It is however easier to explain to people that those in power do not have popular support if there are less people that voted for them.
I am not saying it is a good idea, but I am trying to say that this goes both ways. As some user previously said, voting for lesser of two evils and voting for absolute support is also indistinguishable.
I don’t really understand. Suppose democracy as we know it is dismantled and we have an autocratic supreme leader eternal… will it be helpful to “explain to people that those in power do not have popular support”
voting for lesser of two evils and voting for absolute support is also indistinguishable.
This is also a flawed premise, as though casting a vote is supposed to be an expression of your self and your personal desires on path to utopia… it’s not. You’re voting for which asshole you want to be POTUS. That’s it. There is no lesser of two evils or tepid support or partial agreement. Do you want Chocolate, or do you want Strawberry.
You will have an autocratic supreme leader because its the logical conclusion of liberalism.
Do you want Chocolate, or do you want Strawberry.
More like do you want shit or cyanide. How graceful are we to give you the choice. If you don’t like any of those option you’ll have cyanide. No this is not blackmail /s
EDIT: ok my apologies, it was over the line. I’m sorry. I’m not here to flame. I’m pointing out you cannot get mad on people for not accepting any of the two options you give them, even if one of them is better than the other. That’s pretty much victim blaming/blackmail. “Either you vote for us or you deserve what the fascists are going to do to you”.
If it was an exceptional situation, I would understand, but it’s pretty much ingrained into the system at this point. It’s like that every four years. Being the lesser of two evil can only works so long. At the end of the day, it’s your responsibility not to be evil at all, otherwise do not complain people aren’t voting for you. You are letting the fascists win, not us
Well, to be fair, 1/2 of a two party system abandoning democracy is an exceptional situation… even if it was easy to see coming. I’m probably a bit older than most people on here, but this really has only been an issue since electing a POC broke the Republican Party. That was 16 years ago. We’ve had 4 presidential elections since then, and the last 3 of those have involved Trump, who is uniquely awful due to the cult-like behavior of his devotees.
I fully support folks voting for the best option during the primaries and at the local level…in fact, starting local is, I believe, the only way we’ll ever break the current duopoly. But if we aren’t willing to accept the most progressive presidential platform we’ve seen in the US in DECADES because the man running on that platform is old and still supports a bunch of neolib garbage personally then we really do deserve what the fascists do to us because we’re behaving in a manner that denies the reality of the world around us…just like the Republicans.
Biden feels like a shit candidate…he doesn’t publicly confront issues like we want, and he usually acts like he thinks he’s living in the political landscape of the 90s.
That being said, he’s doing more progressive shit for progressive clauses than he gets credit for… even if it’s not enough by itself.
On police: he’s not defunding police across the country, but he’s fighting against qualified immunity, tying federal police funding to DEI and deescalation training
On social safety nets: he’s trying to increase housing assistance funding 4x, increase funding to struggling schools 3x, and setting aside funding to increase public transportation is low-income communities and working towards a . It’s not UBI, free houses, free healthcare, and banning cars, but it’s a start.
On Gaza…I won’t defend anything. I do think he’s privately pressuring Israel… and I suspect that Bebe is maybe being especially brutal in Palestine partially to enrage leftists in the US because he would prefer another Trump term while he finishes his genocide. For me, this is the most flavorful bit of that shit sandwich. He does support Ukraine, which is great, even if congress is keeping him from helping them as much as they need. Yes, I know… he’s shipping weapons to Israel without Congress, so why not Ukraine? It’s not impossible, but it is complicated…ad most things in today’s world are.
As long as Republicans and “democrats” like Manchin and Sinema (now an independent) hold large pluralities in Congress, his only options are to 1) work with them, 2) accomplish nothing, and 3) go full authoritarian…“Day 1 dictator” if you will. I don’t want to live in a tankie country any more than I want to live in a fascist one. Congress should make the rules, the President should execute them. It might feel good to give the right a taste of their own medicine in the short-term, but it won’t end well.
Fair enough, buddy. Look, I do hear where you are coming from, and I respect that. I appreciate you took the time to write this.
My point is that it is a bit of a trap, but you do seems aware of that. My other point is that we can do without the berating. It’s a personal decision. People who vote for Trump are the ones responsible for Trump getting elected, and nobody else.
Perhaps that’s true, but my point remains. Election day is about choosing POTUS, if you want to create a utopia you do that every other day with advocacy and donations.
I don’t think you shouldn’t vote, I just think there is no much use in it because there are both pros and cons that are more or less the same. If everybody voted for lesser of two evils everything would be the same as is now, if nobody voted it would be clear that we have no democracy at least. Either way, our effort should be placed in supporting party candidates, but in building our own communites and self-governing ourselves directly.
Well they are funded by same donors and vote similar laws. They do have different PR strategy but their actions on important issues are always the same.
It is however easier to explain to people that those in power do not have popular support if there are less people that voted for them. I am not saying it is a good idea, but I am trying to say that this goes both ways. As some user previously said, voting for lesser of two evils and voting for absolute support is also indistinguishable.
I don’t really understand. Suppose democracy as we know it is dismantled and we have an autocratic supreme leader eternal… will it be helpful to “explain to people that those in power do not have popular support”
This is also a flawed premise, as though casting a vote is supposed to be an expression of your self and your personal desires on path to utopia… it’s not. You’re voting for which asshole you want to be POTUS. That’s it. There is no lesser of two evils or tepid support or partial agreement. Do you want Chocolate, or do you want Strawberry.
You will have an autocratic supreme leader because its the logical conclusion of liberalism.
More like do you want shit or cyanide. How graceful are we to give you the choice. If you don’t like any of those option you’ll have cyanide. No this is not blackmail /s
That’s a really apt analogy, actually.
Shit is unpleasant and might make you sick. Cyanide will kill you.
Exactly. Go eat shit.
EDIT: ok my apologies, it was over the line. I’m sorry. I’m not here to flame. I’m pointing out you cannot get mad on people for not accepting any of the two options you give them, even if one of them is better than the other. That’s pretty much victim blaming/blackmail. “Either you vote for us or you deserve what the fascists are going to do to you”.
If it was an exceptional situation, I would understand, but it’s pretty much ingrained into the system at this point. It’s like that every four years. Being the lesser of two evil can only works so long. At the end of the day, it’s your responsibility not to be evil at all, otherwise do not complain people aren’t voting for you. You are letting the fascists win, not us
Well, to be fair, 1/2 of a two party system abandoning democracy is an exceptional situation… even if it was easy to see coming. I’m probably a bit older than most people on here, but this really has only been an issue since electing a POC broke the Republican Party. That was 16 years ago. We’ve had 4 presidential elections since then, and the last 3 of those have involved Trump, who is uniquely awful due to the cult-like behavior of his devotees.
I fully support folks voting for the best option during the primaries and at the local level…in fact, starting local is, I believe, the only way we’ll ever break the current duopoly. But if we aren’t willing to accept the most progressive presidential platform we’ve seen in the US in DECADES because the man running on that platform is old and still supports a bunch of neolib garbage personally then we really do deserve what the fascists do to us because we’re behaving in a manner that denies the reality of the world around us…just like the Republicans.
Biden feels like a shit candidate…he doesn’t publicly confront issues like we want, and he usually acts like he thinks he’s living in the political landscape of the 90s.
That being said, he’s doing more progressive shit for progressive clauses than he gets credit for… even if it’s not enough by itself.
On police: he’s not defunding police across the country, but he’s fighting against qualified immunity, tying federal police funding to DEI and deescalation training
On social safety nets: he’s trying to increase housing assistance funding 4x, increase funding to struggling schools 3x, and setting aside funding to increase public transportation is low-income communities and working towards a . It’s not UBI, free houses, free healthcare, and banning cars, but it’s a start.
On Gaza…I won’t defend anything. I do think he’s privately pressuring Israel… and I suspect that Bebe is maybe being especially brutal in Palestine partially to enrage leftists in the US because he would prefer another Trump term while he finishes his genocide. For me, this is the most flavorful bit of that shit sandwich. He does support Ukraine, which is great, even if congress is keeping him from helping them as much as they need. Yes, I know… he’s shipping weapons to Israel without Congress, so why not Ukraine? It’s not impossible, but it is complicated…ad most things in today’s world are.
As long as Republicans and “democrats” like Manchin and Sinema (now an independent) hold large pluralities in Congress, his only options are to 1) work with them, 2) accomplish nothing, and 3) go full authoritarian…“Day 1 dictator” if you will. I don’t want to live in a tankie country any more than I want to live in a fascist one. Congress should make the rules, the President should execute them. It might feel good to give the right a taste of their own medicine in the short-term, but it won’t end well.
Fair enough, buddy. Look, I do hear where you are coming from, and I respect that. I appreciate you took the time to write this.
My point is that it is a bit of a trap, but you do seems aware of that. My other point is that we can do without the berating. It’s a personal decision. People who vote for Trump are the ones responsible for Trump getting elected, and nobody else.
Perhaps that’s true, but my point remains. Election day is about choosing POTUS, if you want to create a utopia you do that every other day with advocacy and donations.
Yes, it would be helpful. People are less likely to rebel if they think majority supports the government.
Sorry this is just retarded.
Don’t vote so when you lose the election you can say there’s no support for the guy that won?
I don’t think you shouldn’t vote, I just think there is no much use in it because there are both pros and cons that are more or less the same. If everybody voted for lesser of two evils everything would be the same as is now, if nobody voted it would be clear that we have no democracy at least. Either way, our effort should be placed in supporting party candidates, but in building our own communites and self-governing ourselves directly.
Sorry mate, if you think both parties are more or less the same then I don’t think I can reason with you. Good day.
Well they are funded by same donors and vote similar laws. They do have different PR strategy but their actions on important issues are always the same.
A “PR strategy” is not how I would describe installing an autocratic dictator.
Both parties have autocratic dictator. Biden sidestepped congress to fund genocide in Gaza. Trump is no better of course.