• jaeme@lemmy.ml
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      8 months ago

      I don’t know if this is suppossed to be a meta-commentary/joke or not. I never said both of those things.

      China is more suited for space coordination because of its productive capacity and cooperation with other nations. China will not seek to “own” outer space but to instead integrate space travel as a way to benefit itself and the world. China can care for its citizens, the US is quickly losing the ability/will to do so.

      Why not try to reflect on the fact that the US only cares about space travel when China seems to overtake them ever so slightly?

      I don’t care what you really feel about China, but to interpret my support for China leading the space field as ignorance is just projection.

        • intelshill
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          8 months ago

          Is China shipping billions of dollars in weapons to Israel as they, in 3 months, have dwarfed Ukrainian civilian casualties over 2 years? No? Well…

          Did China instigate a coup of Pakistan’s democratically-elected leader? No?

          Is China the only country voting against the Right to Food pursuant to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Article 25)? No?

          Hm.

          • drktrts
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            8 months ago

            Oh look! Whataboutisms! Even when called out directly… It’s laughable

            Just for posterity’s sake, my previous comment

            • intelshill
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              8 months ago

              Your claim is that China is just as ill-intentioned. It’s not whataboutism to point out how that statement is wrong, because you brought that statement up yourself.

              • drktrts
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                8 months ago

                It is, because China also has many things we can point to, which you don’t even mention. I already acknowledged the US’s imperialist actions, there was no need to elaborate on it, that isn’t disproving me. If you were discussing in good faith, there would be no need to further elaborate on an agreed fact. The burden is on you to prove to me that China is not like that.

                • intelshill
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                  8 months ago

                  You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. It’s a bit harder because I’ve already provided counterarguments, but here’s another one for good measure:

                  There are 25000 mosques in Xinjiang, one for every 500 Muslims. In comparison, there are 3000 mosques in the entire US.

                  • drktrts
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                    8 months ago

                    I’m not going to engage in bad faith arguments.

                    But I’ll clarify something with this statement just to elucidate your not so clever attempt at misinformation.

                    1. There is a way larger population in china (25m China vs 3.5m US)
                    2. Per-capita, there is greater capacity for Muslims in the United States to attend a mosque (1150 US vs 1000 China)
                    3. This is not a substantive example of anything we’re talking about since it doesn’t acknowledge the extent of freedoms or treatment of the Muslim populations in the respective countries. We could talk at length about the active genocide of the Uygher population in China, but I’m sure you have “reasonable explanations” for that, just as many Americans have “reasonable explanations” for their active support of Israel’s actions on the Palestinian people.

                    Let’s just accept that both nations are pretty messed up. We don’t need to do a “who’s worse”. But these bad faith arguments are just intellectually a waste of time.

          • drktrts
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            8 months ago

            That’s just terribly false. All we have to do is spend 10 minutes looking at China’s official statements towards some of their active international intentions to see proof otherwise. This comment will likely be deleted because it doesn’t follow your narrative (just like my previous), but your statements aren’t convincing anyone.

          • NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social
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            8 months ago

            Are these the same global south countries that China is building things at prices they know they can’t pay back so that they can seize them later or the China that is currently trying to take over huge parts of the ocean that belong to others under international law?

      • WraithGear@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Can we apply this methodology of Chinas in how they treat their neighbors, and “wont seek to “own” outer-space” and do so at the benefit of the world and compare it to how they treat Taiwan, Hong Kong, and international waters? Oh to shreds you say?

        • intelshill
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          8 months ago

          No one in the region considers the South China Sea to be international waters.

          Everyone just disputes who’s waters they should be. Don’t talk about things you know nothing about.

            • intelshill
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              8 months ago

              It’s the same concept where not even Taiwan claims they’re a sovereign and independent state: they’re the rightful government of all of China (including Mongolia).

                • intelshill
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                  8 months ago

                  Not even the British considered Tibet to be independent lol

                  • WraithGear@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    And yet the argument was never “do these places need to be independent?” But “can China be trusted with dominion over space based on how they treat international waters and their neighbors.” You will notice that i did not specify any particular action or event. But you are already here with excuses for events and actions. Hence me mentioning that you are making my argument for me. Because you did that i already know, you know i am right to not trust china, and also you have a vested interest in me not being right.

      • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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        8 months ago

        China will not seek to “own” outer space

        Let’s see China get out of other nations’ ocean space first and then we can talk about outer space.