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- Texas
- Oklahoma
- Louisiana
- (tie) South Carolina
- (tie) Alabama
- Missouri
- Indiana
- Tennessee
- Arkansas
- Florida
I personally agree with this list. But, we have to be pragmatic here. This is what CNBC says they did:
“The study measures quality of life issues including crime, health care, childcare and health care, as well as inclusive policies on discrimination and reproductive rights.”
See, the last two skew this study. People in these shit hole states (not all, but at least enough of the voting public) don’t want inclusive policies or reproductive rights. So, to them, this metric is backwards. They would argue that living in California or New York was way more terrible because of the brown people and gays.
This isn’t exactly a scientific study. It’s taking objective data to reach a subjective conclusion. Neat headline though.
Edit: many if them are arguing exactly that in this thread. With a nice dose of racism and misogyny thrown in. Nice. I love when shit comes full circle.
I mean… if you want to move to one of these states as potentially any type of person (ie. perhaps not white and straight) then the inclusive policies are not an optional feature. If you’re a woman, having the government meddle in your health decisions can actually be life threatening.
For white, straight folks, and especially males, it’s easy to think these other two factors just subjectively improve life, but that’s because they already have a baseline level of respect and power in society.
Based on your take, I’d guess you’re straight, white and male.
Granted, I’m also straight, white, and male… But there are a hell of a lot of women who support abortion bans AND adore Mr “Grab 'em by the Pussy!”
I know one who doesn’t believe God would allow a dangerous, nonviable pregnancy to take hold in (or in the case of ectopic pregnancies, outside of) a woman’s uterus. She just doesn’t believe something as sacred as a uterus can have that kind of flaw built into it.
And even if you could convince her dangerous pregnancies were real, I think @[email protected] was saying that Republican women would not agree that their ability to survive an ectopic pregnancy is good or worth it if it also helps the “sluts” they despise to have more “convenience abortions.”
Surviving might seem pretty good to you and I, but that doesn’t make that ability objectively desirable to the people voting against their own interests. And they would be offended if their access to healthcare was deemed “better” in a quality-of-life metric than access to a set of theocratic restrictions.
They would tell you, “well I’m happier. Liberals think they can speak for me just because I’m a woman and my opinion doesn’t matter! But if they asked me, I’d tell them I would prefer to live in a place where the sanctity of life was valued! They’d have to censor me and edit me out of their videos because I wouldn’t support their narrative!”
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I know one who doesn’t believe God would allow a dangerous, nonviable pregnancy to take hold in (or in the case of ectopic pregnancies, outside of) a woman’s uterus. She just doesn’t believe something as sacred as a uterus can have that kind of flaw built into it.
But I guarantee that the second that she (or any other woman with similar views) had a pregnancy that threatened their life, they’d opt for an abortion ASAP. They’ll rationalize that their abortion was justified and blessed by God, but all those other abortions are just “liberal sluts who want to kill babies” or something.
So what are we supposed to do to get them to stop choosing to be horrible like this? Can’t do nothing… ~Cherri
Yup, I am, but if it’s fair to say that the positive things about Florida don’t count because those positive things exist in other states then it seems to me that it’s fair to say that prejudice against minorities should count against those other states too. Florida does not have exclusive rights to mistreatment of minorities. In fact I’m pretty sure that exists in all 50 states.
My only point, was addressing the thought that a poster said he felt sorry for people living in those states (Florida in this case) and all I was saying was it wasn’t like we all just get up every morning and fail to function because we are all so overwhelmed by how bad it is where we live. We have running water in Florida.
Reproductive rights is healthcare.
Yep. It is. That’s sorta the point though. “Worst” is subjective. Personally? I’d never move to one of those 10 places. But, a lot of them think that the lack of reproductive rights is a good thing, not a bad thing.
I don’t think that… But, a lot of folks in America do.
Just not a majority anywhere. Minority rule baby!
Did I mention majorities?
Cool, popular and correct are not synonyms
There’s only one thing worse than mob rule by a majority. And that’s authoritarian rule by a minority. So it doesn’t mater.
Lol that’s just what every populist jackass says to avoid actually defending their horrific views.
Abortion isn’t a right.
Only because the US doesn’t consider healthcare a right because we’re backwards af.
Healthcare isn’t a right because a right cannot be reliant on service provided by others. That’s just an entitlement given out by shitty governments. Not to mention that abortion isn’t Healthcare
Your right to a jury trial depends on the service of your fellow citizens, as well as the judge, etc.
Your right to vote depends on the service of many volunteers to work the polls, count votes, etc.
Rights are granted and protected by governments; whether they require a service is irrelevant.
I disagree that either of those is a right. They’re just procedural rules regarding government power.
I think the premise is that the laws on reproductive rights have managed to effect the overall availability of health care. So it’s not that the laws are bad, but some of them are written in such a way that it creates problems, or potential problems, for doctors. So Dr’s are overall not choosing to get into situations where the law could make them liable and are choosing to set up practice in other locations where the government overreach isn’t as bad.
The affirmative discrimination laws are generally hard to write well so they tend to add restrictions to people and businesses that are unintended.
It seems that those discrimination and reproductive rights are no longer ‘soft’ issues and this poll is acknowledging that.
Inclusivity is bringing the west back 100 years
Pretty sure the west wasn’t all that inclusive in 1923.
How dare they have inclusivity and care what people think and hear them out for their own ideas and inventions and bringing in more competition to a space. I’d rather have monopolies and monoculture so everything can be Grey and not complex, man that would bring so much innovation in the country! :D
Obvious troll
explain
Explanation: 8 day old troll accoint
As someone born in Texas and now resides in Oklahoma I agree with this study.
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As someone from West Virginia I’m stunned we didn’t make the list. McDowell county is hell on earth. The northern part of the state really does hard carry the rest of it.
Economic and health factors in this ranking are severely downplayed in favor of hot social issues.
sweats in Georgia
The difference two years makes
Moved from TX to DMV in Feb and it’s night and day here. Love the idea of Texas but the reality didn’t come close.
Where is DMV?
DC Maryland Virginia area.
Don’t get me wrong it not a utopia but much better. I miss Bucees and HEB. There’s also just as many bad drivers here, and the speed limits are LOOOOOW. But folks are on the whole nicer (which to me is weird as I heard folks here weren’t as nice as in Texas). And where I used to live 4 hours would get you to Beaumont and here it’ll get you through three states.
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Spot on assessment from what I have experienced so far here.
I’ve never even been there. I believe you on the nicer, it’s probably genuine and not the superficial “How y’all doing?”
what was your experience like?
If you want a good chuckle, here are the states that they say have the best economies. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/13/these-10-states-are-running-americas-best-economies-for-residents.html
Included in the top 10 are:
- Florida
- Texas
- Tennessee
- South Carolina
- Indiana
Best economies for CEOs.
One would only think that’s surprising or funny if they assumed that “best economy” and “best states to live in” necessarily have a one to one overlap. While I can see there being some overlap, l think we all know that business-friendly policies that foster economic growth almost always come with a suite of larger demographic costs.
The key is to seek balance between what’s good for business and what’s good for the public, and in that light it shouldn’t really come as a surprise that some of the most business-friendly states are also the worst places to live.
Isn’t the inflation rate in Florida the highest in the nation?
So basically this is just a “10 states where you can’t abort your unborn baby and men can’t compete against women in sports” list.
I know you have the ability to read. Go use it instead of posting crap like this. ~Cherri
Go read the article. It’s basically a “who’s who” of stricter abortion and “gender affirming surgery” laws, all other factors be damned. Education? Pfft, who needs it. Infrastructure and technology? Irrelevant. Business quality and work opportunities? As if you’d care about that.
Red states are shit holes, more news at 11.
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Yeah, thanks for that, assholes.
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Mortality, not morality. We’re talking about death rates.
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And they are subject to the mental poison endemic to that region. It takes a long time and a lot of effort to purge that evil. I can speak from personal experience. It never goes away and it is a constant struggle to shout down that early indoctrination.
Don’t believe everything you read. Yes a lot of that is true, but think about your daily life. Do you think all of that stuff really effects who your friends are, things you do with your family, the house you live in? The kind of things that effect your daily life, probably effect it no matter where you live (increased food prices, interest rates, etc.). Plus there’s hope that one day DeSantis will be gone and maybe a lot of those things will turn around. In the mean time…
I freely admit I’m sick of living in Florida, mostly for the reasons in the article and the dreadful heat, yes. But there’s a lot of good in Florida too. We have year round outdoor activities, regular launches into outer space, theme parks, pretty good beaches, no state income tax, lots of sunshine and hey at least were not Mississippi.
Just remember the source and the criteria used to make that judgment. Every place has pluses and minuses.
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The culture war bullshit is doing significant harm to the red states. They’re alienating significant segments of the population that, you know, contribute to society, and the only benefit they get in exchange is approval from conservatives, but according to polls the transphobes are a minority even within the right wing.
Do you think all of that stuff really effects who your friends are, things you do with your family, the house you live in?
Literally yes. How is that something you’re even questioning?
probably effect it no matter where you live
Of course, but the point here is that some places are effected more than others. My state has very low unemployment, and very low homeless rates. That doesn’t mean there’s no homelessness and no unemployment, but it’s many times less than some other states. Is that a matter of intentional state policy? Probably not. But you are statistically less likely to be homeless or unemployed here. Making matters worse, the median income in my state is $10k higher than the median income of Florida (basically a 1/3rd increase), and the median household income is $20k higher (a 35% increase). That’s nearly the equivalent of having an entire additional income in a household in Florida.
no state income tax
My state also doesn’t have one of those, and we don’t get leveled by hurricanes at an increasing rate while the salt content in our water table rises.
at least were not Mississippi
Compared to my state, mathematically there’s almost nothing separating you from Mississippi. Your population is higher but your households are just as poor. That’s a concern, given the number of shockingly wealthy people that live in Floridian cities. In other words, there isn’t much upward mobility in either state.
No state income tax means the richest people scoot by and the poorest pay the biggest share of their income on shitloads of tolls, the highest food prices I’ve ever seen, retail taxes, and insurance costs that would make your asshole pucker up the second the agent spit out the quote
If you have a lot of money and like poor people to suffer super regressive taxes, then it sounds like a fantastic place
Not Mississippi? You’re Mississippi plus tourism and a different name. That’s the difference
Oh and if you want a theme park that is actually fun, Ohio is the way to go
It’s almost like whether it impacts your daily life depends on two factors (1) are you a targeted minority or (2) you are not a targeted minority but know anyone who is or care about them to any degree.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. It’s like when people talk about “third world countries” as if they’re unlivable shitholes that couldn’t possibly have any positive aspects. Like you point out, there are many aspects to life that aren’t directly tied to politics and generally the day-to-day really isn’t that bad. It reeks of elitism and it’s alienating.
This could be another huge talking point for Democrats, but once again, this great opportunity to ding Republican governance is going to be missed since Democrats are so utterly incompetent to sell their successes and attack their opponents.
The inflation rate has fallen down to 3%, which is one of the lowest in the industrialized world right now. Have there been Democrats all over the news selling that success? No, of course not. Gotta keep those wins well hidden, dontchaknow!
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No one thinks we will ever change those in the orange cult. Like zombies, they are long gone and collectively barely have one functioning brain cell.
Dems need to sell their wins to get their base excited - I’m so sick of the brasè attitude that most Dems have regardless of who their candidate is. They could have the most perfect candidate and they are always looking for someone else. They also need to get some independents on board. Neither party can win an election without getting some non-affiliated to vote for them.
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UBI is a joke and will only stand in the way of unity. To think the Dems should somehow rally around something that will never, ever happen is a pointless distraction. Might as well rally around the tooth fairy or unicorn and waste more time and energy instead of going after real issues.
So what are we supposed to do? How do we get things to improve on a national scale in any significant way for workers? ~Cherri
Support politicians who are brave enough to admit that we need to tax the rich and corporations at a higher rate, support programs that will bring manufacturing back to the US (no other industry is as bog of a job multiplier than manufacturing), support programs which lower the cost of entry for higher education.
Hand outs do not work. Not only would they never, ever pass Congress, they shouldn’t even be considered. UBI is a goddamn joke pushed by those who smoke too much weed and have no goddamn clue about life.
Corporate taxes shouldn’t be raised because corporate taxes are overwhelmingly regressive.
Hand outs absolutely do work, and while I’m not on the UBI train, all welfare programs should basically just give cash instead of stamps/benefits/etc
You’re basically just trying to sell doom & gloom to discourage people from wanting what is eminently attainable. Your reasons for doing so are your own, but one wonders if you’re just thoroughly indoctrinated, or if you have some other interest at stake.
Name ONE country which has implemented UBI successfully.
Many studies are ongoing, some with very positive results. Of course, they’re being hamstrung at every turn by conservative shitheads who want us all at the mercy of capitalism.
Amazing! The entire world is stupid, (insert as many additional derogatory terms as you wish). Except for you, of course!
Good on you mate!
True for values where “the entire world” is “Republicans and The Military (also Cops)”. So basically… false.
Twist the words, add words, deflect from the point, anything to advance your “superior” intellect. I see what you did.
Good on you mate!
P.S. It didn’t work.
Go back to reddit “mate.”
You can’t handle the truth can you mate? Amusing
Except none of this is swaying any republican. Some of these states are on the list because they pass exclusive legislation, seemingly overlooking any benefits otherwise.
No one cares about swaying hard-core Republicans. They are basically a lost cause. It’s about showing the entire rest of the country that Republicans can’t govern - aim at swaying those in the middle.
None of the states listed are surprises nor the fact they are all Republican lead states either.
How in the world did Mississippi not make this list?
Live in mississippi, it should be #1, like it always is for shitty metrics.
Fun mississippi fact for today, if you own an electric or hybrid car you have to pay extra taxes.
A lot of places do that, they say its because they don’t pay as much gas tax (which is true), which generally go toward maintaining roads and such.
I think we all know it doubles as a “liberal tax” though.
The only reasonable tax I could see being applied to an electric car is a weight tax, but that should be for all cars, not just electric. If your cars weighs more, you should pay more, especially at the city level.
More weight means it produces more wear and tear on roads. Not to mention they are more deadly, even at low speeds.
But I doubt this would happen in Mississippi lol
While true, it should be proportional to the damage.
There’s a reason why semis, construction, and plows deal 99% of the damage to highways lol.
While you can say everyone benefits from semi transportation… There are tons of people who’d prefer proper rail transit upgrades and infrastructure… So they’ll shoot down rail upgrades while also subsidizing truck damage lol.
One analysis contends freight-hauling trucks cause 99 percent of wear-and-tear on US roads, but only pay for 35 percent of the maintenance.
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2017/06/22/murphys-law-how-trucks-destroy-our-roads/
Remember when Republicans tried to get bicyclists to pay their fair share of road damage? Lol.
Fun fact. WA is looking into getting rid of gas taxes and imposing a per mile driven tax due at registration.
Lived there for decades, have to agree.
You have very few rights as a worker. Pay is dogshit, even for better jobs. Life there sucks even if you’re well off. Doesn’t matter if you’re rich, poor, left, right, black or white, it’s gon’ suck donkey balls being there.
Still made the best of my time there but now I’ve moved to Northern Europe and the difference is night and day.
Wisconsin here. I have to pay extra each year for a hybrid car :/
Because it’s #11
Edit: Apparently it is #0
I also thought Florida would be much higher.
Weird it’s the south east whodathunkit.
Of course Indiana is one of them. Fuck.
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I actually moved back to Indiana from California after growing up here. And I’m glad I did it because my daughter gets to see her grandparents and I got to spend time with my father before he died. I also get to support my mother now that she’s in her 80s. But I really hate a lot about this state.
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Every year I get a little bit happier to live in a major metro area in Indiana so that I dodge the majority experience of the state.
But man it still doesn’t help me feel better about my state. I wish rural Hoosiers would wake up and realize they could have it better
Some of us left here aren’t like them 🥺
Stuck in Missouri taking care of my grandparents and my wife’s parents. I’ve been wanting to move out of this shithole since I was 13. Now, I have to worry about reproductive issues with my high risk wife as it seems like we are hunkering down here entering our 30s.
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Facts:
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Alabama number one exporter of Air Quality.
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All other states have inferior Air Quality.
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All other states are run by little girls.
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Savage
What a shocking revelation.
Where is WV? We are always on lists like this
I gotta say while I’m not happy with Texas decisions and there’s a lot of bs there it doesn’t seem even as bad as Florida much less Alabama and Mississippi.
So reading through this is a bit surprising. I hadn’t been paying as much attention to some of these state based issues. It looks like the argument of the article is that despite strong historic economic numbers some of the recent steps taken by states have created challenges for businesses.
It seems that the knock down effect of reproductive health laws in a restriction in the number of practicing doctors per state. So it is not exactly the law that is the issue, but the fact that the ratio of doctors to patients is going in an adverse direction. The article is arguing that the extent is enough to create challenges for citizens in Texas. That seems like a sound premise, basically its harder to get and see a doctor because fewer doctors are moving to Texas compared to the growing population.
It seems that the states that were less of economic powerhouses to begin with could have negative effects with less strict laws since they didn’t start from as strong a position.
The rest of it seems to be based on how accessible child care and health insurance are. If you want families and not just labor those resources can greatly reduce the need for high wages.
I’d briefly seen the big fails, like the Texas power grid and the bans on investment funds taking climate change into account. There was also that thing where Florida decide it was time to kill Disney.
Not moving the office buildings to Florida was a MUCH bigger deal to Disney that it appeared. The cost of 1-2 billion was going to be offset by MUCH lower cost of living for employees,(less pay as well) favorable taxes an the sale of super valuable real estate in California. It was very likely structured to be a net positive for the company. So I think that this is basically the core of the article. Even what should be on paper good deals are now in questions because of the state policies.
Hey this is pretty level headed and what you’re saying makes sense. Please check out lemmy.world/c/moderate_politics we’d love to have you!
subscribed. I’m not sure I’m moderate, but I’ll chime in when I get the time.
I moved from MO to IL and never looked back
The main question is imho what’s the cause - are they they worst to live in because of their politics? Or do people there vote populists because they are so unhappy with their lives
The American South has been reeling since the years following the Civil War. The economic strength of the Southern States was so tied up in agricultural slavery. When that system was dismantled it left a big hole in the fabric of those states socially, economically, politically. All of that resentment never went away it just changed forms over the years and turned into law and public policy. It’s easy to forget that the Civil War was not that long ago, not in terms of human social development in any case.
It doesn’t help that we elected qn apologist who decided to welcome them back with open arms not so long after the Civil War. Instead of adapting to the situation they were in, post-war, they ended up sucking on the feds that while they got equal representation as the non-slave states.
That’s not what happened. Johnson became president when Lincoln was assassinated and at that time the president and VP didn’t run on a single ticket and instead the VP slot went to the presidential runner-up, who, of course, was from the opposition. So we didn’t really elect Johnson; we elected Lincoln, but John Wilkes Booth happened and he fucked us for generations.
Hmm, for some reason I thought it happened much later. Apologies!
Well the guy we elected after Johnson was Grant, and while he was an outstanding General, he was nowhere near as capable in the presidency where his authority, while great, was very different in kind from that of a military commander.
There’s an argument to the effect that Grant was largely an absentee president who preferred to spend his days drinking as opposed to actually being the chief executive.
I’m not a historian and don’t know enough about his presidency to have a strong opinion on it, but there’s no question that the policies that Johnson put in place, that allowed reconstruction to go so badly off the rails, weren’t competently addressed by the Grant administration, so in that respect your original point is not entirely incorrect.
He also badly botched, mostly through a lack of attention, Indian affairs with regard to the powerful plains tribes. It was probably inevitable that said tribes would eventually be subjugated, but it certainly could and should have been handled more humanely.
The article explicitly states one of the evaluation criteria is as follows:
So we consider inclusiveness in state laws by measuring protections against discrimination, as well as voting rights.
I’m guessing this is what led to the outcome the post title is highlighting.
The article explains each position.
They’re listed as the worst because this is basically just a political hit piece. They’ve defined the criteria for “best” to align with policy the democrats push and Republicans don’t. It’s hardly anything except a list of states that democrats agree with (or in the case of the bottom 10, don’t agree with)
THAT’S NOT VERY INCLUSIVE OF YOU
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This is the hottest take. Which OANN show did you see this on?
It’s in their own methodology:
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/15/how-we-are-choosing-americas-top-states-for-business-in-2023.html
We look at inclusiveness in state laws, including protections against discrimination of all kinds
And with surveys showing a sizeable percentage of women considering reproductive rights in deciding where they are willing to live and work, we factor abortion laws into this category as well.
That category is the 4th highest weighted category in their methodology, 0.4% behind “Economy”. So basically if abortion isn’t legal or if “gender affirming healthcare” isn’t legal, you lose in the 4th largest category and will be down the bottom.
Look at the list and their “weaknesses”
10: Inclusiveness, Reproductive Rights
9: Crime, Inclusiveness, Reproductive Rights, Health Care
8: Inclusiveness, Crime, Voting Rights
7: Childcare, Inclusiveness
6: Voting Rights, Reproductive Rights, Crime
5 & 4: Voting Rights, Worker Protections, Inclusiveness, Health / Health, Worker Protections, Inclusiveness, Crime, Voting Rights
3: Child Care, Crime, Reproductive Rights
2: Reproductive Rights, Health, Voting Rights
1: Reproductive Rights, Health, Voting Rights, Worker Protections, Inclusiveness
Literally every single one of them is inclusiveness and/or reproductive rights, ie. Gender Affirming Care and Abortion.
They even go so far as to pretty obviously say this is why they are the bottom 10 - on every one of them they list only their Life, Health & Inclusion Score. Nothing about the Economy score, the Infrastructure score, or the Workforce score. Nothing about cost of business score, business friendliness score, or Education score - just “Life, Health, and Inclusion Score” as if that’s the only thing that matters.
Also - what is an “OANN show”?
That category is the 4th highest weighted category in their methodology, 0.4% behind “Economy”. So basically if abortion isn’t legal or if “gender affirming healthcare” isn’t legal, you lose in the 4th largest category and will be down the bottom.
Where it fucking belongs.
Who cares if there are no jobs, schools, technology or services or infrastructure as long as you can get abortions and gender affirming care, right?
Who cares if there are no jobs, schools, technology or services or infrastructure
Well, as long as the state is bigoted enough, you don’t seem to care about education, services, or infrastructure. Republican efforts to undermine education by undermining public schools in favor of vouchers for christian schools that teach creationism, miseducating students about the country’s history and banning books under the guise of “stopping woke” put the lie to your bogus handwringing about education. Services? At least one of those states didn’t even pass the medicaid expansion because they were happy to watch poor people suffer than accept money from a program championed by a black president. Infrastructure? Texas has a shitty failing power grid because the alternative involves accepting national standards that might have kept the damned grid from freezing over.
Don’t pretend to care about any of those things. Your sole criterion for a good state is if the state government makes sure “those people” know their place.
banning books under the guise of “stopping woke”
Pre-teens should not be given books talking about anal sex, oral sex, masturbation, and telling them that if they like stereotypical girl things they’re probably a girl trapped in a boys body. I’m sorry but anyone that thinks that’s fine probably belongs on a watch list.
What “place” do you think I want “those people” to know?
Btw I’m not American and I don’t live in America. Don’t ever want to either. I’m just interested in politics all over the world and aren’t afraid of voicing my opinion.
