Stellantis CEO says Chinese EVs are ‘possibly the biggest risk’ facing his carmaker and Tesla::The owner of the Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler brands aims to take on Chinese EVs while avoiding a “race to the bottom.”

    • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The argument is that it is NOT a free market, because the Chinese cars are government subsidized. A Government subsidized company is not part of a free market.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Yes. Absolutely, which makes it weird that Stellantis feel they need to warn Tesla, when they are very much beneficiaries in both USA and China.

            • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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              10 months ago

              Yes it is bad when those subsidies reduce the price of the car (or any other product) to half of what the competition is charging. This puts the competition out of business and gives consumers less options. Once the competition is gone, the price shoots up past what it would be initially because we have no other option. They’ve done this countless times in many industries.

              • LightDelaBlue@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                They just use the same weapon as the conçurency so . Tbf money need be spend in city made for human not cars but it’s a other story .

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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        10 months ago

        Well frankly Western governments should also be subsidizing electric car production. If they actually want to move towards net zero, like they claim, it would be reasonable to expect them to actually do something to encourage greener technologies. Currently all they’ve done is said that they like it very much, and oh look let’s build one or two wind farms.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Well frankly Western governments should also be subsidizing electric car production.

          They are, EU governments give incentives and tax reductions to all EVs. That way all benefit equally, disregarding where the car was made, but EU is NOT subsidizing manufacturers illegally.
          USA also has anti competitive regulation like China, but in USA you only get the benefits for cars made in USA, on top of that EV cars from China have a steep tax added.
          Of the 3 biggest markets in the world, only EU is playing fair. But all have EV incentives.

          • HauntingScience@programming.dev
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            10 months ago

            There is no “fair” under capitalism. What I read from this is that the EU has failed its citizens on promoting and helping regional brands to compete on the global market.

            When the global market speaks, you can either adapt or do nothing and complain. It’s clear which one is the path the EU is choosing.

            • hagelslager@feddit.nl
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              10 months ago

              Stellantis is mostly European, it’s FIAT and Peugot with their other brands. I’m fairly certain they get enough subsidies and tax breaks. That this Italian/American/French company is registered in the Netherlands shows that some tax-dodging is involved as well. I think it’s a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

              (Also, Volkswagen Group is the bigger European car manufacturer.)

            • hagelslager@feddit.nl
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              10 months ago

              Also, electric cars such as Polestar (Volvo’s EV brand, also Chinese these days) look much better than Tesla’s.

              • romkube@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Hard to not look better than a manufacturer with a self-centered facist at the top

            • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Obviously, since they have the benefit of EU incentives that benefit all, and Chinese subsidies that only benefit manufacturing in China.

              So I don’t know what you mean by “Even in Europe”?

              That doesn’t mean EU should subsidize illegally and against general EU policy. Instead they are investigating if China production needs to have an import tax. Which is the correct way to handle this.

          • asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Once China stops committing genocide and constantly threatening to take over other countries by force I’ll start caring about giving them equal tax breaks.

            • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Absolutely, I agree XI is as dangerous as Putin IMO, and we shouldn’t grant China any favors.

      • bionicjoey
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        10 months ago

        Capitalists suddenly stop loving corporate welfare when they aren’t the ones benefitting from it.

      • phoneymouse@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Isn’t that what the tax credits are?

        That said, it’s entirely reasonable for a country to levy tariffs on another country’s goods to support their own industries. Other countries do that to America.

    • Kawawete@reddeet.com
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      10 months ago

      Communists have it so much better, look at N.K., they’re hanging in there good

  • skozzii
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    10 months ago

    Elon Musk is the biggest risk to Tesla and the reason it’s going to fail.

  • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    No shit. They’re getting huge governmental help, openly steal from non-chinese companies, global trade is already structured around them, and they can utilise literal slave labour.

    • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      But most importantly, China is targeting a market that no other EV maker wants to go into first : Reasonably priced EVs.

      This guy doesn’t care about any of the above. He just doesnt want the EVs he sells to lose their incredibly high margins. If china comes in and swoops up a buyer at 22k then he loses one at 52k.

      That’s it. These vendors could take the legs out of China in the market by offering comparable cars at comparable prices, but they want all EVs to stay “luxury” instead. That’s China’s real threat. They are dropping the bottom out of the artificial high priced market with reasonably priced cars.

  • eskimofry@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    The risk is that he would actually have to compete instead of resting on the beach. It’s good that these people are sweating when some fire is placed under their butts in the form of competition.

  • Jakdracula@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    My next car will be electric, I have over 250k on my ice car and it’s only now just starting to show wear.

    I haven’t purchased an electric because of the price, but I’ll definitely buy a $22k Chinese should they arrive on these shores.

    • phillaholic@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      Read the article. It’s not crying. It’s acknowledgment of a new legitimate competitor like Japan and South Korea became. It’s a call to arms for US manufacturers to get better. This is pro consumer.

  • erwan@lemmy.ml
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    10 months ago

    Last time I checked BYD prices, they were not cheaper than other EVs.

    What am I missing?

  • Snapz@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Your own inept management in the face of obvious consumer demand for a cheap, basic EV for all is the biggest risk. Fucking out of touch idiots.

    • Grangle1@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      I hear you, but this is Lemmy, we’re all supposed to be CCP shills and think free markets are the worst thing ever.

  • Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
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    10 months ago

    I wanna say just compete better, but the only way to do that is lower employee wages and reduce regulations.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          It’s very difficult to compete on price against companies that are heavily subsidized by the government.
          Tesla however also enjoy those subsidies because they manufacture cars for EU in China. So it’s kind of puzzling why Stellantis would think this is a concern for Tesla too, when they are one of the beneficiaries.

          • thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            Probably because BYD recently overtook Tesla as the world’s largest EV manufacturer.

            If/when that realisation hits Wall Street, Tesla shares are going to take a massive hit.

            • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Yes BYD has surpassed Tesla on equal terms, or rather terms that actually benefit Tesla.
              Tesla enjoys massive benefits in both USA selling EV quotas to other makers, and enjoying tax benefits and subsidies on top. In China they enjoy the same benefits of near zero tax, and benefits for selling EVs.
              Tesla is surpassed by BYD now, but that will only get worse if EU regulate Chinese made cars.
              Again I don’t see how the warning against Chinese subsidized cars is relevant to Tesla. Except the warning could be that Tesla will lose even more market share if they lose their double ended benefits in both USA and China, that clearly make them more competitive in EU and globally too.

        • Zrybew@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          That’s true for every consumer product. The key here is segmentation and (re)positioning.

          Today cellphones are the cheapest they have ever been. Still, iPhone was never more expensive.

          BYD and cia are not only building a cheaper product, they’re also building better ones at their price range.

          • Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            iPhones are not better product than other phones though, so building a better product wouldn’t matter in that example.

            They’re building the only ones at that price range because other than Tesla, BYD is the only producer that builds their own batteries.

        • Suspiciousbrowsing@kbin.melroy.org
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          10 months ago

          It’s not an apple with apple comparison though. People are willing to pay a higher price for EV when factoring in reduced maintenance costs, charging and ?? environmental benefit.

          • Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            Wealth inequality is growing worldwide, many of us cannot afford higher priced products when it comes to large purchases like cars and that’s not going to change anytime soon.

            A phone as a luxury good, yeah it’s expensive but do-able. A non-cheap EV is like 10x the price of a phone however.

            • Suspiciousbrowsing@kbin.melroy.org
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              10 months ago

              Eh, I wouldn’t classify a phone as a luxury good. Id also say a non-cheap EV is more like 50-60 times a phone. But there’s definitely a gap in society for those that can buy new cars, let alone new EVs

    • bionicjoey
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      10 months ago

      Tariffs work as well. But then we’d have to start manufacturing stuff for ourselves rather than getting other countries to do it.