more. your accusation of shilling is disgusting.
Calling others shill is like the go-to accusation these days
its a cointelpro tactic commonly called “badjacketing”. i don’t know why it’s tolerated on lemmy when it can so easily be stamped out.
Do you really expect the people who call everybody they disagree with a shill to be able to read?
I didn’t write it for them. I wrote it for anyone who might think their drive-by had weight
No but in this case it is correct.
If Biden listens more then does popular things, the effect won’t be in Putin’s interest. Just saying.
Biden needs to pull voters from Trump.
There are two types of Democrat voters today. Those who will suck it up and vote for him because he’s not trump, and those who will find some excuse to not vote for him because he’s not perfect. If he does the right thing for Palestine, they’ll complain it wasn’t fast enough, or they’ll complain about his stance on marijuana, or on the environment, or on some other random thing.
“Not perfect” uhh that’s incredibly hyperbolic. A piece of cheese could do just as well as Biden has as president. He’s appealed to the right and the banks far more than to the left at a time when issues like those you mentioned desperately need to be addressed ASAP. He’s made little strides in the right direction but if you look deeply into any of his policies they’re more posturing than anything. I’ve said it here before but in a reasonable world he’d be running as a Republican. The left can and should disown him given his history, connections and actions.
Biden is a republican.
He’s a Democrat, thus more than 50% Republican.
No he’s not
‘not perfect’ is a big leap from ‘also evil as fuck’, which is what he is.
Lesser of two evils. And unfortunately, you have to pick one.
yeah by all means, choose one.
but you know its not a choice right? its not like this meme is wrong per se
You are misunderstanding online discussions. Critiques of Biden’s stances on issues like marijuana, comes from a place of trying to help Biden win. Only trolls would claim they stopped voting for Democrats because they didn’t legalize weed. “As a gay black man” type posters.
Genocide is different. Blaming progressive voters because they refuse to arm a genocide is a twisted thing to do. And people online need to realize how they are only making things worse with this genocide complicity.
Critiques of Biden’s stances… comes from a place of trying to help Biden win.
I really wish this was true, it feels like every time I try to be charitable I end up getting burned.
And heaven knows Biden needs to be criticized, because even a ton of Democrats are getting righteously pissed off at him. If we have another 2016 situation, I think the backlash to him would be more justified than the backlash to Hillary Clinton’s pathetic campaigning, at least before we all got annihilated by a nuclear bomb or executed by a gang of blackshirts sent out by Trump’s executive order 66.
Especially because it was implicit that Biden would step down and did not pursue a second term, gracefully abdicating the position to somebody, almost anybody else.
“As a gay black man” type posters
So yall have been alienating gay black men from lemmy? wtf?
He’s buddies with Netanyahu and IIUC moved the embassy to Jerusalem.
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Yes yes, genocide is super bad. Totally agree.
If you could point me to a candidate with a realistic chance to win that has no genocide, I’m happy to vote for them. But last I checked we were in the United States which has first past the post voting, so we don’t get that option. We don’t vote FOR candidates, we vote AGAINST the ones we like least.
I would be thrilled if I was somehow wrong, and would love for you to help me understand.
Congress and Republicans will limit or regress (see Roe ) any improvements by the population. The system was set up to limit the power of the people.
The reality is that only a consistent strong social movement can influence the ruling powers. They know this. So with media and consumerism, they have created a Controlled Opposition, with the illusion of concessions. There is a reason wealth inequality is worse than the gilded age of the robber barons, but there are no revolts.
Our society is too polarized and fragmented to effect real change. Voting for Biden is like using buckets 🪣 of water to keep the boat afloat. We’re still sinking.
It will take a catalyst. An economic crash, natural disaster, another pandemic, etc. to provide the space for mobilization to effect change through organization. Everyone is sleeping on the climate crisis and the droughts, food shortages and mass migration that will eventually cause global destabilization. That’s why inflation is here to stay and the rich are building bunkers. They know the jig is up and are planning accordingly.
Vote for the lesser evil, or don’t, it won’t stop the boat from sinking. I would love to be wrong; I hope I am.
So you think that has a realistic chance of happening before November?
no, it should have been happening already.
the second best time to organize is now.
Sure, trump has never genocided anybody. Im not saying hes not trash, but, no genocide.
He’s only promised to turn this country into a dictatorship…
I mean you can be happy you STUCK TO THE MAN with your last chance to vote in your lifetime.
But he hey you win!
Yes, at this point I very likely wont vote for Biden regardless. 6 months of unabashedly aiding a genocide is a bridge too far, even if he stops now. It wont be “some random thing”, itll be the only thing that actually matters. I will suck it up and vote for Trump, because even though I hate him, he has less in common with Hitler than Biden does, at this point.
Trump is objectively worse on Palestine, as impossible as that seems. Look at his proposed solution of Palestine in the Abraham Accords. I’ll begrudgingly vote Biden in the National but I’ll certainly vote against him in the Primary. I think now is absolutely the time to demand the US stop our funding and international defence of this genocide.
The state of this national election right now is basically, ‘you can vote for the candidate supporting genocide, or the candidate that will continue to support genocide and do domestic fascism’ what a joke of an election, it’s never been more clear imo that the US is far from a genuine democracy
Oof, fuck around and find out. Trump is Hitler and is following his game plan 100%.
If Trump wins, you won’t have to worry about voting again, Trump has literally said that he intends to go full on dictatorship…
If Trump wins, he’ll do the same thing Israel is currently doing to eliminate Hamas - which is to go through the Palestinian people.
You mean… the same thing that is happening right now under a Dem regime?
Say it isn’t so!
He’ll also take your right to vote away forever… So I mean it won’t matter anymore…
He’ll also take your right to vote away forever…
Will he now? So why didn’t Great Orange Hope do that the first time around? Or are you too caught up in liberal histrionics to think critically about any of this?
What the fuck do you think the insurrection and trying to fake the electoral votes was about?
He didn’t try hard enough, he won’t make that mistake again if reelected. This time he’ll take power outright. Putin style.
If anything the “liberals” are way underestimating the danger here. Many have some delusion that this is just “normal” old school politics. This is very different.
What the fuck do you think the insurrection
LOL! Are you still calling that an insurrection? Maybe you should leave the US for awhile - come here to the 3rd world. We’ll show you what insurrections and coups really look like. Go ask the CIA boys over in Langley - they’ll tell you. They might also tell you that Trump isn’t doing anything “insurrection-ey” in the US without their help. Good luck getting them to be honest about it, though - they prefer you getting your misinformation from hysterical lib media.
He didn’t try hard enough, he won’t make that mistake again
And where will this competence - which so thoroughly evaded Trump the first time around - come from all of a sudden, pray tell? Trump is so damn incompetent he cannot even stop himself from pissing off the military which - if you were to think critically for a second - is basic stuff for wannabe dictators.
Trump is not a fascist - he cosplays as one for the baying little alt-right mob that he spurned the moment he waddled into the Waffle House to do what all US presidents do… serve the interests of the capitalist class in the US. And he will do the exact same thing the second time around.
God forbid somebody care about something on the internet! Dont they know its uncool to give a shit about anything?
I voted Uncommitted, if not voting for a genocider is really gonna get Trump elected maybe Biden should start listening to someone other than the demonic Beau Biden lookalikes running around the oval office.
I’m glad you voted your heart in the primary. But I also really hope you are smart enough to vote him in the general.
I hope he is smart enough to vote against a genocider. Some of us hold our values more formly than others, I suppose. I promised my mom Id never vote for a genocider.
Vote your values! It’ll be the last time you’ll get to if Trump gets elected. But I mean you’ll have shown Biden something! Right?
Have you heard the below by any chance?
FUCK around and find out…
Cutting off your nose to spite your face…
Out of the frying pan and into the fire…
Why didn’t he do it the first time then? And yes, I understand Fuck around and Find out. This is the Dems finding out.
she/her tyyy
Ah, sorry.
That really depends on if the Democrats are actually ride or die on this whole genocide thing.
Democrats are more likely to waver on the Palestinian genocide then the Republicans. But even assuming that they have the exact same positions, Republicans still have measurably worse positions on pretty much everything else.
I enjoy enough privilege to not be troubled by Republican policies, but many of my comrades do not enjoy that same privilege. I vote on their behalf too.
Republicans are worse on everything else, but at least when they’re running things into the ground democrats are actually motivated to take action- as opposed to when its their guy doing it and they all act like their shit doesn’t stink.
Biden eliminated all the supports + eviction protections from covid. If Trump was trying to “end COVID” with 9/11s of deaths happening every month do you really think the Democrats would just be going along with it?
You aren’t explicitly saying a Trump presidency would be better for America, but do you understand that most people will take your comment to mean that?
Edit: … And that’s what she meant.
I actually use she/her pronouns ty
Most people are so into the team sports that anything critical of team blue is treated like a religious heresy.
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I hope that Biden stops trying to send funds and weapons to Israel then, and pulls those ships from the red sea.
Your post history is 100% “Democrats bad,” so if anything, this post is an exception and not the rule. I can ignore the bit about Russia and their point stands even stronger.
I simply reply to the sentiment I see on this platform. If it was pro-Trump I would critique that.
Then either you aren’t looking, or you just don’t want to see.
Can you give me an example of a pro-Trump post that was recently in top? i see a couple right now against Trump.
I reject this goalpost shift.
I was responding to “the sentiment I see on this platform” because I don’t have to look far to see people engaging in bothsides-ist rhetoric. That shit always favors the worse side.
For example: Here’s somebody who believes America should have remained neutral in World War II.
lol in what world is that ‘top’, it’s a heavily downvoted thread inside a centrist cj post
its not a goalpost shift, you claimed they werent seeing pro trump posts, and they asked for evidence. It is a fact that the platform as a whole is extremely anti trump.
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I don’t get this meme.
Do both, vote for the lesser evil and demand change by protesting. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts. You are definitely not going to get change by not voting, all you are doing is allowing the more evil to win and prevent you from protesting ever again.
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I said that.
Biden can solely stop the arming of israel by declaring they are committing human rights violations which would prevent arms exports.
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I don’t see how you’re having trouble understanding that anti-genocide rhetoric can also come from the left. I would actually wager that the majority of genuine critiques surrounding the Biden administration’s support of genocide would not be from Republicans, since most of those fascists love the idea of killing natives in the name of forming a white ethnostate.
I doubt there are many Trump supporters who want to eliminate the existence of trans/minorities while also saying “FREE PALESTINE” on random lemmy posts lmfao.
I guess you could take the position that they’re not genuine critiques, that every critique of Biden is a false flag Trump supporter or direct KGB agent from Russia, because who in their right mind would actually give a fuck about a genocide happening to others. They’re not American, so fuck them right?
If that last paragraph resonates with you, then I’d ask you to consider who in this conversation is actually the close-minded bigot. If it doesn’t, then you have to recognize that there are genuine, valid critiques of Biden coming from the left, and it’s hard to stomach the idea of going out and openly supporting a president in favor of furthering Israel’s genocidal campaign.
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There are too damn many leftists saying Assad is a good person
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Who is the current president right now, Donald Trump?
Is Donald Trump going to stop Joe Biden being complicit in Genocide?
And what you’re saying is not even true I have plenty criticized Republicans.
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Yes people that can see that Biden is the one complicit in Genocide.
It’s like DNC voters have turned into the 2016 MAGA cult, purely voting for Biden no matter what he does.
Biden is supposed to not be the Fascist Genocide guy.
That guy is probably a bot
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According to my calculations, Joe Manchin is President and consistently tells Biden what he’s allowed to do
You don’t get it because you thought about it. This account seems to a mis/disinformation account. Remember to call out and report these accounts.
In their moral justification, the argument of the lesser evil has played a prominent role. If you are confronted with two evils, the argument runs, it is your duty to opt for the lesser one, whereas it is irresponsible to refuse to choose altogether. Its weakness has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget quickly that they chose evil.
Hannah Arendt
Sadly this doesn’t take into account a two party voting system, and is completely wrong. They know they chose evil.
The weakness is Americans sitting on their ass, never peotesting.
Sorry if I don’t trust a keyboard warrior over one of the most influential political theorists of the 20th century.
Nobody asked for “trust”. Just try to take a second to understand what the two party system is or even how the german system works. Keep cherry-picking info like you live in nazi germany, that just makes it easy to see you have no idea what you’re talking about and are repeating popular (trash) arguments lmao
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Did you just try to insult me for being on lemmy… on lemmy?
You have no way of knowing who I am or what I have published, you’re just making stuff up cherry-picking info that “makes sense to you”.
Two things. Influential does not necessarily mean correct. Second, your use of it is not correct regardless. While I would agree with her in general. Your depiction of the situation is a bit of a hyperbolic caricature. And not the reality of the situation.
We would all, myself included, do well to remember not to alienate those with whom we actually agree a lot with. Change comes with building coalitions and gaining allies. Not virtue signaling, or pyrrhic dogmatic victories.
So people need to accept the protest votes here in the primary. But those protest voting now need to be ready to do everything they can to make sure trump and the Republicans don’t win come November. Because anyone who feels virtue signaling is worth more than the extra suffering Republicans absolutely will cause. Isn’t much better than the Republicans themselves. As an unattributed philosopher once said. All it takes for evil to triumph is for a good men to do nothing.
Well that is kinda what the post is about. You can do both, the meme says don’t JUST vote.
There are two arguments I personally find persuasive. First, are you okay with having voted for a candidate that knowingly supported a genocide with words and with weapons (because it looks more and more like this is / will be the case). Second, what other leverage do you have over the Democratic party. Let them know that they can not win with such a historically shitty candidate, lick your wounds and try again next election.
And if you think Trump is literally Hitler, please do some research and look up what happened after Germany voted for the lesser of two evils (Hindenburg).
what other leverage do you have over the Democratic party.
Voting is but one of many political actions you can take, and is therefore better considered as a small part of a larger political strategy. The best strategy for a leftist in this election is to vote uncommitted in the primaries and for Biden in the general - to send a message to the Dems while also staving off a more rapid decline to neofascism - while spending most of your time and energy engaging in direct action (i.e. protests).
And if you think Trump is literally Hitler, please do some research and look up what happened after Germany voted for the lesser of two evils (Hindenburg).
If I were in Germany in 1932 I would probably have voted for Ernst Thälmann, but the German electoral system is not the US electoral system. We have no 3rd option, and that is not something that can be addressed either by voting or abstaining. To address this will require direct action.
I am NOT ok with Biden. I’m going to vote for him anyway, because in the next term he will be less bad for Gaza than Trump would be. Even taking into account Biden’s current genocide.
Biden makes Trump the VP and dies a year later? I don’t get how that applies.
That’s the point, it doesn’t.
you are a shelter of sanity in a sea of cultists.
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The far-left absolutely makes sense, without suspending reality. You must be thinking of the right wing.
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No he is running the Knesset
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And that’s why I wont vote lmao.
You misspelled “that’s why I’m giving my vote to trump” ( that’s what not voting does)
“Either you’re with us or with fascism”, they say, every 5 fucking years.
Nah, he’s not voting for Trump which is the same as voting for Biden
That is specifically why people bang on about this. It’s counterintuitive but it’s literally not like you put it.
Whichever side you want, not participating in voting gives you the best chances of ending up with the person you want the least to be in office. It’s not a biden or trump thing. This is why voting matters.
Actually not voting is a vote for Biden, because I was going to vote Uncommitted, which I’ve been told was a vote for Trump
Except that the lesser evil takes your vote as explicit support of everything they’re doing, and will claim it as a clear mandate, we’d like to stop but our hands are tied the voters wanted this.
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What choice?
Choosing between ketchup or mustard on your shit sandwich does you no good, if you don’t want a shit sandwich in the first place.
If you’re not giving me a no-shit-sandwich option, why the hell should I reward you with my support?
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Yeah that is another way. The wrong one.
It might be incorrect, because they don’t know your motives, but that’s the whole point of voting - showing your motives. In a voting democracy abstinence is begrudging consent to either candidate. The two party system forces this reality.
George Carlin is dead, and I would probably laugh my ass off at the jokes he would make if he knew people were treating him like some kind of prophet.
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100k people just voted uncommitted against Biden in the Michigan primary, I think they are getting the message
Start putting some pressure on Biden so he will work for that vote. He still has a few months of Genocide to go before the election.
… and how?
Physically stopping weapon supply. Blockading transport lines.
What you actually mean is telling people on social media to do those things so you can feel like you’re doing something without actually doing anything.
The left at this point is just a meme.
You don’t know me and what I do in my spare time.
Cool story.
Where can I join you doing this?
Yeah, if we’re organizing, where are we organizing at?
Mutual aid is good and all, but it doesn’t change squat for policy
Are you seriously asking or was making a satirical comment? Because we can seriously talk about organizing protests. Maybe make a new community for this.
I’m serious, put your actions where your meme is.
Awesome, we can maybe use [email protected] community for organizing?
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: [email protected]
You first 👉👈
Throw American allies under the bus in their time of need? Iran approves.
lol their 'time of need" as they are actively genociding their way though Gaza. Those ‘allies’ can’t end up under the bus fast enough
What American alies? Israel?
American ally
Is committing a genocide
Checks out
