What’s going on with remote work and cities? How are things changing?

I saw a lot of people move to cheaper places once the pandemic happened. Are people choosing having a house/stability over city living? Were bars/restaurants/events/general downtown things just something people cared about since they were “forced” to be in the city anyway (either commuting there or choosing to live near work)?

We’ve been seeing workplaces start to force people back to the office for a little while now too. Is part of this to encourage spending money in the local economy?

Personally I’m hybrid and enjoy living near the downtown of my city, but I also hate being forced into the office so it had me thinking about all these questions and how these values could effectively coexist.

  • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    So here’s the thing: our cities suck. For over seventy years now, we’ve been building and rebuilding our cities for cars, not people. There’s some other not car related problems, but a lot of the issues with our cities that make them terrible have at least one foot in car dependency. On top of that, they tend to be wildly expensive (the reasons for this vary, but generally trace back to too much demand for housing and not enough supply). Used to be, people put up with it for the sake of job opportunities, but remork work kind of blew that whole equation to hell. So, if the city sucks to live in, it’s unaffordable, and you don’t have to be there for your job, what would keep you there? Most people did that calculus and figured they’d be better off packing their bags for Star’s Hollow or Mayberry, where at least the houses are affordable.

    In some cases, you’ve got cities like San Francisco that have hitched their fortunes to being business centers first and places where people live second. Technology was always going to eat these places’ lunch in the long run, it just happened a lot faster than anyone expected because of COVID. So now, with these business cities lacking their daily bread and butter of hordes of commuters and visitors, businesses that depended on / supported those people are floundering. So far, the plan I’ve seen from San Francisco is “white-knuckle it and hope [magic] causes things to go back to normal”. In some cases, businesses got fat tax breaks on their campuses in exchange for the business that their workers would bring to the area, so cities are leaning on those businesses to end WFH, but that’s a band-aid of a fix if I ever saw one.

    Where do they go from here? If cities want to win people over, they have to realize that they no longer have a captive populace, and they have to make themselves into places that people actually want to live in. They need to remake themselves into environments that are built for humans instead of cars, provide affordable housing, allow for much smaller or more personal commerce (I’m thinking of Japan’s micro-shops and restaurants that line their alleys and streets), and hitch themselves to the needs of people before the needs of commercial real estate. I think it’s going to happen whether they like it or not due to market forces, the only question is whether they realize it now or flounder on for another two decades before they take the right actions.

    • AReliableGuySensei@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      In some cases, businesses got fat tax breaks on their campuses in exchange for the business that their workers would bring to the area, so cities are leaning on those businesses to end WFH, but that’s a band-aid of a fix if I ever saw one.

      I worry that this is the case for my office. It’s in a giant trendy building in a non-trendy (mildly sketchy) area and I think it’s on the list for gentrification. On top of this, there’s not enough housing and the area is pretty disconnected from other more populated areas. Public transit to get there is only slightly faster than walking from where I am (~40mins bus vs 1hr walk).

      I would love to see our downtown heal and build more housing, instead of trying to flip the next “up and coming” area of town.

  • robyoung@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    I’m in the UK and have been fully remote since before the pandemic. After the pandemic my family and I moved from London to Newcastle upon Tyne. What this move has made really clear is that not all cities are made equal.

    London is huge and expensive. In order to live in a nice area close enough to the centre to make commuting easy you’re looking at over £1M for a family home. It is an incredibly busy and fairly dirty city that has a culture of sticking your head down and not interacting with those around you. It also is a cultural powerhouse with some of the best restaurants, theatre and museums in the world. When we decided to move we were quite anxious we would miss this even though we couldn’t afford to actually make use of it very much.

    Newcastle has surpassed my expectations in every way. It is incredibly welcoming, people go out of their way to interact with you in the street. It is small enough that we can live in the city and have all the associated amenities yet not break the bank. I can cycle into town, pick something up from a shop and be back at my desk within an hour’s lunch break. Our cost of living is massively reduced and our quality of life has gone up tremendously. We have been to more theatre and museums since moving because we have more disposable income. And with the saved money we can afford to visit London and make use of its culture a few times a year.

    What I’m trying to get at with this big rambling story is that I hope one of the results of the pandemic is that smaller, more accessible and more affordable cities become more popular.

    • AReliableGuySensei@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      That sounds awesome! I’ve never been to the UK, but I also live in a city called London haha.

      Is the biking infrastructure decent? Biking is faster than the bus in almost all cases here, but the infrastructure is terrible so I’m afraid of getting hit by a car lol.

      Perhaps people moving around can help bring new ideas and shake things up, creating these smaller but fun cities.

  • mewpichu@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    I’m hybrid and I only go into the office once a week, though I live near the downtown area. We have (compared to the rest of the US) a fairly robust public transit system, a bustling tourism industry, and I think around 100 universities with the students that entails. Between students, tourists, and the extremely wealthy, I don’t see our downtown slowing down anytime soon.

    I’ve noticed that storefronts are cycling through more frequently than they did in the past, but empty storefronts are very quick to get rented back out. Rents are definitely unaffordable, but I’ve noticed that for people who actually live here, many are willing to live a little further out and take public transit in to experience downtown outside of needing to be here for work.

    Disclosure that this last point definitely doesn’t apply to me, but I’m also seeing a lot of people who actually go out of their way to go into the office now. With roommate situations and tiny apartments, I’m hearing more and more about people who are hybrid or fully remote, but actually enjoy a big working space with what might actually be more peace and quiet than they’d find at home.

  • Nechesh@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    I’ve been almost 100% remote since the pandemic started, and have moved across states to a more rural area.

  • sim_@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    We’re kind of the opposite of that trend, we’re moving smack dab into the middle of downtown.

    Our last two apartments were farther from downtown to save on rent and have an easier commute. For us, it hasn’t been worth it; it’s been the worst of both worlds. All the readily-available housing is still soulless corporate apartment complexes but without the nearby amenities. You have to drive to get anywhere and, as someone that hates driving, it’s a considerable deterrent (not to mention expensive, inconvenient, etc.). And since I only go into work once a week, the gentler commute is basically a nonissue.

    I’m looking forward to being able to walk places and perfectly happy to have a longer-than-ideal public transit commute since it’s only 1-2x a week. It’d be a harder decision if I was going in every day.

    • AReliableGuySensei@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      I get the driving thing so much! Even right now I schedule my errands for outside of rush hour because driving through traffic is just draining.

      My suburban friends are used to it, but as someone who has lived suburban and in/around downtown, I much prefer the random walkable trips.